What every average latin rite cath should know about the ECCs?

ConstantineTG · Jan 10, 2012

ByzCathCantor said:
It’s amazing how many Roman Catholics do not appreciate why they are called “Roman Catholic” and not simply “Catholic”. In fairness, its taken years to educate my mom’s side of the family. We finally broke ground a few years back when I asked my cousin to be Godfather for my youngest son, and at first he was convinced that he would not be able to do so in “another Church”.

It seems its easier to understand that there are different varieties of vanilla ice cream - different shades of grey - etc. - than it is to accept that there are different types of Catholics.

Most Roman Catholics think the “Roman” is just there because that’s where the Catholic Church is (or the Vatican).

ConstantineTG · Jan 10, 2012

odile53 said:
Yep. I think a good first step would be for someone reliable and perhaps even official to publish a list of churches which are in full communion with Rome.

I had an issue about a week ago where a friend’s father died. The family are members of the Antioch Orthodox Church. I could not remember whether this was an Eastern Catholic Church or not, so I had to come on here and ask. ByzTradCath, thank you (and others) for your explanations.

Well, Eastern Catholics normally won’t put “Orthodox” in their name to avoid confusion.

MatteoRicci · Jan 10, 2012

ConstantineTG said:
Most Roman Catholics think the “Roman” is just there because that’s where the Catholic Church is (or the Vatican).

That kind of says it all now doesn’t it? That is the mentality of the average Catholic. If it doesn’t have the “RC” on front or other respective moniker, than the idea is that it must be another Church.

I suppose the simplistic answer to the issue would be, “let’s go educate them all on the 21 other eastern catholic churches” - but in a certain sense that would also be highly impractical.

Most Latin Rite catholics will continue on in their Rite, although some may wish to explore the intellectual and spiritual gifts of our eastern brothers and sisters.

So to the daily spiritual life of a Roman Catholic, the existence of the ECCs impinges very little.

At the same time - something needs to be said because they are indeed a part of our Church.

A kind of definitive statement that sticks in the head - although what that could be i wouldn’t know which is why i asked the question in the first place.

Edit: Case in point —> forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=633143&page=2

OrdinaryMelkite’s Diagram is definitely going up on my wall. But i can’t reasonably expect the average Cath to go memorize all of that.

ConstantineTG · Jan 11, 2012

MatteoRicci said:
That kind of says it all now doesn’t it? That is the mentality of the average Catholic. If it doesn’t have the “RC” on front or other respective moniker, than the idea is that it must be another Church.

I suppose the simplistic answer to the issue would be, “let’s go educate them all on the 21 other eastern catholic churches” - but in a certain sense that would also be highly impractical.

Most Latin Rite catholics will continue on in their Rite, although some may wish to explore the intellectual and spiritual gifts of our eastern brothers and sisters.

So to the daily spiritual life of a Roman Catholic, the existence of the ECCs impinges very little.

At the same time - something needs to be said because they are indeed a part of our Church.

A kind of definitive statement that sticks in the head - although what that could be i wouldn’t know which is why i asked the question in the first place.

Edit: Case in point —> forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=633143&page=2

OrdinaryMelkite’s Diagram is definitely going up on my wall. But i can’t reasonably expect the average Cath to go memorize all of that.

To be fair, over 98% of Catholics are Roman Catholics, and most of them will live their entire lives never knowing there are 22 other Churches in the entire Catholic Church. Eastern Catholics are scarce outside of their traditional territories.

Back when I was unaware of the Eastern Catholic Churches and when I was watching Pope John Paul II’s funeral, I thought the Eastern Catholic Bishops were Orthodox and I thought to myself what a wonderful ecumenical gesture that was

MatteoRicci · Jan 11, 2012

ConstantineTG said:
To be fair, over 98% of Catholics are Roman Catholics, and most of them will live their entire lives never knowing there are 22 other Churches in the entire Catholic Church. Eastern Catholics are scarce outside of their traditional territories.

Duly acknowledged and understood. But i am still optimistic that there has to be some means or method of at least putting the idea abstractly into their heads that “oh and by the way, there are a bunch of other Churches that we are in direct communion with”

I know the RCIA thread is exploring that, although i think attempting to teach a catechumen about the different rites might be a bit much.

Back when I was unaware of the Eastern Catholic Churches and when I was watching Pope John Paul II’s funeral, I thought the Eastern Catholic Bishops were Orthodox and I thought to myself what a wonderful ecumenical gesture that was

My epiphany came about int he following manner:

Japan Airlines flight from Narita Airport.

Me in Seat 1, Syro-Malankaran (Or was it Malabaran?

) Seat 2.

Me; “Your a what? Oh. Umm… er… soo your one of those Oriental Churches?”

joeantony · Jan 11, 2012

MatteoRicci said:
So i’m a Chinese latin rite catholic who gets the occasional heresy/idolatry/“It isn’t from Western Europe so it must be Satanic!” comment from his fellow latin rite faithful for such actions as burning incense and respecting my forebearers on their birth and death anniversaries, participating in Chinese New year, and having a large collection of Confucian paraphernalia.

