What does this Verse Mean to Non Catholics

[reteeks21]

reteeks21;4270036:

Seems fair to me! It’ll cost you five bucks though!
Think of it as buying an indulgence!
Ducks head from on coming Catholic fist (possibly my own)

But tGette, I only got a 10 spot. Can you break it, or will 5 more swing me a better deal?

 

[tGette]

But tGette, I only got a 10 spot. Can you break it, or will 5 more swing me a better deal?

Well duh! You just bought yourself more grace!

Wait…something is screwed up with the posts…everyone’s quotes are being given the wrong name…Did you notice this?

 

[reteeks21]

Well duh! You just bought yourself more grace!

I’m gonna need some “insurance” since the stock market is looking pretty pathetic. By the way, do I get to draw interest off of this $10? IS it kept in the Vatican Bank or somewhere else? I’d prefer it be kept in the Vatican Bank. I mean, who would be dumb enough to rip off God? Wait a minute…don’t answer that.

 

[robgrassley]

tGette;4270057:

But tGette, I only got a 10 spot. Can you break it, or will 5 more swing me a better deal?

Sorry for being so testy. I joined this forum yesterday because I feel like a deer on openig day down here and needed to connect. I know better than to assume 2 wrongs make a right. Forgive me for spouting off. Maybe we can “take it to the Church” to resolve this - ha ha

 

[reteeks21]

reteeks21;4270066:

Sorry for being so testy. I joined this forum yesterday because I feel like a deer on openig day down here and needed to connect. I know better than to assume 2 wrongs make a right. Forgive me for spouting off. Maybe we can “take it to the Church” to resolve this - ha ha

Apology graciously accepted, and I, too, should apologize for my attitude. Hold up…did we just settle that on our own? Looks like we didn’t need to “take it to the church”.

By the way, I am sorry for the way some of my dumb bretheren have treated you. May I ask where you moved from, and where you moved to?

 

[tGette]

I’m gonna need some “insurance” since the stock market is looking pretty pathetic. By the way, do I get to draw interest off of this $10? IS it kept in the Vatican Bank or somewhere else? I’d prefer it be kept in the Vatican Bank. I mean, who would be dumb enough to rip off God? Wait a minute…don’t answer that.

Actually…we are going back to what the Jews did in Jesus’ time and allowing you to give us all your money and we will put it in the Vatican Bank. This way you are considered “poor” and are not obligated to help out the poor or your family. The nice thing is though, you will still have full access to the money at your disposal, well, all but the $10, that’s ours so you do not lose your grace!

Interest, we cannot guarantee that. We might use the money for new vestments!

 

[tGette]

Sorry for being so testy. I joined this forum yesterday because I feel like a deer on openig day down here and needed to connect. I know better than to assume 2 wrongs make a right. Forgive me for spouting off. Maybe we can “take it to the Church” to resolve this - ha ha

Apology graciously accepted, and I, too, should apologize for my attitude. Hold up…did we just settle that on our own? Looks like we didn’t need to “take it to the church”.

By the way, I am sorry for the way some of my dumb bretheren have treated you. May I ask where you moved from, and where you moved to?

I love when there is reconciliation! Wonderful job guys! Keep HIS Peace!
robgrassley…WELCOME TO THE FORUMS!

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

CHESTERTONRULES;4269975:

Okay, which points? You want me to debate whether or not I am in a true church? Whether or not I am a pagan or tax collector? What? Tell me where to start.

My point:

Jesus seemed to indicate that there was a single authority for resolving disputes among believers. I believe this indicates that he only established one church.

How do you interpret this passage?

 

[tGette]

My point:

Jesus seemed to indicate that there was a single authority for resolving disputes among believers. I believe this indicates that he only established one church.

How do you interpret this passage?

am I the only one who notices that the quoting is all messed up and the wrong names are being given?

Jesus did found one Church! And He did not build it on sand!

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

am I the only one who notices that the quoting is all messed up and the wrong names are being given?

Jesus did found one Church! And He did not build it on sand!

I notice it now. It appears that I am having quite an internal struggle!

 

[tGette]

I notice it now. It appears that I am having quite an internal struggle!

HAHAHAHAHA!

Did I mention…that yes Jesus did found one Church?
Yes, that’s right…because He mentioned it 2000 years ago!

 

[reteeks21]

Actually…we are going back to what the Jews did in Jesus’ time and allowing you to give us all your money and we will put it in the Vatican Bank. This way you are considered “poor” and are not obligated to help out the poor or your family. The nice thing is though, you will still have full access to the money at your disposal, well, all but the $10, that’s ours so you do not lose your grace!

Interest, we cannot guarantee that. ***We might use the money for new vestments!/***QUOTE]

At least let me have some say in the colors.

