What exactly is the Church's stance on a future marriage with a divorced man?

[Phemie]

Also, remember that we are not engaged yet, just still dating. This is why I’m trying to find out about this now.
So what priest? My diocese, or where he was married? We live in different states.

It has nothing to do with you – at least where the church is concerned.

He has to do this himself. He goes to the Catholic parish where he lives, talks to the priest and then he’ll learn where he goes from there. There will be a very personal interview, a request for witnesses who knew him and his ex at the time of their wedding.

The Tribunal will look at what was going on at the time that he spoke his vows. There are certain things required for a marriage to be valid and the Tribunal will try to determine if all the requirements were met at the time the vows were spoken. It they weren’t your BF may be granted a decree of nullity.

Then you can proceed with your relationship.

 

[katillac1]

"I don’t understand why people think its a bad thing that the Catholic church actually wants to uphold people to their vows. One person’s actions (such as infidelity) does not make the vows invalid.

So by your theory, a person that was in, say, a horrible abusive relationship that was valid at the time of the wedding, can get a divorce, and then never remarry because the Church thinks it was valid from the get go?
Do you really think God would back up that marriage, just because the Tribunal found it valid?

I will still read the book.

 

[michaelcollins]

So by your theory, a person that was in, say, a horrible abusive relationship that was valid at the time of the wedding, can get a divorce, and then never remarry because the Church thinks it was valid from the get go?
Do you really think God would back up that marriage, just because the Tribunal found it valid?

I will still read the book.

I am confused, you say on your profile you are catholic-did you not know the churches position on marriage, divorce etc? I was a noncatholic and knew the churches stance and that I would have to get an anulment to be remarried in the church.

 

[1ke]

I’ve read it can take up to a year or more to process an annulment.

This depends on the diocese and how many cases they have. It also depends upon the complexity of the individual case, the documentation provided, etc.

It can range between a few months and over 1 year.

In that time period, can we get engaged?

It is not prudent to get engaged, which typically starts a whirlwind of well-wishers, party planning, wedding planning, and expectation setting. If you were to get engaged and then find out he was not free to marry, how hard would that be? Who would you “let down” other than just him? Parents? Friends? Family?

Honestly, engagement should not come until you know he is free to get married.

But, it is something you should talk with your priest about.

Can we start the premarital counseling before the annulment is finalized?

That is an excellent idea.

So if I get engaged to today, it will be a minimum of about 2 years before we can get married?

Yes, it could be that long, or longer. And, engagement leads to a set of expectations and behaviors you probably want to avoid until his situation is more clear.

At least talk to your priest first.

Also he has not had any contact with the ex, so how is he supposed to provide her whereabouts?

He can provide the tribunal with what info he has. He is not required to track her down. The marriage certificate, divorce decree, and last known address are all he would need to give them.

And, I see you started to get angry and asked questions about how the Tribunal has authority in the matter-- again I really encourage you to get the book and read it as this is also covered. But, in short, Christ himself established the Church and gave the Church-- through the Bishops-- to bind and loose. See Matthew 16:15-20 and Matthew 18:18. Binding and loosing includes making determinations of this kind.

 

[Agripa]

"I don’t understand why people think its a bad thing that the Catholic church actually wants to uphold people to their vows. One person’s actions (such as infidelity) does not make the vows invalid.

So by your theory, a person that was in, say, a horrible abusive relationship that was valid at the time of the wedding, can get a divorce, and then never remarry because the Church thinks it was valid from the get go?
Do you really think God would back up that marriage, just because the Tribunal found it valid?

I will still read the book.

The Church must eveolve in many quarters, certainly this is one area. Us “cradle” Catholics know full well the tale of the wife, eyes black and blue, crying to the priest about how horrible her marriage is, only to have the priest tell her she must pass through many Good Fridays before she can participate in Easter!! Again, you must follow your heart and don’t look for validation from the poster’s here - its folly to debate them. Their eyes look elsewhere.

 

[katillac1]

I am confused, you say on your profile you are catholic-did you not know the churches position on marriage, divorce etc? I was a noncatholic and knew the churches stance and that I would have to get an anulment to be remarried in the church.

Well I knew that you had to get a marriage annulled, but I did not know that applied to non-Catholics and had to be done in order to pursue a second marriage. The way I understood it, you just had to get an annulment instead of a divorce. I know better now.

And 1ke, thanks for answering my questions, I know I’m being difficult.

 

[agapewolf]

"I don’t understand why people think its a bad thing that the Catholic church actually wants to uphold people to their vows. One person’s actions (such as infidelity) does not make the vows invalid.

So by your theory, a person that was in, say, a horrible abusive relationship that was valid at the time of the wedding, can get a divorce, and then never remarry because the Church thinks it was valid from the get go?
Do you really think God would back up that marriage, just because the Tribunal found it valid?

I will still read the book.

