What does this verse mean?

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BRIT72

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I know what the following verse means, but to those that think works lead to salvation, what do you think this verse means?

**For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9.
**
 
BRIT72 said:
I know what the following verse means, but to those that think works lead to salvation, what do you think this verse means?

**For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9.
**
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I think it means what it says within context.

Faith without [something] is dead however.
 
Bad news, man. Your brilliant insight has been a part of catholic teaching since 1,000 years before Luther was born.

Google “Pelagian Heresy” and learn what the catholic Church has ALWAYS rejected about man’s ability to be “good enough” via his own virtue and willpower.

Surprise! Your evangelical teachers have been lying to you about what catholics believe. As usual.
 
manualman said:
Bad news, man. Your brilliant insight has been a part of catholic teaching since 1,000 years before Luther was born.

Google “Pelagian Heresy” and learn what the catholic Church has ALWAYS rejected about man’s ability to be “good enough” via his own virtue and willpower.

Surprise! Your evangelical teachers have been lying to you about what catholics believe. As usual.
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And this makes 3.
 
BRIT72 said:
I know what the following verse means, but to those that think works lead to salvation, what do you think this verse means?

**For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9.
**
Click to expand...
Hi Brit:

This question is answered very well right at this very website. Please click on this link:

catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9909chap.asp

Peace to you,

Steven
 
BRIT72 said:
Well that’s two people who have not answered the question so far.
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I thought you could read english :p.

I told you what it says. We are saved by the Grace of God. Period.

Our own works mean nothing without the Grace of God. Period.

Faith means nothing without the Grace of God. Period.

This Grace comes to use through the death and resurrection of Jesus once we become part of the Body of Christ.
 
BRIT72 said:
Thanks for the link, but I don’t believe the answer given. 🙂
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Okay. Well, can you tell me what portions you have a problem with, and what the problem is? Perhaps I can break those portions down further, or provide some more depth. Mr. Akin is a fine apologist, so I don’t know how much further I could take it. I’d love to give a go though, if you can be a little more specific.

Peace,

Steven
 
BRIT72 said:
I know what the following verse means, but to those that think works lead to salvation, what do you think this verse means?

**For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9.
**
Click to expand...
Faith is a gift of God.

I believe the argument you are “setting up” is only semantics. That is, reading scriptures is a work, praying is a work, attending Church is a work, loving your neighbor as He loves us is a work, etc.

One cannot work their way into heaven, lest any many should boast. One cannot simply believe, or have faith, Christ is the only begotten Son of God, who death was for the salvation of all, and live anyway they want, because we know faith without works is dead.

Works is our response to God’s love and gift.
 
LDNCatholic said:
Why not?
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Salvation is given to those who are utterly unworthy of it, by God’s grace. Writing to the Ephesians Paul said, ‘‘are ye saved.’’ he knew it and they knew it.
The way to to recieve the gift of eternal life is through faith. Faith means that man can take his place as a lost guilty sinner, and receives the Lord Jesus as his only hope of salvation.
Any idea that man can earn or deserve salvation is forever exploded by the words ‘‘and that not of yourselves.’’ It is a free unconditional present. The gift of God is salvation by grace and through faith. It is offered to all people everywhere. It can not be earned , for instance by, confirmation, baptism, church membership, church attendance, Holy communion, trying to keep the ten commandments, Living by the sermon on the mount, giving to charity, being a good neighbour, or living a moral life. People are not saved by works.

If anyone could be saved by his own works, then the death of Christ would not have been nessecessary.
 
Apparently, our sarcastic friend knows more about this passage than he knows about Christian charity.

He may not have arrived at the Gospels yet, in his studies. He certainly seems to have skipped Corinthians.

1John 4: 11-12.
 
manualman said:
Bad news, man. Your brilliant insight has been a part of catholic teaching since 1,000 years before Luther was born.

Google “Pelagian Heresy” and learn what the catholic Church has ALWAYS rejected about man’s ability to be “good enough” via his own virtue and willpower.

Surprise! Your evangelical teachers have been lying to you about what catholics believe. As usual.
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t go so far as to say that they are lying. There is a very big difference in being misinformed and lying. Most evangelicals (though by no means all) are very mistaken about other faiths. Spreading this misinformation is more out of ignorance than a willingness to decieve.
 
Ceil-1 said:
Apparently, our sarcastic friend knows more about this passage than he knows about Christian charity.

He may not have arrived at the Gospels yet, in his studies. He certainly seems to have skipped Corinthians.

1John 4: 8 and 11.
Click to expand...
If you are talking about me, I’m not sure why you are talking that way.
I’ve read the whole Bible and I believe it.
He would be a she btw.
 
BRIT72 said:
Salvation is given to those who are utterly unworthy of it, by God’s grace. Writing to the Ephesians Paul said, ‘‘are ye saved.’’ he knew it and they knew it.
The way to to recieve the gift of eternal life is through faith. Faith means that man can take his place as a lost guilty sinner, and receives the Lord Jesus as his only hope of salvation.
Any idea that man can earn or deserve salvation is forever exploded by the words ‘‘and that not of yourselves.’’ It is a free unconditional present. The gift of God is salvation by grace and through faith. It is offered to all people everywhere. It can not be earned , for instance by, confirmation, baptism, church membership, church attendance, Holy communion, trying to keep the ten commandments, Living by the sermon on the mount, giving to charity, being a good neighbour, or living a moral life. People are not saved by works.

If anyone could be saved by his own works, then the death of Christ would not have been nessecessary.
Click to expand...
I suppose you believe that all people are chosen by God from before birth whether or not they will be saved, then? If not then aren’t you being contradictory considering that accepting the grace of God would be an act of yourself, and therefore people would be saved by works and not grace alone (in your twisted understanding of the term)?
 
Ceil-1 said:
Apparently, our sarcastic friend knows more about this passage than he knows about Christian charity.

He may not have arrived at the Gospels yet, in his studies. He certainly seems to have skipped Corinthians.

1John 4: 11-12.
Click to expand...
The problem seems to be, our friend believes in private interpretation of scriptures, which is a catch-22 in my opinion. If we are all open to our own private interpretation of scriptures, as guided by the Holy Spirit, then our friend cannot say our interpretation is incorrect. Else, they would have to explain where that authority comes from in scriptures…
 
JamesRottnek said:
I suppose you believe that all people are chosen by God from before birth whether or not they will be saved, then? If not then aren’t you being contradictory considering that accepting the grace of God would be an act of yourself, and therefore people would be saved by works and not grace alone (in your twisted understanding of the term)?
Click to expand...
I’m sorry, but your not making any sense. :confused:
I believe that God knows who will be saved and who will reject him, but I don’t understand what you are getting at.
 
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