What? Easter Bunny to be renamed "Garden Bunny"?

[Lisa_N]

Steph700:

why are you so angry? your posts are often full of venom.

Your interpretation. I use the word evil sparingly. I think the ACLU’s action deserves this designation.

Steph700:

I will gladly send you positive info about the ACLU- although it seems that it shows up on your doorstep already!!

No, nothing positive comes from the ACLU propaganda. Just a lot of veiled threats about dangerous Christians taking over the world if there is a creche in a town square.

Steph700:

Oh, and why is my european experience invalid? This is fascinating!

Glad you are so easily entertained. I said your European experience was invalid with respect to what is going on in the United States while you were gone. I would never deem myself an expert in European affairs or way of life. I don’t know why you think that you could experience what we experience while in Europe.

Steph700:

ps… If our gov’t was run by followers of wicca I would feel threatened by their public displays of religion- wouldn’t you? Or how about public displays of animal sacrifice. Great for the whole family!!.

Steph obviously you are unaware that wiccans DO make public displays and no I am not particularly threatened by them. We have a very large group of Wiccans who have weekly circle gatherings to which they invite one and all. These are held in public parks. Who cares?

As to animal sacrifice, you must be unaware of animal cruelty laws. Futher, what religions do animal sacrifices these days?

Steph700:

pss. no pastor should be inciting even BITTERNESS! i don’t want those kinds of people gearing up their congregations to attack my best friend. all in the name of God and the Bible, it makes me sick.

Interesting how you don’t think that this minister should be able to interpret the Bible as he understands it. Aren’t you suggesting restriction on religious practices in a religious setting? I thought you didn’t want anyone subjecting THEIR opinions on others. What you have deemed bitterness is simply your opinion. And you are trying to subject this minister and this congregation to your interpretation of the Bible. Interesting bit of relativism.

And again you totally overstate your case. What churches are suggesting your best friend be attacked? You make wild claims but need to substantiate them with actions taken before you will have any credibility.

Lisa N

 

[Steph700]

jlw:

I
Oh, Steph!! The ACLU rarely goes after Jewish religious symbols and NEVER goes after Muslim religious expressions!! Only Christian!!

The Boy Scouts can’t exercise freedom of association??

No Nativity scenes allowed??

No Christmas trees allowed (Eugene, OR, thankyou)

No teensy-tiny cross allowed on the Los Angeles County Seal??

Shall I go on??

I catch your drift. But, you have to admit that our nation is full of Christian symbols. Last time I checked I haven’t seen any Jewish or Muslim religious symbols when I went to a public building or walked down the street.

 

[Lisa_N]

Steph700:

I catch your drift. But, you have to admit that our nation is full of Christian symbols. Last time I checked I haven’t seen any Jewish or Muslim religious symbols when I went to a public building or walked down the street.

Gee and all this time I thought the Ten Commandments came from the Jewish tradition. Guess Moses didn’t go to the mountain after all.
Lisa N

 

[Lisa_N]

HagiaSophia:

Wow - you’d better never read the early Fathers of the church. How do you feel about Jeremiah and John the Baptist?

Oh golly what about Amos? And darn that Jesus turning over the tables of the moneychangers in the Temple. That did cause a bit of a kerfluffle didn’t it?

Lisa N

 

[Steph700]

Lisa N:

Gee and all this time I thought the Ten Commandments came from the Jewish tradition. Guess Moses didn’t go to the mountain after all.
Lisa N

Ok, smarty pants. Good on you, there’s one Jewish symbol.

 

[legeorge]

Steph700:

I catch your drift. But, you have to admit that our nation is full of Christian symbols. Last time I checked I haven’t seen any Jewish or Muslim religious symbols when I went to a public building or walked down the street.

You mean the Jewish people don’t believe in The Ten Commandments? How about the Holocaust memorial? Give me a break. And no, those things don’t bother me because I am not prejudiced.
And by the way, quoting the bible and defining a sin in the context of a homily or sermon, only incites bitterness in those already harboring hatred in their hearts. Nobody told anyone to harm homosexuals, they were just clarifying the Bible’s teaching on the matter.