(Do you know how many times i’ve had to explain Confucianism is not a religion? the statue probably doesn’t help. )

In my younger days i’d usually try to explain the whole Chinese Rites controversy. Part of me is so jaded at this point i usually just walk up to a computer during the tirade, print out the appropriate section of “Plane Compertum” and hand it to the person.

…and even then at times that’s not enough.

But the tiny pebbles i am pelted with are in comparison rather small to the giant boulders i see hurled at you members of the ECC on occasion by members of my own rite who simply have no inkling of the wider world.

So here’s my question for you all today - What is it that every member of the Latin Rite should know about the Eastern Catholic Churches? (Well aside from your existence )

Wait wait - i know the CAF mentality is about to kick in and the onslaught of theology, philosophy, histories of individual churches, and primary sources are going to accumulate sky high.

Perhaps we could umm…start off smaller?

I believe the original post quoted above invites everyone to list out the aspects a Latin rite Catholic ought to know about the Eastern Catholics.

Well, I am an Eastern Catholic in the east. Even the Latin Rite Catholic in the east do not know most often the below mentioned aspects.

1-ECs are truely Catholic.
2-They have a True Apostolic Tradition.
3-They are of a different Rite than of Roman Rite.
4-They are in communion with Rome, means they consider Pope as their supreme head.
5-An EC can attend a RC liturgy and vice a versa.
6-EC sacraments are as valid,eternal and same as of Latin rite Sacraments.
7-An EC can become a RC and an RC can become an EC.
8-Eastern Catholics are more practicing than Latin Rite ( This is my favourite- I believe Eastern Catholics are more in numbers and I hope someone would post some statistics here).

Joe

MatteoRicci · Jan 11, 2012

joeantony said:
I believe the original post quoted above invites everyone to list out the aspects a Latin rite Catholic ought to know about the Eastern Catholics.

Well, I am an Eastern Catholic in the east. Even the Latin Rite Catholic in the east do not know most often the below mentioned aspects.

1-ECs are truely Catholic.
2-They have a True Apostolic Tradition.
3-They are of a different Rite than of Roman Rite.
4-They are in communion with Rome, means they consider Pope as their supreme head.
5-An EC can attend a RC liturgy and vice a versa.
6-EC sacraments are as valid,eternal and same as of Latin rite Sacraments.
7-An EC can become a RC and an RC can become an EC.
8-Eastern Catholics are more practicing than Latin Rite ( This is my favourite- I believe Eastern Catholics are more in numbers and I hope someone would post some statistics here).

Joe

Now that’s a good list! Easy, digestible, and to the point. (although about that 8.

)

Thank you for the contribution.

odile53 · Jan 11, 2012

I think the spirituality list is great, but how about a list someplace of the actual names of the churches? This “Latin dummy” needs a cheat sheet!

PodunkMommy · Jan 11, 2012

LoyalViews said:
…never heard that one

I haven’t heard it put that it isn’t from western Europe so it must be Satanic but I have heard that if it’s Eastern it must be New Age.

Blessings.

ConstantineTG · Jan 11, 2012

MatteoRicci said:
Duly acknowledged and understood. But i am still optimistic that there has to be some means or method of at least putting the idea abstractly into their heads that “oh and by the way, there are a bunch of other Churches that we are in direct communion with”

I know the RCIA thread is exploring that, although i think attempting to teach a catechumen about the different rites might be a bit much.

Its hard really unless the Vatican herself encourages the spread of the Eastern Churches around the world. I came from a country thats predominantly Roman Catholic, that is why none of us ever heard of Eastern Catholics. The Orthodox have been few and scarce the last century and only in the last decade have they established themselves in the country. And many would still think that they are some new, radical group pretending to be an Apostolic Church. Exposure really is the problem, or should I say the lack of it.

ByzCathCantor · Jan 11, 2012

ConstantineTG said:
To be fair, over 98% of Catholics are Roman Catholics, and most of them will live their entire lives never knowing there are 22 other Churches in the entire Catholic Church. Eastern Catholics are scarce outside of their traditional territories.

Yes, very true. However, in the urban and suburban areas where we have historically congregated, there is enough of a population of ECs (and Orthodox, for that matter) for church-going people to at least “take notice”. In many of those cities and towns, you’d have the typical “church zone” where you’d have several different churches in close proximity. Even in the relatively small community in which I live, our BC church is in line of sight with four other churches - Lutheran, Methodist, Episcopalian and RC. The Episcopalians normally show much greater interest that our RC brothers and sisters. We actually bought our church building from the nearby RC parish (which now has a much larger church and other facilities), yet they don’t seem to know us. When the elders stop by to “see their old church”, they ask what kind of church it is today.

BVM_1221 · Jan 11, 2012

MatteoRicci said:
Perhaps we could umm…start off smaller?

If you attend a Sunday (or Saturday Vigil) mass of the ECCs, you have fulfilled your Sunday Obligation.