 

[TBolt1000T]

CHESTERTONRULES;4269625:

I’m talking about two individual believers, ie. brothers in Christ.

Jesus gives a method for resolving these disputes.

However, his guidance only makes sense if there is a common understanding regarding who the Church is.

The Methodist and Baptist in this example have no common Church hierarchy that can resolve their dispute./

QUOTE]

So I guess we should all be treated like pagans then.

No! I don’t think that that’s what Chestertonrules is saying! I believe that he is saying that Jesus intended for there to only be one church, and not all these splits in Christianity. This can be supported with other scriptural references, especially in the Pauline letters.

BTW, I think that anyone who calls any church, whether the church in question is Protestant or Catholic, “the whore of Babylon,” is guilty of judging others, which Jesus Christ specifically forbids.

 

[TBolt1000T]

Guies, why can’t we just get back to the original question? The original poster simply asked how Protestants interpreted this passage in scripture.

I think I can give you guies a different answer. Back in my Protestant days, and even up until today, I didn’t really concern myself much with that passage. I interpreted what Jesus said as follows. If someone sins, and keeps sinning despite your warnings, you should take the dispute to your local church, and let them have the final say. I never gave the idea of two Christians from different denominations having a dispute any thought, but after reading through this thread, it does seem very problematic. For Protestants, I guess it could be interpreted that you should tell the other Christian’s church about the continual sin, and let that church resolve it. Now that I think about it though, even that way of interpreting it has it’s problems. If I was a Baptist, and the other guy was a Nazarine for example, if I walked into the other guy’s church and told the pastor about the issue, the pastor might not take me seriously, since I’m not a member of his church.

 

[robgrassley]

robgrassley;4270128:

Apology graciously accepted, and I, too, should apologize for my attitude. Hold up…did we just settle that on our own? Looks like we didn’t need to “take it to the church”.

By the way, I am sorry for the way some of my dumb bretheren have treated you. May I ask where you moved from, and where you moved to?

Burlington Vermont, about 1/2 from Canada - where you have winter then 4th of July then winter again.

 

[benedictus2]

Ray Stephens mentions this passage in his story of conversion. And it is a good point.

Take a homosexual for example. If he’s Anglican, he may even be given a pat on the back for being “true to himself” by his church heirarcy (i.e. depending on whether he’s high or low anglican). A more fundamentalist Christian (say Baptist thoug I do not really know where Baptists stand on this issue) would think this is an outright sin. So who decides on this issue.

The guidance of the Holy Spirit posses a problem too. With these varying understanding of scripture and doctrine among Protestants, how can they all claim to be guided by the Holy Sprit. Unless the Holy Spirit don’t really know what He’s on about.

And back to Ray Stephens story. He said he decided to have conditional baptism just to be sure as he didn’t feel right considering that all this time he has been calling the Bride of Christ the Whore of Babylon

 

[reteeks21]

reteeks21;4270146:

Burlington Vermont, about 1/2 from Canada - where you have winter then 4th of July then winter again.

For whatever it’s worth, welcome, at least from me. I am actually coming up that way for the North Carolina game Saturday, but I won’t be cheering for the Heels. I’m a huge Notre Dame fan. How odd…a Southern guy cheering for a mid-western Catholic school instead of a school in the backyard of the Bible Belt!

 

[With_Questions]

In order for this passage to have any meaning, there must be an identifiable Church to appeal to.

I believe this makes an explicit case for a single, hiearchical Church.

Comments?

Matthew 18

17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

I know what you are asking, and it actually is a very good question and is not a baiting one at all.

The question gets to the heart of how Jesus designed the church.

Whatever the answer is, it must consider all cases where this Scripture can possibly be applied.

Now I it is still a big leap to go from this Scripture to “The Roman Catholic church is the one true church and everyone else is inferior”. However, that does negate the fact that this is a good question.

 

[Contarini]

In order for this passage to have any meaning, there must be an identifiable Church to appeal to.

As I’ve said before, this passage seems pretty clearly to be talking about conflicts within a local congregation. I am quite confident that modern Catholic Biblical scholarship agrees with me. (Of course, many of you think that modern Catholic Biblical scholarship is heretical–but that’s your problem.)

I don’t think that this verse is irrelevant to the question of a universal Church. But I don’t think that was its primary meaning in the original context.

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

The Methodist and Baptist in this example have no common Church hierarchy that can resolve their dispute.

Let me ask you this:

When two Catholics have a conflict–say one of them rear-ends the other in the church parking lot (I’m being generous by giving you a conflict that actually arose on church property, even though that’s way too narrow an interpretation of what Matt. 18 is talking about), do they take it to the Church? Or do they sue each other in a secular court? If the latter, then you have no business quoting this passage against us. In fact none of us follow it.

Edwin