What essential parts of Christianity are not found in Scripture?

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BouleTheou:
sparkle -

Listen closely now: Like what? I know you think I’m missing out on a lot - just tell me… please.

BouleTheou
You are missing out on the fullness of the living faith. You are living in a framed-out house which might clearly show where all the rooms are, but the walls, plumbing and electricity haven’t been installed.

Hillaire Belloc used a powerful illustration when he said that critics of the Church are like men inside Chartres Cathedral on a dark night, trying to see the stained glass windows by candle light, and wondering why people say that these windows are so beautiful.

Indeed, the Catholic faith bases all of her doctrines deeply in Scripture. So what are you missing? You are missing the living Tradition which illumines Scripture according to the mind of Christ.

Doubtless you will say, “Bah! Humbug!” What else can you say since you are required to be your own personal authority?
 
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BouleTheou:
mercygate -

You know that’s not what the council meant… they were saying we cause our own salvation by good works made possible by God’s grace.
No, Boule. This quotation does not say we cause our own salvation by our own works outside the saving Work of Christ. The canon reflects the view of James that we maintain our “justice” by how we respond to grace.
But then again… is that just your private interpretation of Trent, or are you an infallible interpreter of Councils?
It is this kind of gratuitous mockery that disinclines even an open hearted interlocutor to trust your probity.
It’s just utterly anti-Biblical. Titus 3:4-5, “But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous works we have done, but according to His mercy.” Ephesians 2:8-9, “For by grace you have been saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not by works so that no one can boast.”
BouleTheou
These texts in the present context are off center. Paul is saying that Jesus didn’t come into the world because the Jews were excellent adherents of the law and deserved salvation. This text is tangentially related to the relationship between faith and works but not a direct application here. These citations reflect the old false opposition of Ephesians with James.
 
Mercygate and everyone else -

I’m signing off of this thread now. I have received my answer. What essential parts of Christianity are not found in Scripture? Answer: None.

Thanks,

BouleTheou
 
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BouleTheou:
Mercygate and everyone else -

I’m signing off of this thread now. I have received my answer. What essential parts of Christianity are not found in Scripture? Answer: None.

Thanks,

BouleTheou
Well, some orthodox and solid Catholic would agree to that assertion too.

Doesn’t make Protestant any right, because they corrupted what is essential that is in the Bible.
 
beng -
Well, some orthodox and solid Catholic would agree to that assertion too.
Then they affirm the Protestant doctrine of Sola Scriptura.
Doesn’t make Protestant any right, because they corrupted what is essential that is in the Bible.
What in the world does this mean. What have we corrupted that is essential in the Bible.

BouleTheou
 
To say that all essential doctrines are to be found through Scripture is not the same thing as saying that Scripture alone is sufficient to determine how those doctrines will develop (as with the Trinity). True doctrine cannot be expressed in any context other than the Church into which they were breathed. Scripture is embedded in the Church. And the Church is embedded in Scripture. Non solam, set etiam!

We’ll be looking for you in RCIA now that you’re convinced that the Catholic faith is scriptural. 🙂

Non solam, sed etiam!
 
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BouleTheou:
What am I missing by believing that all special revelation from God about the Christian faith is in the Bible?

Thanks,

BouleTheou
Was Jesus pro-choice or “PRO-LIFE”?

Many Christians this year will vote for infanticide. Many Christians voted for NAZI’s too. Who is guilty of the crime of genecide, the voter or the executioner?

I vote pro-life so when the Advocate defends me at my justification before Jesus I will not have to lower my head in shame when Jesus asks how many babies did I murder or save. I can hold my head up and look Jesus in the eye while my deeds of my Faith are presented and the witnesses are brought forth. (Saint Chris I ‘Hope’ will be by my side.:love: )
 
Essential parts?

The most essential part is the MASS. THE liturgy, the practice or worship of JESUS CHRIST. You do not know what this means. Because it is not spelled out in scripture. IF scripture is a how to book, then give us the cliff notes. since you believe all the essentials are there, spell it out to us. Demonstrate this Novel idea of yours.
 
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RMP:
Essential parts?

The most essential part is the MASS. THE liturgy, the practice or worship of JESUS CHRIST. You do not know what this means. Because it is not spelled out in scripture. IF scripture is a how to book, then give us the cliff notes. since you believe all the essentials are there, spell it out to us. Demonstrate this Novel idea of yours.
But RMP, the Mass IS embedded in Scripture. Read my posts above. It is not the essence of any doctrinal point that is not in Scripture, it is the fleshing-out of that doctrine that is the Church’s task, responsibility, charism and mission.
 
We know the mass is embedded in scripture…Since we can conclude the mass is essential. Then by scripture, What IN the mass is Essential to the christian faith? The liturgy, eucharist, prayer, petition, intercession, ect?

My point is, all we have is WHAT was has been passed to us through history through the CHURCH.
 
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BouleTheou:
beng -

Then they affirm the Protestant doctrine of Sola Scriptura.
No. That the essential part of the Gospel can be found in the Bible.
What in the world does this mean. What have we corrupted that is essential in the Bible.

BouleTheou
Of course.

There’s no Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura in the scripture. Anyone who says that there is, he has corrupted the Biblle message.
 
