What does the Book Of Mormon bring . . . .

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Not true. None of the witnesses ever retracted their claims about having seen the plates. Several were kicked out of the Mormon Church, but they held fast to what they claimed. Several believed that Joseph Smith became a “fallen prophet” but they insisted that he was initially a prophet and their later expulsion from the Church had no effect upon their witness of the plates.

Alma
well at the very least some “clarified” that they saw it with their “spiritual eyes”. Some also claimed a testimony of other prophets and scriptures as well. That speaks to teh alreadey questionable credibility of a clsoe group of family and friends.

I want to know why they thought Joseph Smith a fallen prophet? could it be becasue he was practicing polygamy in direct violation of his own canonized scriptures?

Here is what a memeber of the LDS first presidency said:
xmission.com/~country/reason/lawint2.htm

(trash the site all you want but this article is well documented as the authentic statement of William Law.)
 
. . . . .that is morally superior to the bible?
I really don’t want a Mormon bash thread here, because I was hoping for a Mormon to answer the question.

I know nothing of Mormonism. So I ask:

Does the book of Mormon teach anything about morals and love for fellow man that the Jesus didn’t teach?

I asked the same thing about Mohammed and got a lot of dead air.

Its a simple, sincere question.
 
The Book of Mormon claims to BE what Jesus taught. it does teach morals and love for fellow man. it copies from the bible some of the exact things that Jesus taught. does that answer your question?
 
The only profitable parts of the Book of Mormon are the parts that were lifted from the bible. I always thought it was strange that the Book of Mormon prophets quoted St. Paul several centuries before he was born.

Paul
 
I really don’t want a Mormon bash thread here, because I was hoping for a Mormon to answer the question.

I know nothing of Mormonism. So I ask:

Does the book of Mormon teach anything about morals and love for fellow man that the Jesus didn’t teach?

I asked the same thing about Mohammed and got a lot of dead air.

Its a simple, sincere question.
The Book of Mormon does teach about the reasons for Jesus’ sacrifice and about how it is made available to mankind. (2 Nephi 2 and 2 Nephi 9) It also provides a significantly revised version of the Sermon on the Mount that you might want to see. (byteline.blogspot.com/2006_07_01_archive.html Look under the title “How Did He Do It?”) The Book of Mormon account deletes over 300 words and adds 328 new words.

Alma
 
The Book of Mormon claims to BE what Jesus taught. it does teach morals and love for fellow man. it copies from the bible some of the exact things that Jesus taught. does that answer your question?
Yes, thank you very much.
 
The Book of Mormon does teach about the reasons for Jesus’ sacrifice and about how it is made available to mankind. (2 Nephi 2 and 2 Nephi 9) It also provides a significantly revised version of the Sermon on the Mount that you might want to see. (byteline.blogspot.com/2006_07_01_archive.html Look under the title “How Did He Do It?”) The Book of Mormon account deletes over 300 words and adds 328 new words.

Alma
Thanks for your thoughtful response.

I found your take on Sola Scriptura particularly interesing in the “The Book of Mormon, Another Testament of Jesus Christ - The Word of God As Well” section.
 
The only profitable parts of the Book of Mormon are the parts that were lifted from the bible. I always thought it was strange that the Book of Mormon prophets quoted St. Paul several centuries before he was born.

Paul
I’m not sure I understand. Sorry to be thick.
 
The Book of Mormon teaches essentially the same doctrines that the Bible does, it doesn’t add anything new that I’m aware of. In fact that is the oddest thing about the Book of Mormon, it actually doesn’t teach Mormonism at all, but is more in line with traditional Christianity.

Although I always felt the slaying of Laban was little more than outright murder, especially since two nations ended up dwindling in unbelief anyway.
 
The Book of Mormon teaches essentially the same doctrines that the Bible does, it doesn’t add anything new that I’m aware of. In fact that is the oddest thing about the Book of Mormon, it actually doesn’t teach Mormonism at all, but is more in line with traditional Christianity.
You mean that things like a pre-mortal existence for mankind, the necessity of the Fall, theosis, an open canon, an anthropomorphic God (or should I say theopomorphic man?), universal resurrection, the translation of the apostle John, that Adam and Eve worshipped Jesus Christ, that it is evil to baptize infants, and Jesus appeared to inhabitants of the americas are not Mormon doctrines or that they’re all doctrines of traditional Christianity?

Alma
 
It is interesting that you claim the BoM teaches the pre-mortal existence of man. If you are thinking of Alma 13:3, it teaches no such thing. Like Jeremiah 1:5, it declares God’s foreknowledge of each man, not man’s pre-mortal existence.
3 And this is the manner after which they were ordained—being called and prepared from the foundation of the world according to the foreknowledge of God, on account of their exceeding faith and good works; in the first place being left to choose good or evil; therefore they having chosen good, and exercising exceedingly great ffaith, are called with a holy calling, yea, with that holy calling which was prepared with, and according to, a preparatory redemption for such. - Alma 13:3
This was the only BoM passage I could recall that Mormons associate with the doctrine of pre-mortal existence. If you were thinking of other BoM pasages, please share them with us.