First of all, lets get something straight. What I am saying is NOT a theory. It is the truth. Handed down from Christ through the church. It is what “is”.

and yes, if a marriage is valid at the time of the wedding, and it turns abusive, it is STILL a valid marriage. “in sickness and in health”. That doesn’t mean the person should stay with abusive spouse, but they have vowed to be faithful. The tribunal does NOT work seperate from God. The tribunal is finding the truth that exists…whether the Marriage was in God’s eyes or not, so just as Christ told Peter “upon this Rock I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven” is what the tribunal is trying to discover. The tribunal has no agenda. They look at the time of the vows, see if there are any impediments, see if the 2 people were free to make the vows, etc, etc. IF they were, then the tribunal cannot say that the marriage is invalid. They only say what already exists in one way or another.

 

[michaelcollins]

Well I knew that you had to get a marriage annulled, but I did not know that applied to non-Catholics and had to be done in order to pursue a second marriage. The way I understood it, you just had to get an annulment instead of a divorce. I know better now.

And 1ke, thanks for answering my questions, I know I’m being difficult.

My exwife did not participate in the anullment proceedings. The church provides for the proceedings and I wont get into it cause I did not have to do a lot, I filled out the petition and sent in answrers to questions and had a certain number of friend who they wanted to validate what I sent in, not a complicated process and I dont recall that it lasted a long time. My marriage was more complicated than yours(boyfriends) because I was married in the church.

I strongly recommend you go through with the process. If it is worth him marrying you he will do the process.

 

[Cristiano]

The Church must eveolve in many quarters, certainly this is one area. Us “cradle” Catholics know full well the tale of the wife, eyes black and blue, crying to the priest about how horrible her marriage is, only to have the priest tell her she must pass through many Good Fridays before she can participate in Easter!! Again, you must follow your heart and don’t look for validation from the poster’s here - its folly to debate them. Their eyes look elsewhere.

Are you for real? Where do you come from with this nonsense?

Do you have the intellectual honesty to tell her not to believe in the Catholic Church and to risk her eternal salvation if she is wrong? Are you just trying to mislead her with wife tales about feeling good?

She has to make a difficult moral and personal choice, give her the respect that she deserves by being upfront with your beliefs and not just playing with emotions. She is being honest, you are not.

 

[whatevergirl]

katillac–with all due respect…take a deep breath…and just relax. It is overwhelming to take it all in at once. Take this all in steps. It’s not the end of the world if you both wait an additional year or so to get engaged…and if it is, not sure what to tell you then! We want to best help you, and I apologize if anything I said came across wrong. I was in your shoes, not dating a divorced man, but as it relates to being ‘ignorant’ of some Catholic doctrine. I know the feeling, and it’s like someone pulls the carpet out from beneath you…what??? That can’t be…why didn’t I know this? But, as time goes on, and you learn more and more…it will all make sense.

Just take each day and step at a time…praying for you…God bless!

 

[whatevergirl]

The Church must eveolve in many quarters, certainly this is one area. Us “cradle” Catholics know full well the tale of the wife, eyes black and blue, crying to the priest about how horrible her marriage is, only to have the priest tell her she must pass through many Good Fridays before she can participate in Easter!! Again, you must follow your heart and don’t look for validation from the poster’s here - its folly to debate them. Their eyes look elsewhere.

It’s a terrible shame that you feel Catholicism is like this.

 

[katillac1]

Thanks everyone for your help and prayers.
I’m just frustrated and scared.

 

[1ke]

Well I knew that you had to get a marriage annulled, but I did not know that applied to non-Catholics and had to be done in order to pursue a second marriage. The way I understood it, you just had to get an annulment instead of a divorce. I know better now.

And 1ke, thanks for answering my questions, I know I’m being difficult.

There are a lot of people, Catholics included, who view a decree of nullity as a “Catholic divorce.” This is of course exacerbated by the media-- which are often inaccurate and ill-informed. How many movies of the week have had inaccurate info on Catholic teaching?

You aren’t being difficult. You are trying to learn. And, some people are being more helpful than others-- the person who is basically prompting you to ignore the Church and do as you please is giving you dangerous advice.

You can get good info on a website like this, but the best place to start is with a visit to your priest. You should go together-- you and the boyfriend-- and discuss the situation.

 

[Agripa]

Are you for real? Where do you come from with this nonsense?

Do you have the intellectual honesty to tell her not to believe in the Catholic Church and to risk her eternal salvation if she is wrong? Are you just trying to mislead her with wife tales about feeling good?

She has to make a difficult moral and personal choice, give her the respect that she deserves by being upfront with your beliefs and not just playing with emotions. She is being honest, you are not.

How am I not being honest and who are you to to decide what will and will not risk “eternal salvation”?? How dare you say I mislead - I am offering frank opinion and every right to do so. She is presumably an adult capable of drawing conclusions from all sorts of opinions, facts and rules (from this site or elsewhere) and then decide for herself.