First of all, you know I’m asking about unique Catholic dogma. But I’ll entertain you anyway…

No sola fide? What do these passages mean then?
  1. Romans 8:33-34, “Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns?”
  2. Luke 18:14, “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”
  3. Acts 13:39, “Through him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses.”
  4. Romans 3:24, “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
  5. Romans 3:26, “he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.”
  6. Romans 3:28, “For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.”
  7. Romans 3:30, “since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.”
  8. Romans 4:1-2, “What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about–but not before God.”
9.Romans 4:5, “However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.”

10.Romans 4:25, “He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.”

11.Romans 5:1, “Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,”

12.Romans 5:9, “Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!”

13.Romans 5:16, “Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.”

14.Romans 5:18, “Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.”
  1. Galatians 2:16, “know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.”
  2. Galatians 3:11, “Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, ‘The righteous will live by faith.’”
  3. Galatians 3:24, “So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith.”
  4. Galatians 5:4, “You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.”
  5. Titus 3:7, “so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.”
  6. Ephesians 2:8-10, “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.”
  7. Titus 3:4-5, “But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us,”
  8. Romans 11:5-6, “Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.”
 
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BouleTheou:
Mercygate and everyone else -

I’m signing off of this thread now. I have received my answer. What essential parts of Christianity are not found in Scripture? Answer: None.

Thanks,

BouleTheou
Boule, It is my belief that you came in here with your mind made up in advance. Having come from a non-Catholic background, I can understand that you really believe what you’ve been taught. I’ve been there, too. It’s good that you believe in our Lord’s Word so strongly. It is necessary and it does feed us. Please ask Jesus to lead you, by the Holy Spirit into His truth. You may find that His truth may not necessarily mean what you think it means (or what was taught to you by someone else thought that it meant.)

May God, our Father bless you in your search for Truth.
Sherry
 
Sherry -
Boule, It is my belief that you came in here with your mind made up in advance. Having come from a non-Catholic background, I can understand that you really believe what you’ve been taught. I’ve been there, too. It’s good that you believe in our Lord’s Word so strongly. It is necessary and it does feed us. Please ask Jesus to lead you, by the Holy Spirit into His truth. You may find that His truth may not necessarily mean what you think it means (or what was taught to you by someone else thought that it meant.)
Ditto.
May God, our Father bless you in your search for Truth.
Thanks. But I’m not searching for Truth. I have found it already.

BouleTheou
 
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BouleTheou:
First of all, you know I’m asking about unique Catholic dogma. But I’ll entertain you anyway…

No sola fide? What do these passages mean then?
  1. Romans 8:33-34, “Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns?”
  2. Luke 18:14, “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”
  3. Acts 13:39, “Through him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses.”
  4. Romans 3:24, “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
  5. Romans 3:26, “he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.”
  6. Romans 3:28, “For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.”
  7. Romans 3:30, “since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.”

  1. Romans 11:5-6, “Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.”
No Sola Fide still

Do you think throwing lots of verses will change that? cute.

When Paul said “Faith apart from work” he does not mean Sola Fide. First of all, it doesn’t negate that faith can be coupled with things like obedience, love, perseverance, etc. Paul just said that it’s not to be coupled with work. That’s it. From someone to jump into “faith alone” from “faith without work” is sloppy and intellectually dishonest.

Second of all, Paul has said that works of law justified (Rom 2:13) the chapter shows Paul’s apreciation of “work”. The Epistle of James and revelation also emphasize on work. From there on we should study why is Paul “seem” to contradict himself. Upon further investigation it’s apparent that Paul used “work” interchangably between:
  1. Work in an employer and employee relationship. When after the employee do the job the employer is obligated to pay
  2. Work in a father and son relationship. A work under grace and love.
This is the incorupted message of the gospel.

Remember, the Holy Spirit only inspire ONE instance where the word “faith” is coupled with the qualifier “alone” and that is James 2:24. For anyone to be bold enough try to make a case to side stepped this fact is stupid, presumptious and arrogant.

Have a good time explaining it to God.
 
Beng -

I’ll accept your dodge (which is what your post is) as an admission of defeat - thanks.

BouleThoue
 
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BouleTheou:
Sherry -

Ditto.
Thanks. But I’m not searching for Truth. I have found it already.

BouleTheou
As did the Pharisees, though, they were not open to the truth nor did they accept it.

Matt.13:
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

15 For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
 
“If any one says that man may be justified before God by his own works, whether done through the teaching of human nature, or that of the law, without the grace of God through Jesus Christ; let him be anathema.” (Council of Trent, canon 1 on Justification)

“None of those things which precede justification – whether faith or works – merit the grace itself of justification. For, if it be a grace, it is not now by works, otherwise, as the same Apostle says, grace is no more grace.” (Council of Trent, decree on Justification, chapter 8)
 
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BouleTheou:
First of all, you know I’m asking about unique Catholic dogma. But I’ll entertain you anyway…

No sola fide? What do these passages mean then?
  1. Romans 8:33-34, “Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns?”
. . .
  1. Romans 11:5-6, “Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.”
How is it that Mt. 28:31-46 did not make it into your cavalcade? Hectic verse flinging is a deflective technique designed to confuse rather than to illumine, and in this case sidesteps the issue. In all this cannonade, only one quote from Our Lord himself – and that not even addressing the matter of faith?
 
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