What don't you believe is correct in a non Catholic religion?

[Episcopalian]

Oooh I know, it’s very clear to a Catholic mindset. Believe me I was as loyal a Catholic as possible up until a few years prior to my conversion.

I know this is a touchy subject when transubstantiation is called into question, so I’m not trying to provoke the forum or get myself banned or something…so take this part with a grain of Protestant salt!

Could Jesus have transubstantiated the bread? Absolutely!

Was His Body and Blood given up for us? Yerp

When he died, did he harrow hell and rise again in three days, triumphant? 100% yes!

Did the bread change? Maybe! The possibility is there!

Call me a skeptic, but it all goes to context, and we’ll never know until we’re back with Him.

If Jesus was known to not use similes and a very literal person, then sure, the Eucharist transubstantiated.

Was the inflection His voice or body language indicative of what he really meant? I’d be shocked if it wasn’t!

I’m just opting for the simile route since He used a ton of anecdotes and stories in His preaching.

He obviously did miracles, and the Eucharist could have been one of them, but His message didn’t need a miracle for it’s point to hit home, only a simile.

 

[lexscripta]

Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox make up the overwhelming majority of Christendom. And we both reject Sola Scriptura and always have. It’s protestantism that created this man made tradition that has no basis in scripture, itself…and in fact, is just an assumption.

So what can we glean from this? Well for one thing you believe in the power of numbers to decide authority. That is a fallacy of Logic known as “appeal to authority”. A majority does not make a premise true. 2 - an obvious statement. You believe that the Bible does not stand alone as the sole authority of Christian doctrine. And, we all know that. I know your point very well. But I don’t think you are staying focused. All I am saying is that using the Bible alone, Catholicism would crumble. You can jump up and down and claim Protestants made up the idea that Sola Scriptura is not Christianity all you wish. It still doesn’t change the fact that Catholicism would not exist if the Bible was all it relied on. This cannot be realistically be denied.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

We can ascertain that your side is the one that has broken the norm here with SS, not us. The Apostles didn’t practice it, nor did the early church, nor did 1500 years of Church existence prior to Luther.

So, yes, not all Catholic doctrine is found spelled out for you in the scriptures. But none of it is contradictory.

 

[lexscripta]

There is plenty of Scripture for all that you listed. I will however not respond to a barrage of topics. I could give you a list a mile long as well if Protestant errors.

The “barrage” of topics is not what I listed. They all fall under a single premise that supports my underlying statement that I have said at least 4 times now. The New Testament does not teach Roman Catholicism. I understand you not wanting to deal with those underlying facts, but all they are is facts that support the statement:

The New Testament does not teach Roman Catholicism.

THAT is the only topic. The list of reasons are the evidence of that statement.

 

[JanR]

Well, most of them don’t believe in Purgatory. They believe there are only two options – heaven and hell. I am thankful for Purgatory as a third option. I can’t imagine God condemning anyone to hell for the “little stuff” – the venial sins or the honest mistakes. Even if unconfessed. They just aren’t that serious. And, purgatory is a process of purification, hence the root word, “purge”, on which it is based. I personally believe that hell is reserved for the truly, heinously wicked who will not repent. I am glad for Purgatory. Yes, there will be suffering, but once purified, paradise is the next destination. Hallejuhah!

 

[Horton]

What I have seen with most Protestants is the Once saved, always saved theory and the lack of fear of hell.

 

[DeSales111]

It is pretty clear you don’t even understand the Catholic Church. Most of us are not Roman nor do we belong to the diocese of Rome.

Stick to ONE topic. For instance, if you say our belief in the Real Presence of Christ is a product of Roman Catholicism please provide us your proof. Which Church council or Bishop of Rome is responsible? What documents substantiate your claim?

And please tell me, how and when did the Churches in Asia Minor or Africa become forced by Rome to believe in such a hard teaching?

You know, the Bible also does not teach Protestantism. I can not find one passage that supports splintering the Church over what you refer to as minor differences. I do see plenty of passages of a singular universal Church, one with an authority established by Christ to teach and forgive sins in His name. You see, the Holy Bible is a product of the Church established by Christ, the Bible is not the Church nor is it a substitute for the Church.

 

[lexscripta]

What I have seen with most Protestants is the Once saved, always saved theory and the lack of fear of hell.

Are OSAS even in the majority? I don’t know, but I don’t believe that, but I do not believe that God keeps an everlasting eternal torture chamber going either.