Your words reveal quite an arrogance!!

 

[michaelcollins]

Thanks everyone for your help and prayers.
I’m just frustrated and scared.

Everyone catholics included has those feelings at some time, keep on search for truth and let Christ be your guide and you will not fail.

One caution, while saying otherwise, in response to a lot of catholics worship idols, pray to Mary, etc etc, protestants go overboard with Bible worship. Yes the Bible is the holy word of God but not all teachings are in the Bible, sola scripta, (only the Bible as viewed by protestants) is not contained in the Bible, so the very doctrine which forms the basis for all protestant believes is not contained in the Bible. Jesus both learned and taught by oral tradition. The Bible was not widely available until after the invention of the printing press, God would not have waited for an invention to give truth to his people.

 

[agapewolf]

How am I not being honest and who are you to to decide what will and will not risk “eternal salvation”?? How dare you say I mislead - I am offering frank opinion and every right to do so. She is presumably an adult capable of drawing conclusions from all sorts of opinions, facts and rules (from this site or elsewhere) and then decide for herself.

Your words reveal quite an arrogance!!

No they don’t. The poster you were speaking to, as well as the rest of us are not deciding what will risk eternal salvation. That is put forth to us by Christ, handed down through the church. We are simply stating what is.

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

"I don’t understand why people think its a bad thing that the Catholic church actually wants to uphold people to their vows. One person’s actions (such as infidelity) does not make the vows invalid.

So by your theory, a person that was in, say, a horrible abusive relationship that was valid at the time of the wedding, can get a divorce, and then never remarry because the Church thinks it was valid from the get go?
Do you really think God would back up that marriage, just because the Tribunal found it valid?

I will still read the book.

We believe as Catholics that when two people get married a bond is created that cannot be unbound here on earth. “An therefore what God hath joined together, let no man put asunder.” Mark 10:9 A tribunal cannot dissolve a marriage that is valid and consummated, no matter how horrible one of the parties involved is behaving. The tribunal can look into it to see if the marriage was never valid to begin with they can see if on the day the vows were exchanged there was something missing/wrong that made the marriage invalid. If they find this is the case, then a Decree of Nullity can be issued. This does not mean that the tribunal has dissolved the marriage, it is impossible for us to dissolve a valid marriage, it simply means the marriage was not there to begin with.
How about this analogy (sorry, I’m not that good at coming up with analogies, but bear with me). A young teen is being brought up by his dad. At first his dad was loving and caring, but slowly he got involved in drugs and alcohol and finally became abusive and the young teen was removed from his home. This young man cannot believe how his dad was treating him and decided he wanted a paternity test to see if that abusive man was actually his dad. The results will not be based on what type of dad the man is now, but on whether or not the boy is biologically related in a father son relationship to this man. No matter what the father or son do now, there is nothing they can do to change whether or not they are biologically related.
The tribunal just checks to see whether or not the couple in question holds an indissoluble bond or not, regardless if they have changed later on down the road.

 

[dulcissima]

Since your boyfriend is not Catholic, he does not have to his previous marriage investigated by the tribunal of a Roman Catholic diocese. He could have his petition reviewed by the tribunal of another rite, such as Maronite or Ruthenian. I understand that by going to one of these rites, the time involved is much less since their tribunals do not have the same workload.

I went to a class on the process and was advised this by the judicial vicar for the Maronite Eparchy.

You can get more info here:
usamaronite.org/forms.html

He said the process there is about 6 months.

 

[katillac1]

Here is an interesting philosophical question I just thought of.
Does the Church have an answer to when the union occurs? Like does it happen at the wedding? Or…
If God knows us even before we are born and knows everything about our past, present and future, has he already joined two people together before the two persons came into existence?
I guess what I’m trying to ask is that does he “ok” a marriage that occured out of human free will at that particular time, or did God expect and conjoin a couple as he knew it was going to happen? Not that we do not have free will, but that he just already knows. Just curious as I have learned that God is not constrained by time as we know it.
If that is the case, is a marriage that fails not the one God meant to be ever binding in love with Him, but maybe one of the stepping stones along the way to what he meant for us?
We sin, but God forgives us, we make mistakes and are able to make things right with Him, why not the same for marriage?
I know the scripture that states when a man divorces his wife and marrys another, he is committing adultery…
Just thinkin’ out loud here. Opinions?

 

[katillac1]

Since your boyfriend is not Catholic, he does not have to his previous marriage investigated by the tribunal of a Roman Catholic diocese. He could have his petition reviewed by the tribunal of another rite, such as Maronite or Ruthenian. I understand that by going to one of these rites, the time involved is much less since their tribunals do not have the same workload.

I went to a class on the process and was advised this by the judicial vicar for the Maronite Eparchy.

You can get more info here:
usamaronite.org/forms.html

He said the process there is about 6 months.

Wow, thanks!