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Drawmack
Guest
No chip, just what I’ve come to expect on these boards.
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Drawmack
Guest
Apologies are not proceeded with the word if.Yo, man, slow your roll. Wmscott apologized.
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ATL_Granny
Guest
Wow, I thought I was the only one who thought you had read a lot more into wmscott’s message than was there. I thought maybe there had been a long-standing feud between the two of you. Weren’t you the one who posted a couple of days ago how important it is to be kind and generous, even when the people on the other side of the table aren’t?
Sorry, from the sidelines it sure looks like you’re over-reacting.
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Drawmack
Guest
I don’t think so. I do not think that asking for an apology when someone reads things into my posts is asking too much when I am on a board where I have been chastised by moderators for exactly the same thing.Wow, I thought I was the only one who thought you had read a lot more into wmscott’s message than was there. I thought maybe there had been a long-standing feud between the two of you. Weren’t you the one who posted a couple of days ago how important it is to be kind and generous, even when the people on the other side of the table aren’t?
Sorry, from the sidelines it sure looks like you’re over-reacting.
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ATL_Granny
Guest
That may be true – I haven’t been on the board much. But, there’s a whale of a difference between someone flaming you and what he did. His was an innocent mistake wherein he overlooked the clarification you had made. Then he apologized in his initial comments. Although you feel it was weak, there is no need to take him out to the woodshed over it.
JMHO!
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wmscott
Guest
Thanks ATL Granny,
my intent was not to offend anyone and I certainly did not know the word “if” was so inflammatory. I do not know what Drawmack’s issue is, however I was genuine in my apology “if” and obviously I did misinterpret.What I find a little unsettling is when I extended the Peace of Christ to him, it was so callously rejected.
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Monte1945
Guest
Thank you for your kind words. I did look into the annulment and after a long talk
with the priest regarding the ways and means of it from the Church’s point of view.
And after some soul searching of within myself and the message that might
have given to some of my loved ones I decided that my case did not fit into
one where a annulment was proper and right for me. I think the church might
have allowed it, and righly so, but I wasn’t comfortable with it.
First there were/is daughters born of that marriage… I stayed in the
area and had them in my home more than they stayed with their mother
home… Their mother was and is a very dedicated Protestant Christian.
She has lived a good christian life. She has never been out or involved with
another man after our divorce. And this was thirty years ago.
The reason I decided to not get our marriage annuled was because I only belive in
divorce from an act of adultry to be the only reason of an annulment.
She has not done that.
If I was to procede for the annulment, even if the church would give me the
right to do so… “too me” it would seem that I was saying through my annulment
that she was not right in the church’s eyes… and I can not do that. She is
not a bad person and I can’t do anything to indicate that she wasn’t nor isn’t.
Of course this reason comes from the fact that I thinking more of my daughters
than anyone else… I could never act out anything in my life which might
indicate to them or the world that their mother was or is not a good person.
I talked to my daughters about this… and we all understand. They too did not
like the fact that both of us, their parents, have lived alone for such a long time
and they suggested that we both move on and find other people for ourselves.
The only fact that I even looked into the innulment was because I felt that I was
being called to end my years in a monastic order. I had been to a few of them
and was invited to come into two, which accept older men. I was told that if
I was to consider that, I would have to have my marriage annuled in order for me
to make Holy Vows with either of those orders.
After the four hour talk with Fr. Gerry who does the annulments here in the parish
I attend… I meditated on it all and came to the conclusions that I could not do that
to my ex-wife’s reputation and if that was sincerly what I felt, then my monastic
call was not to be. I have channeled my chiristian energies in other areas which
I can do outside of the Monastic order…
But all is not lost… I have found three monasteries which allow delayed retreats.
which means I can go, four to six months a year, one month at a time and live
the complete monastic life with the other monks. on a lay position… I can work and pray
with them for thirty days at a time. and that is enough. I just finished one of those retreats with a wonderful order of Bendictine Monks of the strickest order… and it was all that I felt it would be. And I found myself in a place where temptations were at their least… and for that month I felt more rightous and it gave me the faith to feel as Jesus said:
The prayer of a rightous man is powerful"…
my prayer was and is, simple… it is that God will not end this world as we know it
until all mankind has found Him through his Son Jesus…
There are rumors and writings of the deepest theologians which indicate that in the world there might be five thousand monks and lay persons who are praying that same prayer and out of the thousands, maybe one person’s rightousness is to the degree that that prayer is being answered constantly… for me a great opportunity for a call our world needs.
