What exactly is the soul?

[Aloysium]

Originally Posted by Aloysium

That seems to be the question of the day. You tell me. There are things you know, correct? How do you do that? You do it all the time.
If you could define what you mean by a thought, it would help me provide you with an answer.
It is obvious to me, you see.

 

[GEddie]

Well, of course a “slice of brain” is not enough to think.

You need the whole brain, and because brains aren’t designed to live outside their heads, you really need the whole body.

Let’s keep the mind-gaming realistic.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Faith1960]

1. Operates the body (limbs, voice, neck, eyes, etc).
2. Regulates the body (breathing, muscle tone, body temperature, etc).
3. Gathers information from eyes, nose, skin etc to form a unified sensorium.
4. Acts as a nexus between body (and the world via the sensorium) and the human soul/rational mind.

As Khalil Gibran said, “Without the body the soul is but an empty wind; without the soul the body is but a senseless frame.”

ICXC NIKA

I just read part of an article about some breakthroughs for MS and it said the brain is responsible for the movements of the entire body. Would you agree?

 

[GEddie]

I just read part of an article about some breakthroughs for MS and it said the brain is responsible for the movements of the entire body. Would you agree?

What are you getting at, Chica?

That sounds just like case 1).

ICXC NIKA

 

[BartholomewB]

1. Operates the body (limbs, voice, neck, eyes, etc).
2. Regulates the body (breathing, muscle tone, body temperature, etc).
3. Gathers information from eyes, nose, skin etc to form a unified sensorium.
4. Acts as a nexus between body (and the world via the sensorium) and the human soul/rational mind.

As Khalil Gibran said, “Without the body the soul is but an empty wind; without the soul the body is but a senseless frame.”

ICXC NIKA

An animal’s brain does 1, 2, and 3. And it also acts as a nexus between the body/sensorium and whatever it is that prompts the spider to spin its web, the bat to change course to avoid a collision with an immovable object, and the dog to bark at the wheelbarrow. Do they have minds? Souls? Psyches? I don’t know the answer, but I’m inclined to suspect that it’s more a matter of language than anything else. If we choose to define the term soul, mind, or psyche in such a way that our definition is compatible with a dog or a spider having one, then the answer can only be Yes. But if we choose some other definition, then the answer is No.

 

[Faith1960]

What are you getting at, Chica?

That sounds just like case 1).

ICXC NIKA

Just making sure.

 

[Faith1960]

Well, of course a “slice of brain” is not enough to think.

You need the whole brain, and because brains aren’t designed to live outside their heads, you really need the whole body.

Let’s keep the mind-gaming realistic.g

ICXC NIKA

I know it sounds far fetched but how do we know a whole brain cant think without a whole body? (This sounds like something out of a movie)

For instance, at the risk of being gruesome, if a person is beheaded, is that head capable of thinking before brain death? I’d say it is. Or at least for several seconds.

 

[BartholomewB]

For instance, at the risk of being gruesome, if a person is beheaded, is that head capable of thinking before brain death? I’d say it is. Or at least for several seconds.

Yes, it is. That was one of the arguments used in France by the campaign for the abolition of the death penalty, in the mid-twentieth century. I don’t remember the details now, but I once read something Albert Camus, I think it was, had written years earlier about observations made by medical personnel and others who witnessed executions by the guillotine.

 

[Faith1960]

Yes, it is. That was one of the arguments used in France by the campaign for the abolition of the death penalty, in the mid-twentieth century. I don’t remember the details now, but I once read something Albert Camus, I think it was, had written years earlier about observations made by medical personnel and others who witnessed executions by the guillotine.

So what does that say about the brain not being able to think without a body?

 

[GEddie]

So what does that say about the brain needing the body to think?

It needs the body for **holding life; **as the head cannot remain alive unless kept filled with breath-filled blood, etc.

After beheading, the brain is dying rather than alive, and, as when the head dies on its shoulders, some clouded thinking may well (or not) occur before death.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Faith1960]

It needs the body for **holding life; **as the head cannot remain alive unless kept filled with breath-filled blood, etc.

After beheading, the brain is dying rather than alive, and, as when the head dies on its shoulders, some clouded thinking may well (or not) occur before death.

ICXC NIKA

Dying? yes. Instantly dead? no. According to the How Stuff Works site, the brain can remain concious for a few seconds.

 

[GEddie]

So what does that say about the brain needing the body to think?
On the site How Stuff Works, it says that eyes can blink after a beheading and one woman from the 1700’s was slapped after a beheading and her face took on the look of indignance.

