What else to do with such offensive Christmas cards

[thistle]

What about hate speech laws?
Wouldn’t this count as hate speech?

How would that count as hate speech?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

The issue is that companies who sell such products are often hoping for attention, especially if it’s a small/ unknown company. They make a deliberately offensive product, hoping people will get outraged and protest, leading to attention for their company. In the worst case the company founders genuinely hate Christians and enjoy getting a rise out of them.

So, when protesting it’s important to pick your battles and avoid playing into the hands of those who are seeking your negative reaction.

I also agree that I could find offensive stuff on the Internet all day. It’s a different situation when the store where you shop every week has an offensive product. You can tell their management, “I shop at your store every week and this is offensive to me and if you don’t take it off your shelves, I will shop at your competitor instead.” Much different situation from “I stumbled on an offensive thing online.”

 

[Patri]

The issue is that companies who sell such products are often hoping for attention, especially if it’s a small/ unknown company. They make a deliberately offensive product, hoping people will get outraged and protest, leading to attention for their company. In the worst case the company founders genuinely hate Christians and enjoy getting a rise out of them.

I understand what you are trying to say but at the same time it just feels wrong to ignore them. People should be told when they are being offensive. I found out about it from an article, Christian groups were complaining and they replied that it was just for fun, that people have different reasons for celebrating Christmas. If it were the other way round, I doubt they would stay silent when offended. I understand both approaches, especially after you explained it without shutting me down. Probably my email will not have any effect on them but staying silent just feels like acceptance to me.

 

[JoeShlabotnik]

This is a sign of the time that we live in.
Make fun of others, chastise others, be inconsiderate of others…hate others.
Christmas should be a time of love.
I pray for those who profit off of the suffering of others. May God show them the error of their ways.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

That’s fine. We’re all moved to speak out by different things.
One just has to be careful not to frame it as “If you don’t speak out against this, then you’re not being a good Christian/ good Catholic”.
People may have a variety of reasons for not speaking out and it’s not because they’re afraid to do so, it’s that they think it’s a more prudent course of action to ignore it.
Likewise if you do wish to speak out, then it would be wrong for a fellow Christian/ Catholic to tell you that you shouldn’t do that and should stay quiet.

 

[Bluebright]

I’m in UK send me the details in a pm, I’ll write to them and tell them how awful it is and round up a few people who will do the same. ( do describe the card a bit so we know what we are saying).

 

[Patri]

I’m in UK send me the details in a pm, I’ll write to them and tell them how awful it is and round up a few people who will do the

Thank you, I just sent you the website and the link so you see the card. Pity we can’t sue or anything, people stop to think when their actions cost them money.

 

[do_justly_love_mercy]

The specific card you were complaining about seems to have disappeared from the website. However, I would say that many of the cards on the site (which I appreciate we are not naming…), including the one you originally mentioned, are very sexist/misogynistic. As a woman, I find a lot of their cards offensive quite separately from the religious aspects of the specific one you highlighted.

Don’t they have anti-blasphmey laws out there?

That is unfortunate

Why would you expect the UK to have anti-blasphemy laws? Why should blasphemy be punished by the state? I do not support blasphemy, but equally I do not support blasphemy being a crime. I am not sure where you are from, but the US has effectively no laws against blasphemy. Any blasphemy laws that do exist cannot be enforced as they would be deemed unconstitutional.

 

[Patri]

The specific card you were complaining about seems to have disappeared from the website

I know a few of us wrote them. A friend said she would contact ofcom to complain. At least if people say it is just fun with no intent to hurt, then it should be so. Yes there are other Christmas cards they have that at best are of a very bad taste. I for one I’m very happy they took the one of Our Lady down.

 

[Elias]

Europe is not America. They do not have the same laws or philosophy as America. Even if they did, no one should have the right to blaspheme God. It’s literally against the 2nd commandment.

I also only see it as fair considering any depictions of the very misguided man, Muhammad, gets taken down or is not even considered. The misled man, Muhammed, gets actual respect from people but our LORD and His blessed mother do not. It’s an utter travesty that needs to end.

People tend to forget that our King deserves at least the same amount of respect the misguided man Muhammad gets, if not more. Utterly shameful people would rather sit and not act when it is completely appropriate to do so.

I for one I’m very happy they took the one of Our Lady down.

I see this as a win for Our Lord and Savior. If more people politely voiced their displeasure at people that commit hate speech against Christians we would get the same amount of respect the muslims get in Europe and around the world.

 

[Elias]

How would that count as hate speech?

