What drives groups like Church Militant?

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BoomerangToo said:
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catholic1seeks:
So what drives Church Militant
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Righteous anger. Like Jesus with the money changers. It’s hard to stand idly by and watch the destruction of our beloved Church.
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Don’t we all regard all our anger as “righteous” anger?
 
catholic1seeks said:
What drives Catholic groups like Church Militant?
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Church Militant seeks a return to a past period of glory for the Catholic Church back before the Vatican 2 Council and have painted a picture of what life and religious life and the church was back then as their goal.

The problems with their goal are two. 1. The past wasn’t as glorious and as perfect as guys like Mr. Voorhis imagine, they had plenty of problems; 2. You can’t return to the past anyhow. I can bemoan mistakes I may have made in my misspent youth, but I still have to deal with the results
 
Don’t you think there should be a thoroughgoing exposition of those clerics and religious guilty of sexual abuse of children and vulnerable adults even if such exposition reaches to the highest ranks of the Church’s hierarchy and where allowed the fullest prosecution under the civil as well as ecclesiastical law? If not, do you have another plan to rid the Church of these perverted persons who seek the corrosion of the Church?
 
commenter said:
Don’t we all regard all our anger as “righteous” anger?
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And this is the very reason why episcopal oversight is useful, keeping us from our tunnel vision of ourselves as righteous, and others as worthy of our anger.

I note that in the case of Jesus, all anger was righteous anger. For us, we even have a term “self-righteous” to denote the problem with giving ourselves that label.
 
They are driven by a love of saving souls. Even though I have been following their reporting for years I have always been a bit uneasy with them calling out bishops and priests. I am no longer. They ahave lways said that they had much more information than they ever reported on and that they only reported what the could source well. Now we know what they have been swimming in for years and why they do what they do. God bless them for being willing to do then for what the rest of us are just waking up to now.
 
I think it’s mostly Michael Voris’s style that is a bit off putting to most people. He does come off really, really harsh, but then again the scandals in the CC are not to be taken lightly. Voris has been instrumental in exposing an actual network of homosexual priests and others inside the CC. Not just random acts, but full blown networks of people working in tandem to promote their lifestyle within the Church.

I just think that some of his videos are a bit cheesy, and Voris has taken it upon himself to be a savior type. He calls himself the “sword” or something whacky like that? I think there are academic and less puffed up ways of exposing what is going on, but Voris insists on being “militant”. Their videos will obviously lead some less intelligent and less discerning people down to violence. That is NOT good.

I am new to the faith so I don’t want to overstep, but what should be done if many do not want to come forth?

And also why are some Catholics in here such as Catholic1Seeks using words such as “LGBT brothers and sisters” or “LGBT Christians”?? I understand that people could be suffering under sin, but to use language like that makes it seem as though it’s OK to be gay and remain Catholic as if nothing is wrong with that.
 
It’s ok to be gay and Catholic, no dif than any of us in that we’re all sinners.
The issue that good Catholics have with what’s going on today is normalizing active/practicing homosexuality.

Homosexual acts are inherently sinful.
So is adultry, for example, and we should never try to normalize homosexuality any more than we would any other grave sin.

Gays can be as Catholic as any sinner (any of us), but also just like any of us they too are called to repentance for their sins, and conversion from a life of sin to a life of holiness.
 
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Nigel7 said:
It’s ok to be gay and Catholic, no dif than any of us in that we’re all sinners.
The issue that good Catholics have with what’s going on today is normalizing active/practicing homosexuality.

Homosexual acts are inherently sinful.
So is adultry, for example, and we should never try to normalize homosexuality any more than we would any other grave sin.

Gays can be as Catholic as any sinner (any of us), but also just like any of us they too are called to repentance for their sins, and conversion from a life of sin to a life of holiness.
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If homosexual acts are sinful then how is it “ok to be gay”? Struggling with sin doesn’t make it “ok”.

I can see that you’re trying to be compassionate and that is fine. I agree with you, but sometimes I get frustrated at Christians when they try to have their cake and eat it too like this. You’re buying into the notion that gays are somehow a separate people, and not just people struggling with sin. You’re using modernist language to tackle sin.