Paul
 
This was the only BoM passage I could recall that Mormons associate with the doctrine of pre-mortal existence. If you were thinking of other BoM pasages, please share them with us.
1 Nephi chapter 1:9-11 "And it came to pass that he saw One descending out of the midst of heaven, and he beheld that his luster was above that of the sun at noon-day. And he also saw twelve others following him, and their brightness did exceed that of the stars in the firmament. And they came down and went forth upon the face of the earth;

So what about all the other doctrines I mentioned? Are they distinctive to Mormonism or are they standard Christian orthodoxy?

Alma
 
what does that have to do with premortal existence? that could have been the twelve patriarchs of Israel or 12 angels or any number of things based on the context of Lehi’s vision.
 
What does the Book Of Mormon bring . . . .
. . . . .that is morally superior to the bible?
I really don’t want a Mormon bash thread here, because I was hoping for a Mormon to answer the question.

I know nothing of Mormonism. So I ask:

Does the book of Mormon teach anything about morals and love for fellow man that the Jesus didn’t teach?

I asked the same thing about Mohammed and got a lot of dead air.

Its a simple, sincere question.
The Book of Mormon does not teach anything that is morally superior to the Bible. It teaches the same morality that is in the Bible. It does, however, provide a lot of additional scriptural content to the Bible which is of great value indeed.

Have you thought of actually reading the book? If you sincerely want to know the answer to that question, don’t you think that would be a good place to start?

zerinus
 
The Book of Mormon does not teach anything that is morally superior to the Bible. It teaches the same morality that is in the Bible. It does, however, provide a lot of additional scriptural content to the Bible which is of great value indeed.

Have you thought of actually reading the book? If you sincerely want to know the answer to that question, don’t you think that would be a good place to start?

zerinus
“Scriptural content” based on a fraud is of NO value–in fact, being a fraud, it is, per se, a lie, and therefore of negative value.

The BoM is just the starter, the “door kicker” of Mormon theology. It sucks people in with it’s King James-ish dialect (see my prior post re Mark Twain)–and “call” that is reinforced by those ernest, clean cut missionaries and Mormon neighbors, "love bombing’ when you show up at the local Stake meeting. etc…
Doctrine & Covenants & Pearl of Great Price are where the REAL departure from Christian orthodoxy begins
 
So what about all the other doctrines I mentioned? Are they distinctive to Mormonism or are they standard Christian orthodoxy?

Alma
Okay,
pre-mortal existence for mankind - distinctly Mormon

the necessity of the Fall - shared by many Christian faiths, but only LDS believe that Adam did not sin.

theosis - Catholic and Orthodox have a theological concept we call theosis, but it is not like the LDS version

an open canon - shared by UU, Bahai, possibly JW

an anthropomorphic God - probably distinctly Mormon

theopomorphic man - in the spritual sense, shared by all Christians

universal resurrection - common to all Christianity (at least those who read the bible)

translation of the apostle John - speculated upon by all Christians (see John 21:20-23)

Adam and Eve worshipped Jesus Christ - Christians don’t believe that they knew him by that name, but most believe that Yahweh was the pre-mortal Jesus, so in that sense, yes.

that it is evil to baptize infants - shared by Evangelical and Fundamentalist Christians, along with Baptists and some others.

Jesus appeared to inhabitants of the americas - distinctly Mormon.
 
Have you thought of actually reading the book? If you sincerely want to know the answer to that question, don’t you think that would be a good place to start?
If it were as simple as reading and comprehending the book, I might give it a shot. The fact that I cannot get a simple answer or example tells me there is no pay-off (not that I’m an expert on the Catholic Bible).

My gut tells me to steer clear of any belief system built on what the original is doing wrong when it offers absolutely nothing better.

As I asked earlier, are there any moral teachings from the Book of Mormon recognisably superior to what Jesus taught in his own day in his own land?

Did Jesus tell any new parables or add to the beatitudes anything he may have forgotten the first time around?

I’m trying to get a simple answer to a simple question.

If the answer is “no”, then so be it.
 
“Scriptural content” based on a fraud is of NO value–in fact, being a fraud, it is, per se, a lie, and therefore of negative value.