 

[lexscripta]

I am glad for Purgatory. Yes, there will be suffering, but once purified, paradise is the next destination. Hallejuhah!

Where does the concept of “purgatory” come from because its not in the Bible.

 

[Horton]

Where does the concept of “purgatory” come from because its not in the Bible.

There is plenty of proof of purgatory in the bible.

Psalm 66:12 (RSV) Thou didst let men ride over our heads; we went through fire and through water; yet thou hast brought us forth to a spacious place.
Isaiah 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion and cleansed the bloodstains of Jerusalem from its midst by a spirit of judgment and by a spirit of burning. (cf. 1:25-26; 6:5-7; Ecc 12:14)
Micah 7:9 I will bear the indignation of the Lord because I have sinned against him, until he pleads my cause and executes judgment for me. He will bring me forth to the light; I shall behold his deliverance. (cf. Lev 26:41, 43; Job 40:4-5; Lam 3:39)
Malachi 3:3 he will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, till they present right offerings to the LORD.
2 Maccabees 12:44-45 For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. [45] But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin. (cf. 1 Cor 15:29)
Matthew 5:22 But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, “You fool!” shall be liable to the hell of fire.

Probably the most clear proof is this one:

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. [12] Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw – [13] each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. [14] If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. [15] If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

 

[Horton]

but I do not believe that God keeps an everlasting eternal torture chamber going either.

You say you believe in God but don’t believe in hell? So you can do whatever you want, behave in any manner, and still go to heaven because you believe in God? There is no biblical support for that.

 

[Wannano]

I understand that John wrote that and believe it to be true. What I don’t understand , is that if we believe that the Bible, our written word, does NOT contain all we then NEED to know, how do we know that we are not missing something important?

 

[stpurl]

That’s why Jesus did not say, “I leave you my Bible, it will contain everything you need to know” but instead, “You are Simon, and upon this rock I will build my Church”, “The Church, which is the pillar and bulwark of Truth”, and “The Holy Spirit (not the Holy Bible) will lead you to all Truth”.

 

[Wannano]

I like Matt. 28:19…teaching them to observe whatsoever I have commanded, and lo, I will be with you alway, even to the end of the world.

 

[Horton]

is that if we believe that the Bible, our written word, does NOT contain all we then NEED to know, how do we know that we are not missing something important?

Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium. Jesus also told the Apostles to GO and TELL what he had told them. He never said bring them this book.

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

is that if we believe that the Bible, our written word, does NOT contain all we then NEED to know, how do we know that we are not missing something important?

Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium. Jesus also told the Apostles to GO and TELL what he had told them. He never said bring them this book.

I wonder if my main point is being missed, I am probably not very clear.

I understand from the Catholic perspective that the vehicle is Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium. However, if the Bible which is inspired by God is not all we need and believing that the world could not hold all that Jesus said and did if it was written down , how do we know we are not missing something?

Another question is…why is the Catachiesm written down?

 

[Horton]

We know we are not missing something as Jesus left the entire deposit of faith with the Apostles to reviled to His followers. We trust the Lord gave us everything we need to have eternal life.

why is the Catachiesm written down?

The Catechism is, for lack of a better word, an instruction manual. It is used to teach the faith. It is written down because it is a lot.

 

[Wannano]

What comprises the Catholic Deposit of faith?

Often it is said that the Bible is a Catholic book. Why was so much time and effort put into creating it if it really is not important or necessary for salvation. (I am basing my question on the fact that several times posters make the claim the the CC would be exactly what it is today even if there was no Bible. ) It seems the CC may have shot themselves in the foot to have produced a Bible. I guess one could also argue that Jesus never said to teach a Catachiesm, or “bring them this book.”

 

[Horton]

What comprises the Catholic Deposit of faith?

The Deposit of Faith is what Jesus left the Apostles. The teachings of His church left here on earth. It is that which makes up our Christian faith.

I would find it hard to believe any Catholic would say the bible wasn’t important or necessary for salvation. The teachings of Christ are necessary for salvation, many of which were written in the bible. As Catholics we believe the Church stands on three sources of our faith, the Bible, Sacred Tradition, and the Magistrium. All three are need and the Church does not stand if one were missing.

 

[Wannano]

Thanks, is the Deposit of Faith the same thing then as what is termed Sacred Tradition?