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1990Domer
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This is a keeper!
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on_the_hill
Guest
Our three children went to a (secular) Montessori school for pre-school. They have since attended public schools. My eldest is a high school senior this year. My youngest is in 5th grade.
We thought about sending our eldest (a girl) to the Catholic high school. She spent a day there shadowing, and her reaction was, “meh, it’s school.” The school didn’t offer us any financial aid or tuition break. Since the daughter’s reaction was ‘meh, it’s school’ and since they weren’t helping us out with the $, we kept her in the public system. Had she come out of her experience there saying, “I loved it! I want to go to school there!” we would’ve found a way to pay for it. But…
I have not even a scintilla of regret that they’re in the public system.
My wife went k-12 in a Catholic school. While she knows her catechism far better than I, who was almost entirely public schooled, she will be the first to tell you that she had a sub-par education. However, she grew up in a rural, small town area and the public education wasn’t any better and was probably weaker. (That being said, she earned a PhD in engineering from a name-brand engineering school).
I was public schooled except for 6th and 7th grade, when I attended a Catholic school to avoid the crashing public school system where we lived at the time. I started 8th grade in a different, top-notch public school district and was woefully behind by classmates in math and science. This was the fault of both my Catholic school years and the public school system I had been in previously.
All that to say: some Catholic schools are good, some are poor. Some public schools are good, some are poor. YMMV.
We thought about sending our eldest (a girl) to the Catholic high school. She spent a day there shadowing, and her reaction was, “meh, it’s school.” The school didn’t offer us any financial aid or tuition break. Since the daughter’s reaction was ‘meh, it’s school’ and since they weren’t helping us out with the $, we kept her in the public system. Had she come out of her experience there saying, “I loved it! I want to go to school there!” we would’ve found a way to pay for it. But…
I have not even a scintilla of regret that they’re in the public system.
My wife went k-12 in a Catholic school. While she knows her catechism far better than I, who was almost entirely public schooled, she will be the first to tell you that she had a sub-par education. However, she grew up in a rural, small town area and the public education wasn’t any better and was probably weaker. (That being said, she earned a PhD in engineering from a name-brand engineering school).
I was public schooled except for 6th and 7th grade, when I attended a Catholic school to avoid the crashing public school system where we lived at the time. I started 8th grade in a different, top-notch public school district and was woefully behind by classmates in math and science. This was the fault of both my Catholic school years and the public school system I had been in previously.
All that to say: some Catholic schools are good, some are poor. Some public schools are good, some are poor. YMMV.
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Cider
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I love that quote. I also homeschooled for a similar reason, although I was not Catholic at the time.
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1990Domer
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I would agree. But can cyber and home schooling be separate entities? I could never home school. Cyber school tests and sets the curriculum. Plus we have an IEP for our son, much of which the cyber school carries out and he is allowed to participate in all after school district events.
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1990Domer
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I’m glad you had a great experience. If you read my threads, my poor son was treated horribly at our Catholic school. This is despite receiving awards for “most pious.” It was worse than perfect…my DS startedself-injuring himself at school because his class isolated him, spread false rumors. I agree not all are terrible. I had a great experience. Sad to lose the religious teachers in the schools.
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Inisfallen
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My daughter will attend public school when she starts school.
Really, that’s our only choice. We live in a really good district, and our local public elementary school is super - highly rated, with a great principal. I’m happy with it.
There isn’t a Catholic elementary school within any workable distance from our home, so that’s not an option. Too bad, but that’s the situation.
When it comes to high school, we’ll have to see what our options are. New York City has a few excellent public high schools that admit students based on competitive exams, rather than just proximity to the school. If she can test into one of those, that would be nice (not that I want to put too much pressure on her).
There are also wonderful Catholic high schools. I was lucky enough to test into what most people think is the best Catholic high school in NYC (it’s run by the Jesuits), but it’s only for boys. I’m not aware of a girls’ school that offers an equivalent education. But there are good ones.