 

[Steph700]

legeorge:

You mean the Jewish people don’t believe in The Ten Commandments? How about the Holocaust memorial? Give me a break. And no, those things don’t bother me because I am not prejudiced.
And by the way, quoting the bible and defining a sin in the context of a homily or sermon, only incites bitterness in those already harboring hatred in their hearts. Nobody told anyone to harm homosexuals, they were just clarifying the Bible’s teaching on the matter.

Please see post 25 regarding the ten commandments.

I don’t think a holocaust memorial could be considered a religious symbol…

It would be interesting to go back and see what exactly these pastors said. My memory tells me that the pastor in Europe didn’t just say “homosexuality is a sin”- I think he went way way further than that and that’s why he got in trouble.

Look at it this way. There are some people who hate America. This hatred is in their own hearts and they are responsible for it. But what about people like Bin Laden? What about people who harnessed that hatred, mixed it with their fundamentalist religious interpretation and drove their followers to commit violent acts? These people need to be held accountable. Yes individual terrorists decided to sacrifice their own lives and kill others, but the people who motiviate them to do these terrible crimes are guilty as well.

 

[deb1]

Hello Step,

I have two cousins that are gay, one who’s morals I admire greatly. Yet, if you are a Christian you have to believe that Homosexuality is a sin with very dire consequences. This was very hard for me to accept, but I trust my cousin’s soul to God and pray that a miracle will occur. As far as pastors not preaching on the homosexual issues. What would you have them do? Ignore what the bible says because it makes us uncomfortable. I don’t know of one pastor-protestant or Catholic-that advocates hurting gays.

Part of the anger against pastors and priest preaching against homosexuality comes from the Mathew Shephard case. The secular media presented this murder as a being caused somehow by our society’s religous feelings against homosexual. BUt the facts in the case our different. All three, the murderers and victim, were on drugs and searching for more. There was even a news special that sort of implied that one of his killers was a bisexual himself. the indiviuals religious beliefs had nothing to do with his death.

As far as the ACLU. I have deep problems with any organization that defends NAMBLA-a fairly evil organization that purposly hunts down little boys for sexual abuse. ARGH! If you’re a dad or mom then NAMBLA will really tick you off. ANd it is hard to defend the ACLU, no matter what other good they might have done, from helping them

 

[Lisa_N]

Steph700:

Please see post 25 regarding the ten commandments.

I don’t think a holocaust memorial could be considered a religious symbol…

It would be interesting to go back and see what exactly these pastors said. My memory tells me that the pastor in Europe didn’t just say “homosexuality is a sin”- I think he went way way further than that and that’s why he got in trouble.

Look at it this way. There are some people who hate America. This hatred is in their own hearts and they are responsible for it. But what about people like Bin Laden? What about people who harnessed that hatred, mixed it with their fundamentalist religious interpretation and drove their followers to commit violent acts? These people need to be held accountable. Yes individual terrorists decided to sacrifice their own lives and kill others, but the people who motiviate them to do these terrible crimes are guilty as well.

I dunno Steph, for me it’s pretty easy to connect the Halocaust with the Jewish people. True others were killed but Hitler’s campaign was SPECIFICALLY against the Jews.

As to your Bin Laden analogy one more time PLEASE provide information that a sermon or homily has resulted in VIOLENCE against homosexuals. Bin Laden’s hatespeech HAS resulted in action. You cannot compare a minister preaching ‘fire and brimstone’ with a man whose organization is responsible for the deaths of thousands. Again you seem to overstate your case.

So please provide information that sermons are creating violent acts directed against homosexuals or drop this line of argument. The poor dog is off track and has lost the trail.

Lisa N

 

[Richardols]

Lisa N:

So please provide information that sermons are creating violent acts directed against homosexuals

The God Hates Fags church in Kansas City is known for its rabid hatred of homsexuals, and numerous fundamentalist churches don’t hide their similar hatred.