I don’t think Michael Voris’s approach to being “militant” is correct, but this middling approach isn’t good for the Church either.

Let your yes be yes and your no be no. Is it a sinful act? Yes. So it’s not “ok to be gay and Catholic”. Language matters! And your use of it is deeply troubling.
 
@AugustineFanNYC

Being gay and committing homosexual acts are two different things.

I can be heterosexual and not engage in sexual activities the same as someone can be homosexual (gay) and not engage in sexual activities.

Big distinction there between having disordered desires and actually acting on them.
Big distinction.

“Deny yourself, pick up your cross, and follow after Christ”
 
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According to Jesus in Matthew 5, even thinking about sinning is the same as committing it.
 
Nigel7 said:
Being gay and committing homosexual acts are two different things.

I can be heterosexual and not engage in sexual activities the same as someone can be homosexual (gay) and not engage in sexual activities.

Big distinction there between having disordered desires and actually acting on them.
Big distinction.

“Deny yourself, pick up your cross, and follow after Christ”
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Being heterosexual is the order in which God intended. Again you’re using these modern words for hetero and homosexual. They aren’t a separate people or a “community” that just have different disordered desires, and as long as they keep it inside, it’s “ok”.

I understand where you’re getting at though. I am not trying to be combative, but just use your words carefully. They’re people struggling with sin, the same as you or I, but to say it’s “ok” as long as they don’t act on it, is NOT good. They have to not only know it’s not ok, but that they have to struggle against those THOUGHTS, not just the urge to act. They will fall and fail, but every day they will have to get back up and keep going.

To say it’s “ok” is to call their struggle trivial. I agree to be compassionate, and understanding, but this level of tolerance has to go. I am sorry, but there is no major distinction between the thought/desire and the act. It’s even worse to say that the thoughts/desires are “ok”.

DeMontFort, you nailed it quoting Matthew 5!
 
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AugustineFanNYC said:
Again you’re [ saying that and as long as they keep it inside, it’s “ok”.]
but to say it’s “ok” as long as they don’t act on it, is NOT good.
To say it’s “ok” is to call their struggle trivial. but this level of tolerance has to go. I am sorry, but there is no major distinction between the thought/desire and the act. It’s even worse to say that the thoughts/desires are “ok”.
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You continuously attempt to twist my words in order to make their meaning something else.
You are also continuously blurring the distinction between suffering/struggling against a disordered desire and acting out on it. Lots of misdirection there on your part.
And you clearly do not understand at all what I am getting at. I’ve spelled it out for you twice, and yet you do not understand. You say that you are not trying to be combative, so please stop misquoting me and injecting misdirection into your posts when responding to anything that I say.

So, lets spell it out again…

If someone is attracted to the opposite sex, yet understand its sinfulness and is repentant for having acted on that attraction, and is striving for conversion, then I hope to see them right there with you or I in line for confession as they’re making every effort at conversion and to grow in holiness.

Someone with homosexual inclinations can be as Catholic as any sinner (any of us), but also just like any of us they too are called to repentance for their sins, and conversion from a life of sin to a life of holiness.

Now, what part of “repentance and conversion” do you not understand, AugustinFanNYC?

What are you looking for, AugustinFanNYC? What will satisfy you? For me to say that anyone who suffers same sex attraction is not welcome through the doors of a Catholic church? That’s crazy speak, and has nothing to do with Church teaching.

When I said that “being gay and Catholic is ok” (completely taken out of context), I meant that being a sinner and being Catholic is ok, and I was very clear that acting on those desires is certainly NOT okay, so please stop misquoting me and putting words in my mouth.

Catechism:
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

[2359] Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery…

If you require further clarification then read the Catechism and speak with a good priest, but stop with the misquotes and misdirections and distortions.

Begin your reading at section 2357 of the CCC, the section on “Homosexuality and Chastity”.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm
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Have a lovely weekend.
Peace be with you.
 
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Church Militant is not anti-Cathollic. They are anti-new age homosexual invasion of the Church.
 
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