It really depends on how the body is beheaded.

In a classical beheading, via a heavy chop to the back of the neck; the shock to the brain stem (just above the back of the neck) which governs consciousness, would end the body’s consciousness.

Facial movements don’t prove much. Shock to the spinal cord can make muscles move. Hands and feet have been reported to move during beheadings, as well.

In a terrorist beheading where the neck is slowly cut from the Adams-Apple side, there would be more time for the mind to think.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Faith1960]

It really depends on how the body is beheaded.

In a classical beheading, via a heavy chop to the back of the neck; the shock to the brain stem (just above the back of the neck) which governs consciousness, would end the body’s consciousness.

Facial movements don’t prove much. Shock to the spinal cord can make muscles move. Hands and feet have been reported to move during beheadings, as well.

In a terrorist beheading where the neck is slowly cut from the Adams-Apple side, there would be more time for the mind to think.

ICXC NIKA

I deleted that about the woman blinking and looking indignant. I read further and it said most doctors now say thats reflexes, but that the brain can be concious for a few seconds.

 

[ynotzap]

I know it sounds far fetched but how do we know a whole brain cant think without a whole body? (This sounds like something out of a movie)

For instance, at the risk of being gruesome, if a person is beheaded, is that head capable of thinking before brain death? I’d say it is. Or at least for several seconds.

The heart is the first physical instrument through which the soul moves the other parts of the body. therefore as a mover, the soul is united to the other parts of the body through the medium of the heart. As the form of the body, the soul is united to every part of the body essentially and directly. the being of man is the union of matter and spirit, body and soul, one is incomplete without the other. It is the soul that abstracts from the physical image called the phantom image, the spiritual concepts The brain stores all of the imput of sensible realities, things that are sensed through the senses and fed to the brain. Again in this life the soul in dependent upon the body to supply it this sensory imput to be able to abstract intellectual concepts which are spiritual, concepts which will give the person understanding, knowledge of universal truths. The intellect;, a power of the soul does not need a bodily organ in its operations as the senses do. The human soul is the Act of an organic body because the body is an organ
The intelligible species (concepts) is made to be actually understood by abstraction from the phantasms; (sensible image) If the body fails in sensing, the soul will not be able to abstract thoughts from what is sensed, but the soul will still retain its abilities to abstract intelligible species (thoughts, which are spiritual, not physical, they can only be understood not sensed)

 

[Faith1960]

The heart is the first physical instrument through which the soul moves the other parts of the body. therefore as a mover, the soul is united to the other parts of the body through the medium of the heart. As the form of the body, the soul is united to every part of the body essentially and directly. the being of man is the union of matter and spirit, body and soul, one is incomplete without the other. It is the soul that abstracts from the physical image called the phantom image, the spiritual concepts The brain stores all of the imput of sensible realities, things that are sensed through the senses and fed to the brain. Again in this life the soul in dependent upon the body to supply it this sensory imput to be able to abstract intellectual concepts which are spiritual, concepts which will give the person understanding, knowledge of universal truths. The intellect;, a power of the soul does not need a bodily organ in its operations as the senses do. The human soul is the Act of an organic body because the body is an organ
The intelligible species (concepts) is made to be actually understood by abstraction from the phantasms; (sensible image) If the body fails in sensing, the soul will not be able to abstract thoughts from what is sensed, but the soul will still retain its abilities to abstract intelligible species (thoughts, which are spiritual, not physical, they can only be understood not sensed)

In English please?

 

[GEddie]

In English please?

I think he’s saying that the Soul acts on Body through the heart, and not the brain.

I’d have to take issue with him on this. If it were true, heart transplants could not take place without changing the soul.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Linusthe2nd]

I think he’s saying that the Soul acts on Body through the heart, and not the brain.

I’d have to take issue with him on this. If it were true, heart transplants could not take place without changing the soul.

ICXC NIKA

Yes I agree. It is clear that the soul governs man through the brain. I also say that all memories are retained in the soul.

Linus2nd

 

[Aloysium]

And then there was Mike the headless chicken - a true story, best left for midnight campfires under starry skies.

 

[GEddie]

And then there was Mike the headless chicken - a true story, best left for midnight campfires under starry skies.

Chickens can move around briefly without their heads, but human life has no such ability.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Faith1960]

That seems to be the question of the day. You tell me. There are things you know, correct? How do you do that? You do it all the time.
If you could define what you mean by a thought, it would help me provide you with an answer.
It is obvious to me, you see.

By thoughts, I mean the words and images in ones head.