You may be right that violence hasn’t occurred, but not for want of trying.

 

[HagiaSophia]

Lisa N:

Oh golly what about Amos? And darn that Jesus turning over the tables of the moneychangers in the Temple. That did cause a bit of a kerfluffle didn’t it?

Lisa N

Clearly - it started about 2,000 years ago and has never ceased- find a pack of Christians and you have a peck o’trouble.

Most of our spiritual forefathers would be called in today and told they aren’t “pastoral” and they are somewhat rigid…therefore they aren’t worthy to “teach and preach”. Paul would never make it in today’s world.

 

[legeorge]

Please see post 25 regarding the ten commandments.

Sorry, I was typing at the same time as the previous poster.

I don’t think a holocaust memorial could be considered a religious symbol…

I don’t think the Easter bunny is a religious symbol. And I would just love to see the outcry if we tried to put out a memorial for Catholic martyrs.

It would be interesting to go back and see what exactly these pastors said. My memory tells me that the pastor in Europe didn’t just say “homosexuality is a sin”- I think he went way way further than that and that’s why he got in trouble.

Of course the secular media that reports such things doesn’t twist things to fit their agenda or anything. Also, I was thinking of the incident in Canada, and no violence has erupted as a result of defining a sin.

Look at it this way. There are some people who hate America. This hatred is in their own hearts and they are responsible for it. But what about people like Bin Laden? What about people who harnessed that hatred, mixed it with their fundamentalist religious interpretation and drove their followers to commit violent acts? These people need to be held accountable. Yes individual terrorists decided to sacrifice their own lives and kill others, but the people who motiviate them to do these terrible crimes are guilty as well.

You are right, they should be held accountable, but the last time I checked, my copy of the CCC doesn’t advocate killing anyone. I don’t think you can equate Bin Laden, who lives in a Muslim theocracy with Christians living in a democracy. The libs only like free speech when the person is saying what they like. If you quote the Bible, you are spewing “hate speech” and “inciting violence”. Sounds reasonable to me.

 

[Lisa_N]

Richardols:

The God Hates Fags church in Kansas City is known for its rabid hatred of homsexuals, and numerous fundamentalist churches don’t hide their similar hatred.

You may be right that violence hasn’t occurred, but not for want of trying.

PUH LEASE! One nutty minister with a sign outside his church means Christian ministers denouncing homosexual acts is inciting violence? Look there are nuts everywhere but again do you have a SHRED of evidence that violent ACTS are being promoted? Far as I can tell about the most ferocious things these groups do is assemble and pray publicly. Boy that’s scary.

Lisa N

 

[Steph700]

deb1:

Hello Step,

…if you are a Christian you have to believe that Homosexuality is a sin with very dire consequences. This was very hard for me to accept, but I trust my cousin’s soul to God and pray that a miracle will occur. As far as pastors not preaching on the homosexual issues. What would you have them do? Ignore what the bible says because it makes us uncomfortable. I don’t know of one pastor-protestant or Catholic-that advocates hurting gays.

I agree. Practicing homosexuality is a sin. I think we have a right to believe that, I think that pastors have a right to teach that. You are fortunate that you do not personally know any pastors who advocate violence agaist gays- I don’t either. However, in cases I had read about in Europe the pastors were encouraging un-Christlike behavior towards gays. That is where I draw the line.

deb1:

As far as the ACLU. I have deep problems with any organization that defends NAMBLA-a fairly evil organization that purposly hunts down little boys for sexual abuse. ARGH! If you’re a dad or mom then NAMBLA will really tick you off. ANd it is hard to defend the ACLU, no matter what other good they might have done, from helping them

NAMBLA disgusts me. I wish it didn’t exist. However, as I see it this organization has a right to exist and the ACLU defends this right-it doesn’t defend the organization. I think we need to do whatever we can as Christians to stand against predators who go after children. But as I understand the constitution I think NAMBLA has a right to exist.

 

[Steph700]

Lisa N:

I dunno Steph, for me it’s pretty easy to connect the Halocaust with the Jewish people. True others were killed but Hitler’s campaign was SPECIFICALLY against the Jews.