The BoM is just the starter, the “door kicker” of Mormon theology. It sucks people in with it’s King James-ish dialect (see my prior post re Mark Twain)–and “call” that is reinforced by those ernest, clean cut missionaries and Mormon neighbors, "love bombing’ when you show up at the local Stake meeting. etc…
Doctrine & Covenants & Pearl of Great Price are where the REAL departure from Christian orthodoxy begins
The Book of Mormon is true. It is a book of revelation from God. It is a volume of scripture on a par with the Bible. I happen to know that that is the case.

zerinus
 
If it were as simple as reading and comprehending the book, I might give it a shot.
It is precisely that simple.
The fact that I cannot get a simple answer or example tells me there is no pay-off (not that I’m an expert on the Catholic Bible).
You did get an answer. But you don’t want to know.
My gut tells me to steer clear of any belief system built on what the original is doing wrong when it offers absolutely nothing better.
If you want to follow your gut, why did you ask the question in the first place?
As I asked earlier, are there any moral teachings from the Book of Mormon recognisably superior to what Jesus taught in his own day in his own land?
And I gave you the answer. What was there about my answer that you did not understand?
Did Jesus tell any new parables or add to the beatitudes anything he may have forgotten the first time around?
Actually, He did. The whole book is full of the stuff. If you insist that I should give you an example, here is a passage that you might like to examine:

3 Nephi 27:

13 Behold I have given unto you my gospel, and this is the gospel which I have given unto you—that I came into the world to do the will of my Father, because my Father sent me.

14 And my Father sent me that I might be lifted up upon the cross; and after that I had been lifted up upon the cross, that I might draw all men unto me, that as I have been lifted up by men even so should men be lifted up by the Father, to stand before me, to be judged of their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil—

15 And for this cause have I been lifted up; therefore, according to the power of the Father I will draw all men unto me, that they may be judged according to their works.

16 And it shall come to pass, that whoso repenteth and is baptized in my name shall be filled; and if he endureth to the end, behold, him will I hold guiltless before my Father at that day when I shall stand to judge the world.

17 And he that endureth not unto the end, the same is he that is also hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence they can no more return, because of the justice of the Father.

18 And this is the word which he hath given unto the children of men. And for this cause he fulfilleth the words which he hath given, and he lieth not, but fulfilleth all his words.

19 And no unclean thing can enter into his kingdom; therefore nothing entereth into his rest save it be those who have washed their garments in my blood, because of their faith, and the repentance of all their sins, and their faithfulness unto the end.

20 Now this is the commandment: Repent, all ye ends of the earth, and come unto me and be baptized in my name, that ye may be sanctified by the reception of the Holy Ghost, that ye may stand spotless before me at the last day.

21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, this is my gospel; and ye know the things that ye must do in my church; for the works which ye have seen me do that shall ye also do; for that which ye have seen me do even that shall ye do;

22 Therefore, if ye do these things blessed are ye, for ye shall be lifted up at the last day.
I’m trying to get a simple answer to a simple question.
I made it as “simple” for you as I possibly can. The rest is up to you.

zerinus
 
Thanks for your response. I am not trying to be confrontational, but since we are not face-to-face, I tend to leave out the smalltalk. Can I buy you a cyberCoke?
It is precisely that simple.
I don’t find the bible simple at all. Is the Book of Mormon simpler?
You did get an answer. But you don’t want to know.
You did answer my question, stating that Mormonism (terminology?) teaches nothing morally superior, which I did not acknowlege. My restating the general question after you specifically answered it came off as trying to shout over you. My bad.
If you want to follow your gut, why did you ask the question in the first place?
Sometimes my gut is wrong.
And I gave you the answer. What was there about my answer that you did not understand?
Please pass down any left over crow from above.
Actually, He did. The whole book is full of the stuff. If you insist that I should give you an example, here is a passage that you might like to examine:

3 Nephi 27:
13 Behold I have given unto you my gospel, and this is the gospel which I have given unto you—that I came into the world to do the will of my Father, because my Father sent me.14 And my Father sent me that I might be lifted up upon the cross; and after that I had been lifted up upon the cross, that I might draw all men unto me, that as I have been lifted up by men even so should men be lifted up by the Father, to stand before me, to be judged of their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil—15 And for this cause have I been lifted up; therefore, according to the power of the Father I will draw all men unto me, that they may be judged according to their works.16 And it shall come to pass, that whoso repenteth and is baptized in my name shall be filled; and if he endureth to the end, behold, him will I hold guiltless before my Father at that day when I shall stand to judge the world.17 And he that endureth not unto the end, the same is he that is also hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence they can no more return, because of the justice of the Father.18 And this is the word which he hath given unto the children of men. And for this cause he fulfilleth the words which he hath given, and he lieth not, but fulfilleth all his words.19 And no unclean thing can enter into his kingdom; therefore nothing entereth into his rest save it be those who have washed their garments in my blood, because of their faith, and the repentance of all their sins, and their faithfulness unto the end.20 Now this is the commandment: Repent, all ye ends of the earth, and come unto me and be baptized in my name, that ye may be sanctified by the reception of the Holy Ghost, that ye may stand spotless before me at the last day.21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, this is my gospel; and ye know the things that ye must do in my church; for the works which ye have seen me do that shall ye also do; for that which ye have seen me do even that shall ye do;22 Therefore, if ye do these things blessed are ye, for ye shall be lifted up at the last day.
I may need some help from other Catholics here, but:
  • how is this message any different than the 1600-1700 year old finalized written message we already have in the Catholic bible?
  • would LDS interpretation be any different from the other sects of Mormonism? (my terminology may be incorrect here)
    If there’s nothing morally superior, and it seems to me that at best Mormonism is re-inventing the wheel.
 
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