Please forgive me if my note is out of the topic… but I could not neglect your kind
words for me. I thank you.
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Monte1945
Guest
Thank you Micheal… your words have touched me and I appreciate your thoughts for me.
When I was left alone… and I had to go on with my life… To go to work, to be a divorced man in our church and the neighborhood, it was horrible. I would walk around feeling that I had failed or had some hidden guilt and this was God’s way of teaching me some kind of lesson. I was a young man. .but in my heart, in the back of my mind, I felt that there would be something which would happen to bring me to a better place or to give me feelings that I couldn’t find any other way… to make my point… I felt “hope”…
As I lived in that hope, and just did what I felt was what God wanted me to do. which was to continue on with my work so I could provide the things my daughters needed… and be there for them it would all work out.
I never did get another person to be with me as my wife was… but gradually I learned to
live with myself and still be able to get up and do that which would show the Glory of God as being enough to sustain me with less than others… And too me, this was a chance to
show a “witness” to the world that God and I made a majority… as St. Paul said.
And within that realationship God can give one the Grace and strenght to move forward still holding his light high above me… God is real. God is there with us no matter what life might give too us.
I never felt my wife was wrong in what she did… I didn’t understand why we couldn’t have had a mixed marriage but she just felt there was too much danger there… and though I didn’t nor do agree with her… I have to respect her feelings and beliefs…
She felt that she was endangering herself and the daughters to exposure to something wrong in allowing them a too close of a contact with the influenance of the Catholic Faith.
There are many people who think catholics are lead to just accept the doctrines of the faith through fear and threat of Hell’s fire… and that the average catholic believer does not have any exposure to the Grace of God but that they are just puppets to the catholic system. and though they are wrong… They are most sincere in their beliefs of their error.
Of course things worked out as they did. and I am telling you things and result which are now thirty years later… but it was not so plain during that time. I had to go through many nights of the dark soul… through it But now I can look back and see the Hand of God in
my life. I just took each day one day at a time. I went through some real encounters of the growth of my faith through Grace… I was confused, hurt and in shock for most of the first few years but in time, I was able to accept what was given to me, and I just got up each day and dedicated that day too the Lord and if something came up which was an opportunity for me to witness for the Faith I did.
I will not list all that I did, through all these years but I did many things from what I felt
God was calling from me. Being alone did give me time and opportunity to do things
in the church… and I have to believe that those things were meant to be.
But to stay in Topic here… let me add… From my sixty plus years of attempting to
respond to what I felt, was God’s Call. I have met many different people of all sizes, ages, creeds and colors who also were responding to what they felt was God’s call. and many of those Christians were not of the Catholic Faith and they did good work for the Kingdom of God here and now… There are many many non-catholic christians who believe many of the same doctrines the Catholic Believes and are only shy of a few of our doctrines… they just have never been taught of them… I see most of these other denominations as christians
with less of the many wonderful gifts God has given to us Catholics thorugh our Sacraments.
I can’t count the number of non-catholics christians who have asked me of our doctrines and when I have explained them as I find them, they have all… just nodded their heads and saw how that can be believed… most have said… “I have never heard of that being explained like that before”… Most of them are shocked that they find I can quote the scriptures… they actually think catholics don’t read the bible or know what is in there.