At most ECCs, communion will be leavened bread dipped in wine. If you are allergic to bread, talk to the Priest before the mass so that will be offered the wine only

In my case, as a recovered alcoholic, I receive the bread only.

The SOTC is different. Use whatever you are comfortable with. I happen to be a switch-hitter (see my signature). Some aspects of the Creed and Mass may strike you as different, but this is probably due to the fact that the ECCs use translations directly from the original Greek.

Rarely will you find kneelers. Mostly standing and sitting. I sit through most of the service due to my bad feet. And you will love our prostrations during lent

Really, we are a friendly bunch.

Vico · Jan 11, 2012

odile53 said:
Yep. I think a good first step would be for someone reliable and perhaps even official to publish a list of churches which are in full communion with Rome.

I had an issue about a week ago where a friend’s father died. The family are members of the Antioch Orthodox Church. I could not remember whether this was an Eastern Catholic Church or not, so I had to come on here and ask. ByzTradCath, thank you (and others) for your explanations.

5Loaves · Jan 11, 2012

Vico said:
It is not a mystery. The Catholic Church publishes the names of the sui iuris Churches in the Annuario Pontificio every year. See below for details:

Plus the little guys like my Russian Church.

5Loaves · Jan 11, 2012

Available from Catholic Update What All Catholics Should Know About Eastern Catholic Churches.

I’m not endorsing it, just pointing it out.

ByzCathCantor · Jan 11, 2012

5Loaves said:
Available from Catholic Update What All Catholics Should Know About Eastern Catholic Churches.

I’m not endorsing it, just pointing it out.

An interesting find - at least its a start. The overview of church structure was thoughtful. The use of Latin terminology in some instances was hard not to notice:

Metropolitan: The Ethiopian (or Abyssinian), the Romanian and the Ruthenian Churches are distinct in that their Metropolitan, that is, principal bishop, must request the pallium—his sign of authority—from the pope rather than by election from his Church. In these cases the local synod must provide three nominees to the pope, who makes the final choice.

P.S. Yes, its now approaching two years since + Metropolitan Basil’s passing, and yet there is still no successor for the Ruthenian Archeparchy of Pittsburgh.

Vico · Jan 12, 2012

5Loaves said:
Plus the little guys like my Russian Church.

For you:

rkcvo.ru/

davinpa · Jan 13, 2012

As a Catholic of Chinese descent myself, albeit in Indonesia, let me chime in a bit. A lot of people are clueless about the ECCs in this land, even our bishops, and even cardinal is clueless about the ECCs.
Quite a few of the replies already gave the answer to the original question, so I think I need not say much about it.
Btw, it sounds like the mission in the Philippines is going somewhere. We in Indonesia seem to have gotten nowhere so far. Most who are interested in the ECCs never go beyond the internet to make any real effort. The few of us who try to do effort seem to have quite a hard time. Well, at least the Melkites now have liturgical calendar in Bahasa Indonesia…

Please pray for our efforts to bring the melkites to Indonesia… :byzsoc: :highprayer:

ByzCathCantor · Jan 14, 2012

Sounds a lot like the experience of Eastern Catholics in the US when they began to arrive in the late 19th century. We would have hoped that things have progressed beyond that after more than a century has passed …

We pray for you, the Catholic Church, and especially the Melkite community in Indonesia!

:gopray2:

Vico · Jan 14, 2012

dav(name removed by moderator)a said:
As a Catholic of Chinese descent myself, albeit in Indonesia, let me chime in a bit. A lot of people are clueless about the ECCs in this land, even our bishops, and even cardinal is clueless about the ECCs.
Quite a few of the replies already gave the answer to the original question, so I think I need not say much about it.
Btw, it sounds like the mission in the Philippines is going somewhere. We in Indonesia seem to have gotten nowhere so far. Most who are interested in the ECCs never go beyond the internet to make any real effort. The few of us who try to do effort seem to have quite a hard time. Well, at least the Melkites now have liturgical calendar in Bahasa Indonesia…
Please pray for our efforts to bring the melkites to Indonesia… :byzsoc:

That means the bishops are not aware of their responsibilities as given in the 1983 Latin canons:

Can. 383 §1 In exercising his pastoral office, the diocesan Bishop is to be solicitous for all Christ’s faithful entrusted to his care, whatever their age, condition or nationality, whether they live in the territory or are visiting there. He is to show an apostolic spirit also to those who, because of their condition of life, are not sufficiently able to benefit from ordinary pastoral care, and to those who have lapsed from religious practice.

§2 If he has faithful of a different rite in his diocese, he is to provide for their spiritual needs either by means of priests or parishes of the same rite, or by an episcopal Vicar.

§3 He is to act with humanity and charity to those who are not in full communion with the catholic Church - he should also foster ecumenism as it is understood by the Church.

§4 He is to consider the non-baptised as commended to him in the Lord, so that the charity of Christ, of which the Bishop must be a witness to all, may shine also on them.

What every average latin rite cath should know about the ECCs?

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