College, well, that’s a long way off. Her mom, my wife, went to Harvard, both for undergrad and law school, and that would be wonderful (especially given Harvard’s tuition policy) but that’s obviously a long shot (and I don’t want to burden my daughter with the assumption that she *has *to, or even should want to, get into Harvard). Lots of options for college, and that will be just as much my daughter’s choice as mine or her mother’s.
Really, that’s our only choice. We live in a really good district, and our local public elementary school is super - highly rated, with a great principal. I’m happy with it.
There isn’t a Catholic elementary school within any workable distance from our home, so that’s not an option. Too bad, but that’s the situation.
When it comes to high school, we’ll have to see what our options are. New York City has a few excellent public high schools that admit students based on competitive exams, rather than just proximity to the school. If she can test into one of those, that would be nice (not that I want to put too much pressure on her).
There are also wonderful Catholic high schools. I was lucky enough to test into what most people think is the best Catholic high school in NYC (it’s run by the Jesuits), but it’s only for boys. I’m not aware of a girls’ school that offers an equivalent education. But there are good ones.
College, well, that’s a long way off. Her mom, my wife, went to Harvard, both for undergrad and law school, and that would be wonderful (especially given Harvard’s tuition policy) but that’s obviously a long shot (and I don’t want to burden my daughter with the assumption that she *has *to, or even should want to, get into Harvard). Lots of options for college, and that will be just as much my daughter’s choice as mine or her mother’s.
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LongingSoul
Guest
Yes I know, I read your threads and it’s been a very trying time for him and you. As a parent of 2 ASD’s I’m just offering the suggestion not to be completely closed off to mainstream schools if it’s suggested by the professionals at anytime for him. Kids with ASD can certainly learn and need to learn resilience and honestly, as they get older, they develop their own ways of coping and dealing to carry them into adult life.
I feel a little bit uncomfortable with the schools giving out ‘most pious’ awards though. I’ve never heard of that in all my years of being connected with Catholic education. Piety has a deep inner aspect that’s not available to be judged and your son might be getting the message that appearing pious is the most important thing. That’s the downfall of cult attitudes like the Duggars had. Appearing pious means very little and could prevent a person dealing openly with their inner flaws and temptations. I’d try not to put too much emphasis on that award really. Being holy and good require humble self examination without pride.
I do wish you the best though. It is very tough I know.
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1990Domer
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My son is one of the most scrupulous kids I know. He is mainstreamed. Trust me, I know about the Dugger Family and we do not endorse their philosophy. If he can get over more of his social quirks, he wants to join a monestary. Pious, as I see him, is polar opposite of the Duggars. As far as self-examination and pride, he attends confession twice a month. He is getting great formation on humbleness and pride from the wonderful Polish priests at the Shrine of Czestochowa.
Thanks you for your concern, but many strangers we attend Mass with notice how he loves attending and soaks up all aspects of the Mass.
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KnitNut
Guest
We homeschool. It’s more effective, more efficient, more tailored to student interests and abilities, easily allows for advanced or remedial study as appropriate, allows for a flexible schedule and lots of family travel. We have access to learning opportunities that are generally unavailable to institutionally educated kids, on a very regular basis.
No one is saying our kids are “better”, nor that our family is “better”. True, we reject the institutional paradigm. We also reject the premise that the state/school/village knows best how to raise our kids. But it’s no disrespect to you personally, nor to your parenting, individually. We’re just not relying on you-the-village to make decisions in our children’s best interests, so we’re not going to give you-the-village that power and responsibility, even if “all the other parents are doing it”.
As far as the homeschooling “cult”…this applies pretty much to any cultural/societal group. (See also, cultish Catholics, cultish, vegans, cultish sports fans. It’s not like homeschoolers have cornered the market on over-the-top extremist cliques.) There will always be a subset of HSers who fit your description. Most of us don’t. The demographics of homeschooling are shifting (rapidly) away from the “religious fundamentalist Duggar-esque” model you present…though I suspect the stereotype will persist for quite a while.