That the priests of the church keep it from us…
Most of the problem is just lack of communication… it isn’t that which we believe is the reason for the gap between Catholic and non catholic christians it is just that we have evangulized our faith out in the open as many of them do… They are better at being witnesses to the world of explaining their doctrines… we have shown the world our faith thorugh the news of what the Vatican is doing … etc… but to walk up and have open convesations to the non-catholics we are not as strong… thus they have these misconceptions of what we actually believe…
I can share one of the ways in which I have opened this up… in my life… When ever I an invited to homes of non-catholics for a meal and someone will say the Grace for the meal… I will make the sign of the cross and speak out loud… "in the Name of the Father etc… and it never fails that later… when we are talking in small groups… someone will
one will bring up the fact of “so you are a catholic”… and we shall begin the sharing of our faith… most of them are very interested in what we believe but lack the opportunity to hear of it…
That is why I like this forum… so full of opportunities to share our beliefs… at least to have a chance to show we are not just blind puppets following the orders of the pope without thought or knowledge of God’s Truths revealved…
God bless…
A
ATL_Granny
Guest
Monte~
Before I get clobbered by anyone, I want to say that I know your overall objection to getting an annulment is based on false premises that your wife is somehow a bad person. Such is not the case as the Church only looks on how well prepared both of you were to making the life-long commitment necessary to realize it was a Sacramental union which could not be broken. It has nothing at all to do with whether someone is or was good or bad – only their understanding of the commitment at the day they were married. (Although I fall into the camp of someone who WANTED to get an annulment based on my ex-husband’s infidelity and felt that was sufficient grounds for an annulment. It took a while, but I finally came to understand and appreciate the Church’s reasoning.)
There are certainly times when someone may feel in their heart that an annulment isn’t right for them. Some day the draw of the monastery may be strong enough to get you beyond your objections, but God is also still in the miracle business. There is still the possibility that your wife will see your loyal service to God as a testimony to your fidelity and honor as a man. And that may be enough for her to soften her heart, realizing that you’re not nearly the threat to her eternal salvation that she had thought you were.
Who knows? Only God. Until the day we take our last breath, we can only make God laugh when we tell Him what our plans are for our future!
Once again, I salute your honor and what you have given up for the sake of following Him. :tiphat:
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Drawmack
Guest
And, your opinion is appreciated. But, seriously any Christian and especially a Catholic should understand that true, heartfelt apologies do not start with the word if. Would a priest accept forgive me father if I have sinned as an act of contrition?
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Drawmack
Guest
I did not reject it. I simply stated that I didn’t really expect a sincere apology.Thanks ATL Granny,
What I find a little unsettling is when I extended the Peace of Christ to him, it was so callously rejected.
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ATL_Granny
Guest
Drawmack:
You know, I really am puzzled as to why you’re taking this to such a level. I haven’t gone back and re-read the entire thread, but I’ve been following it from the beginning. There has not been one hint of animosity shown towards you by anyone that I could see.
The guy made a mistake. The word you’re hanging your reputation on is “if.” If I recall correctly, he explained his position and then said something like “if he’d made a mistake in understanding,” he apologized. That’s common protocol – it has nothing to do with this guy trying to avoid apologizing. Your reaction to his response is what is alarming — putting it on the same level as flaming when it was clearly nothing of the kind.
As a newbie here, it sure seems like you’re making mountains out of mole-hills. All I can do is scratch my head and wonder (sadly) if this is a habit or an aberration. I guess time will tell.
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wmscott
Guest
Grannies great, they make the best diplomats and peace makers. 
Got to love them Grannies. Thanks
Got to love them Grannies. Thanks
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Drawmack
Guest
Let me ask you this. If it really is not a big deal then why didn’t he just apologize without the if when I asked for it? Why refuse to remove the if, since it really is not a big deal?