As to your Bin Laden analogy one more time PLEASE provide information that a sermon or homily has resulted in VIOLENCE against homosexuals. Bin Laden’s hatespeech HAS resulted in action. You cannot compare a minister preaching ‘fire and brimstone’ with a man whose organization is responsible for the deaths of thousands. Again you seem to overstate your case.

So please provide information that sermons are creating violent acts directed against homosexuals or drop this line of argument. The poor dog is off track and has lost the trail.

Lisa N

Many people were killed in the holocaust- Jews, gays, mentally hadicapped, children, elderly, Christians- but yes, the majority were Jews. I don’t see how having a memorial which reminds us of the tragedy is the same as having religious symbols on public buildings though.

I’ll look for the article on the BBC tonight about the pastor who was arrested…
I don’t think I’m overstating my case. The only difference between fundamentalist Christians and fundamentalist Muslims is that Muslims have had more opportunity to unleash their hatred in violent ways in the last few years. I think if some of these gay-hating individuals have their way they would do just as terrible things as Bin Laden and his crew have.

 

[Steph700]

legeorge:

You are right, they should be held accountable, but the last time I checked, my copy of the CCC doesn’t advocate killing anyone. I don’t think you can equate Bin Laden, who lives in a Muslim theocracy with Christians living in a democracy. The libs only like free speech when the person is saying what they like. If you quote the Bible, you are spewing “hate speech” and “inciting violence”. Sounds reasonable to me.

That’s why I’m Catholic, I don’t advocate killing anyone either. However, you have to admit that ESPECIALLY in fundamentalist evangelial America overly-zealous pastors have preached terrible things over the years- whether its racism, sexism, highly-inflamatory anti-gay sermons, etc. Unfortunately not everyone follows the CCC, and living in a democracy doesn’t make us any more righteous.

I’m a liberal, I don’t think the Bible is hate speech… but I definitely think these pastors can incite violence when they don’t preach things within the context of the beatitudes Jesus taught us.

You bet Jesus got fired up about things- turning over tables in the temple, etc. That is some great stuff! But he never advocated violence or hatred.

 

[Lisa_N]

Steph700:

Many people were killed in the holocaust- Jews, gays, mentally hadicapped, children, elderly, Christians- but yes, the majority were Jews. I don’t see how having a memorial which reminds us of the tragedy is the same as having religious symbols on public buildings though…

Because it tends to dispute your argument. Look ask anyone on the street what group was specifically targeted by Hitler. Tell me you wont get 99% “Jews” We have a Halocaust museum that is getting hundreds of thousands of government funds. Tell me that isn’t government money being used for religion.

Steph700:

I’ll look for the article on the BBC tonight about the pastor who was arrested…

The BBC? Oh yes they are certainly a reliable source.

Steph700:

I don’t think I’m overstating my case. The only difference between fundamentalist Christians and fundamentalist Muslims is that Muslims have had more opportunity to unleash their hatred in violent ways in the last few years. I think if some of these gay-hating individuals have their way they would do just as terrible things as Bin Laden and his crew have.

I don’t know whether to laugh or cry at the expression of such incredible naivety. Are you KIDDING? Islamists have been using violence against innocents for DECADES, since before you were born. Are you unaware of the thousands of people killed by Islamists? Do you think impoverished, illiterate Muslims have had MORE opportunity to unleash violence than “gay hating individuals” in this country where anyone can get ahold of a gun? How many Christians have been suicide bombers? How many? How many Christians have flown airplanes into buildings. How many?

I guess none so blind as those who will not see. Wow I am amazed.

Lisa N

 

[Sir_Knight]

WhatMeWorry:

the next hurricane blowing thru is going to be an F100 and will sink the state right into the Gulf !

If global warming continues at the present rate, scientists predict that over half of Florida will be under water by 2040 – that’s only 35 years away … something to think about if anybody is planning on moving there – one of the reasons why I left two years ago and moved back to the north-east.