Taken from Wikipedia

Hate speech laws in England and Wales are found in several statutes. Expressions of hatred toward someone on account of that person’s colour, race, disability, nationality (including citizenship), ethnic or national origin, religion, gender identity, or sexual orientation is forbidden.[1][2][3][4] Any communication which is threatening or abusive, and is intended to harass, alarm, or distress someone is forbidden.[5] The penalties for hate speech include fines, imprisonment, or both

Calling Our LORD’s blessed mother a harlot is distressing to me and many other faithful Christians and is highly offensive. Just like calling the confused man, Muhammad, a warmonger or a pedophile is distressing and offensive for the Muslims in the UK.

 

[do_justly_love_mercy]

I have lived in Europe, so I do know that it’s not the same as the US. However, I also know that Europeans are no more keen on prosecuting blasphemy as a crime than Americans are. Russia’s authoritarian government has a law that can be used to prosecute blasphemy, but it’s really used as a way of prosecuting dissent and upholding the position of the Russian Orthodox Church, which is an important part of the state apparatus.

 

[Elias]

Are you implying that religion should be divorced from the state? I see the Russian government having some standards when it comes to protecting God’s name as a win and to be in compliance with the second commandment. It’s a shame the Russian church is in schism, but it is only a matter of time before they come home to Rome.

 

[Catholic361]

Not good,they should have to stop making the cards

 

[do_justly_love_mercy]

Are you implying that religion should be divorced from the state?

I don’t know where you’re from, but I am an American, and separation of religion and the state is one of the fundamental principles on which our republic is founded.

I see the Russian government having some standards when it comes to protecting God’s name as a win and to be in compliance with the second commandment.

Pretty much everything the Russian government does, it does for the sole purpose of maintaining Vladimir Putin’s position as Russia’s de facto president-for-life. I think it is unlikely that he was very concerned with protecting the name of God or upholding the Ten Commandments during his 16 years as a KGB officer.

It’s a shame the Russian church is in schism, but it is only a matter of time before they come home to Rome.

The Russian Orthodox Church isn’t even in communion with the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople. If they can’t even manage to be in communion with the Eastern Orthodox Ecumenical Patriarch, they are hardly likely to be on course for restoring communion with the Catholic Church.

 

[thistle]

Calling Our LORD’s blessed mother a harlot is distressing to me and many other faithful Christians and is highly offensive. Just like calling the confused man, Muhammad, a warmonger or a pedophile is distressing and offensive for the Muslims in the UK.

I am certainly not defending people who do such things. However, because someone says something offensive does not necessarily mean it is a hate speech.

 

[Patri]

I see this as a win for Our Lord and Savior. If more people politely voiced their displeasure at people that commit hate speech against Christians

It is a pity that they did not take down the other 3/4 about Jesus but the one of Our Lady definitely crossed the line. I am happy about that even if they only did it so as not to get called intolerant. This thread has made me reflect though, seeing the different responses and reasons people gave to act or not to act. Pope Francis has been criticised for not speaking up when people have thought he should, for not explaining himself when people have felt he should, for not doing what people have thought he should have… We are so quick to start up threads about him that a lot of times end up being disrespectful… Yet each and everyone of us acted with our best intentions regarding these cards for example (as in many other issues), and we all thought we were right. It just struck me how we make decisions in good faith, expect respect for them but a good number of people don’t extend the same courtesy to the pope. This is just a reflection, I barely know any of you. The threads I am talking about are mostly from other forums and Facebook. I do believe that just as the pope has his responsibilities, so do we at our own level. Two very different situations of course, it just got me questioning if we look away from some things and denounce others.

 

[Joe_5859]

Nothing was done on my part to give them publicity, like I explained, it did not feel right to stay silent and I wanted to create awareness.

Creating awareness is giving them publicity.

I’m glad the link is gone. We can have a discussion and give general advice, but there is no need to give their website increased visibility and traffic. That’s exactly what they are looking for.

 

[redbetta]

I also only see it as fair considering any depictions of the very misguided man, Muhammad, gets taken down or is not even considered. The misled man, Muhammed, gets actual respect from people but our LORD and His blessed mother do not. It’s an utter travesty that needs to end.

People tend to forget that our King deserves at least the same amount of respect the misguided man Muhammad gets, if not more.

The reason why depictions of Muhammad are not even considered/taken down is likely not so much out of respect, but out of a desired to not get shot/bombed.

 

[Patri]

Creating awareness is giving them publicity.

I’m glad the link is gone. We can have a discussion and give general advice, but there is no need to give their website increased visibility and traffic. That’s exactly what they are looking for.

Maybe, but I do not agree that staying silent is the answer because it gives the impression that we could not care less. I had not considered the other option but it feels like we protest everything in life, except our faith. I do not agree we should defend with violence, but silence is acceptance. There are moments to pray for wisdom and be silent and others to act. I respect that you see things differently but I respectfully disagree with you. I would not have posted the link to a porn site for example but I thought people would be outraged about such cards on sale, so the response surprised me. But well, in the end I’d like to think people on here no matter the option they follow act in good faith.