Here is the problem. This is an on-going issue with many people on this site. Every time someone who is not Catholic posts anything they are completely taken to task, most of the time over things they didn’t even say. I saw one thread where people were ripping a priest apart because he was coming to the defense of an Anglican Padre. They went to far as to accuse the priest’s seminary of improper theological training. There is never an apology offered, there is usually not even an admission of wrong doing on the Catholic’s part. I was taken to task one time as not understanding the Catholic faith when I was quoting the CCC – I didn’t even interpret what it said I simply quoted it!
But, if anyone who is not Catholic behaves this way on the site they are told about it by the moderators.
Now, his original post said that he apologized “if [he] misinterpreted me”. In my response I said that he went beyond misinterpretation and crossed the line into reading things into the post that simply were not there. The man attacked me for saying that Catholics shouldn’t defend their religion, when I said no such thing and no reasonable person could even construe my words as such. I asked for an apology for this, which is something other than he originally apologized for. And, I am greeted as being unreasonable for asking for that apology but he is held as perfectly reasonable for refusing to grant the apology.
And, you honestly don’t see what has me rankled?
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Ignatius
Guest
When I read todays first reading (1 Kings 2-2) I thought “C’mon Drawmack, be a man (1 King 2-2); get over it and let’s move on.”
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wmscott
Guest
Drawmack, to end all of this…I am Sorry. Peace.
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Drawmack
Guest
Thank you
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wmscott
Guest
So, back on to the topic at hand, does anyone know if groups like the Catholic Anti-Defamation League, or similar groups, can or will do anything about these folks? On the other hand, is this just small potatoes and not worth their time and resources to pursue?
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wmscott
Guest
I guess another question/observation I have about sites and groups like these, is why do they feel that they need to get out there and defame another Christian religion. Why do they care so much that they spend money and resources to try to cast doubt or shake someone’s faith. Really, why do they care if I or anyone else believes the way we do?
Don’t they realize that we are Christians, we believe in Christ, and his Word. Obviously, there are differences of opinions, but that is no reason to spread lies and falsehoods about the Christian beliefs of Catholics. This can be seen as being a little un-Christian like and hypocritical. Has God suddenly come down to them and them alone, and finally, after 2000years imparted the real truth on them.
I find the site very offensive, offensive in their portrayal of the Catholic faith and Catholics as seeing the Gospels of our Lord as being offensive to us because we are lost. Taken from their site: “we understand that the Gospel of Jesus Christ will be offensive to those who are perishing, but will be life unto those who are being saved”. Therefore, because of their inside track with God, they now have knowledge of the state of Catholic souls and place in all eternity. A little elitist in my view. Seems that they should take heed to Matt 12:36 - I tell you, on the day of judgment people will render an account for every careless word they speak.
I went in further to extract examples of where they are misleading and spreading blatant falsehoods about the Catholic faith, and after several examples, I was so frustrated and offended that I had to… just let it go.
This is not Gods work, or works of Christian charity in any means or form. Where is their shame?
Don’t they realize that we are Christians, we believe in Christ, and his Word. Obviously, there are differences of opinions, but that is no reason to spread lies and falsehoods about the Christian beliefs of Catholics. This can be seen as being a little un-Christian like and hypocritical. Has God suddenly come down to them and them alone, and finally, after 2000years imparted the real truth on them.
I find the site very offensive, offensive in their portrayal of the Catholic faith and Catholics as seeing the Gospels of our Lord as being offensive to us because we are lost. Taken from their site: “we understand that the Gospel of Jesus Christ will be offensive to those who are perishing, but will be life unto those who are being saved”. Therefore, because of their inside track with God, they now have knowledge of the state of Catholic souls and place in all eternity. A little elitist in my view. Seems that they should take heed to Matt 12:36 - I tell you, on the day of judgment people will render an account for every careless word they speak.
I went in further to extract examples of where they are misleading and spreading blatant falsehoods about the Catholic faith, and after several examples, I was so frustrated and offended that I had to… just let it go.
This is not Gods work, or works of Christian charity in any means or form. Where is their shame?
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DCNBILL
Guest
Ahh, remember brother, the “father of lies” is still at work in the world.
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