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Xantippe
Guest
I believe ThePCWife homeschools.
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Kelfa28
Guest
Homeschooling definitely has changed given the abysmal state of public education in many places.
More and more parents are homeschooling because Private school is too expensive and they can’t get their kids into the Charter schools.
I just can’t justify sticking my kids into this massive school where they will get lost.
The Parish school attached to our Church graduated one 8th grade class of 12 kids. Much, much better then the hundreds of kids that graduate 8th grade in the public school system.
Growing up, I went to a massive middle school with over 2,000 students for three grades in one building.
It was crazy.
I like the parish school because we’ve already met and have befriended a lot of the teachers, parents/kids and the administration just by being active members of the Church.
It’s not much of a transition for my kids. My oldest loves it because we’ve been going there for events since she was a baby and she recognized the principle, assistant principle and her teachers.
The price of it may be a challenge. It is doable…I’ve crunched the numbers and it’s doable.
Having all three kids in the Catholic high school is the equivalent of one child in a state college.
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PhiloMed
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This is what our parish school was like before it had to close due to low enrollment. So very sad. We even moved close to the school so the kids could walk there.
Since it closed we are going to look into a combination of homeschooling and private tutoring which turns out will cost about the same as having the kids in the catholic school.
So I think my answer is a little different. DH and I both work full time so we are looking into having a tutor come to the house a few hours each day for lessons and combine that with a family member who is a retired teacher and has offered to handle some subjects.
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Allegra
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Yeah, I wasn’t going to say anything, but that sounds bizarre to me too. As if piety is something that can be objectively measured and ranked by an onlooker. I could see maybe giving awards for a special “act of piety” in order to exemplify and encourage acts of piety among the kids, but “most pious”? Weird.
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Allegra
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Cliqueish people will find a clique no matter what they do. If their kids are in public school, they’ll form a faction clique among the PTO. If their kids are in Catholic school, they’ll form a clique amongst the parents of the soccer team. If their kids homeschool, they’ll form a clique with other homeschooling parents, but not THOSE homeschooling parents. The good ones. That’s how cliquish people operate. There is a clique available for any insecure person who feels the need to establish a pecking order, regardless of their choices of education.
I also don’t put much stock in the “they think they’re better” argument. Pretty much every decision a parent makes regarding their children is a process of discerning what they feel is best for their kids.
I never heard a parent say, “We enrolled our kid in whatever school/class/program/club because we feel the teacher will really nurture Junior’s mediocrity.” Unless this really is a parenting philosophy, I don’t get the point of criticizing other parents for making choices that they feel will make their kids “better”. It’s normal for parents to want their kids to be as well off as possible. That doesn’t mean they are judging other parents for their decisions.
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marymary1975
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My daughter went to public school.until first grade, and after first grade I switcher her to pur parochial School. The main reason I switched her was because planned parenthood went to the school to give them a speech and I refuse to have my daughter being brainwashed that early by them. So far we are pretty happy with the school. Though for high school I may consider public school as at 16 her mind will.be pretty much made up.on everything and it will be much more difficult to brainwash.her if she has had a solid education and receives reinforcement at home.
I went to a private Catholic school.my entire life, run by the Christian Brothers of St John Baptist of LaSalle. I love it and I received a great education by the brothers both on the Catholic faith and on.science and arts. Unfortunately there are no schools by the Christian Brothers so I cannot send my kids with them, but if I would have one at least at a deliverable distance no doubt that my kids would go there from. PreK until.12th grade.
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KnitNut
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Yes, I think so…or at least may do some combo thing. But my point still stands, in that “any” member of the proverbial village is not empowered to educate my kids nor make decisions on their behalf…even within the homeschool community. (And homeschoolers are not immune from the “my method/system/group is better than yours” mentality…it’s the nature of humanity, not of any particular subset.)
I do find, generally, the Boston HS community very laissez-faire. We have access to pretty much the entire spectrum of public, private, religious (we even have multiple Orthodox schools!), prep, or cyber school known to mankind…and we still opt out. Likewise there are a boatload of support groups by faith, methodology, age range, geography…but a lot of us opt out of those, too. We’re just educating our kids, man, not looking for a different herd to join.
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ThePCWife
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I don’t think you get what I mean by cultish. I do not do the best job of being connected with my neighbors, but my kids can run around in their yards and my neighbors can give me feedback on their behavior since we’ve tried to build those relationships so that the “village” is something we are comfortable with our kids being a real part of, not just “roommates writ large”. We also are willing to use some pieces of the public school system because again, those people are literally our neighbors.
The cultishness I’m talking about regarding homeschool is exactly what you’ve said, the idea that all those other people you live next door to can’t be trusted with anything like a social relationship beyond the most artificial and superficial. Being in the world but not of it shouldn’t mean limiting oneself to the nuclear family and maybe, possibly, some extended family occasionally. I want my kids to know lots of people are looking out for them and care about them than just myself and their father. That doesn’t mean I think my neighbors “know best”, it merely means I invite them to participate in the big job of raising kids with me, to a reasonable and properly ordered extent. So the school district superintendent gets less (name removed by moderator)ut than the neighbor a half mile away who teaches a homeschool-partnership class my kids attend, as an example.
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UbiCaritas
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This is pretty much our point of view, though our long-term plan is somewhat like PhiloMed’s, too.
DD is a toddler now, and thus far our only, but we’re planning on homeschooling for several reasons.
- The local public schools are not good at all.
- The local private schools are mostly pretty good, but they’re also pretty expensive. The local Catholic high school, for example, has tuition rates that are 75% of the better state college tuition rates. We do have relatively low in-state tuition here, but that’s still not doable for most people. DH and I figured out that we might be able to swing private school for a family of our anticipated size (5-6 kids or so)…if we didn’t save for retirement. Not really an option.
- In Texas, as I’ve mentioned on here probably far too many times , homeschoolers can a) participate in extracurriculars with their school district and b) can attend community college for their last two years of high school for free, receiving college credit simultaneously and earning up to an associate’s before transferring to a four-year university. I really, really like this idea as being a stepping-stone between being at home and being several hours away at college. I also like the idea because there are some classes that I have no business teaching anyone, and higher math and science are on that list. I’d much rather have someone competent in those fields and with access to a solid laboratory teaching my kids those subjects than, say, someone who is very ignorant of them. Like me. Either DH or a private tutor will be teaching them upper-middle-school through lower-high-school math; ditto Spanish.
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phil19034
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I went to public school because my parents couldn’t afford Catholic school. However, I wish I would have attended Catholic school
I would like my kids to attend Catholic school but my wife (a former public school teacher) wants them to attend public school. She is 100% against my kids attending Catholic School.
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Xantippe
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I have a thought or two to add about the math, because I’m from a very math-y family and I have a relative that has a lot of experience teaching remedial community college math.This is pretty much our point of view, though our long-term plan is somewhat like PhiloMed’s, too.
DD is a toddler now, and thus far our only, but we’re planning on homeschooling for several reasons.
- The local public schools are not good at all.
- The local private schools are mostly pretty good, but they’re also pretty expensive. The local Catholic high school, for example, has tuition rates that are 75% of the better state college tuition rates. We do have relatively low in-state tuition here, but that’s still not doable for most people. DH and I figured out that we might be able to swing private school for a family of our anticipated size (5-6 kids or so)…if we didn’t save for retirement. Not really an option.
- In Texas, as I’ve mentioned on here probably far too many times
Math is a particularly good choice for extra support if necessary. A lot of older homeschooled children seem to take over responsibility for teaching themselves at some point, and that’s generally not a good idea for math. Unless a child is very gifted in math, they generally do need some hand-holding, and the weaker they are as a math student, the more hand-holding they are going to need. My dad’s program experimented for a while with self-paced math and a math lab and it was not a success.
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