What exactly makes one Christian?

[Michal_Obrebski]

JWs do not believe Jesus to be God the Son.

Well, I don’t know their beliefs. But if they don’t believe Jesus to be God then indeed, they are something Christian-like, not really Christian.
Michał Obrębski

 

[ldeschambault]

The origin of the term “Christian” was in the city of Antioch in the first century A.D. (see Acts 11:26). It is possible that, at first, the term “Christian” was intended to be an insult. The word essentially means “little Christ.” However, over the centuries, believers in Christ have adopted the term “Christian” and use it to identify themselves as followers of Jesus Christ. A simple definition of a Christian is a person who follows Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ declared that He “did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many” (Mark 10:45). The question then arises – why did we need to be ransomed? The idea of a ransom is a payment that must be made in exchange for the release of a person. The idea of a ransom is most frequently used in instances of kidnapping, when someone is kidnapped and held prisoner until a ransom is paid for the person’s release.

Jesus paid our ransom to free us from bondage! Bondage from what? Bondage to sin and its consequences, physical death followed by eternal separation from God. Why did Jesus need to pay this ransom? Because we are all infected with sin (Romans 3:23), and are therefore worthy of judgment from God (Romans 6:23). How did Jesus pay our ransom? By dying on the cross to pay the penalty for our sins (1 Corinthians 15:3; 2 Corinthians 5:21). How could Jesus’ death sufficiently pay for all of our sins? Jesus was God in human form, God come to earth to become one of us so He could identify with us and die for our sins (John 1:1,14). As God, Jesus’ death was infinite in value, sufficient to pay for the sins of the entire world (1 John 2:2). Jesus’ resurrection after His death demonstrated that His death was the sufficient sacrifice, that He had truly conquered sin and death.

Because of His love for us, God has made it exceedingly simple to become a Christian. All you have to do is receive Jesus as your Savior, fully accepting His death as the sufficient sacrifice for your sins (John 3:16), fully trusting Him alone as your Savior (John 14:6; Acts 4:12). Becoming a Christian is not all about rituals, going to church, or doing certain things while refraining from other things. Becoming a Christian is all about having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. A personal relationship with Jesus Christ, through faith, is what makes a person a Christian (Eph 2:8-9).

 

[thenobes]

The origin of the term “Christian” was in the city of Antioch in the first century A.D. (see Acts 11:26). It is possible that, at first, the term “Christian” was intended to be an insult. The word essentially means “little Christ.” However, over the centuries, believers in Christ have adopted the term “Christian” and use it to identify themselves as followers of Jesus Christ. A simple definition of a Christian is a person who follows Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ declared that He “did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many” (Mark 10:45). The question then arises – why did we need to be ransomed? The idea of a ransom is a payment that must be made in exchange for the release of a person. The idea of a ransom is most frequently used in instances of kidnapping, when someone is kidnapped and held prisoner until a ransom is paid for the person’s release.

Jesus paid our ransom to free us from bondage! Bondage from what? Bondage to sin and its consequences, physical death followed by eternal separation from God. Why did Jesus need to pay this ransom? Because we are all infected with sin (Romans 3:23), and are therefore worthy of judgment from God (Romans 6:23). How did Jesus pay our ransom? By dying on the cross to pay the penalty for our sins (1 Corinthians 15:3; 2 Corinthians 5:21). How could Jesus’ death sufficiently pay for all of our sins? Jesus was God in human form, God come to earth to become one of us so He could identify with us and die for our sins (John 1:1,14). As God, Jesus’ death was infinite in value, sufficient to pay for the sins of the entire world (1 John 2:2). Jesus’ resurrection after His death demonstrated that His death was the sufficient sacrifice, that He had truly conquered sin and death.

Because of His love for us, God has made it exceedingly simple to become a Christian. All you have to do is receive Jesus as your Savior, fully accepting His death as the sufficient sacrifice for your sins (John 3:16), fully trusting Him alone as your Savior (John 14:6; Acts 4:12). Becoming a Christian is not all about rituals, going to church, or doing certain things while refraining from other things. Becoming a Christian is all about having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. A personal relationship with Jesus Christ, through faith, is what makes a person a Christian (Eph 2:8-9).

You’re reasoning is somewhat confused. For instance a ransom is not a penalty. Jesus became a sin offering to the Father for our sins, propitiating His anger. The ransom is that by Christ’s death we can walk away from sin with a clean conscience of having been forgiven. Sin cannot use our guilt, self recrimination, and resignation as a chain to bring us back to sinning again.

Furthermore, Jesus is our Lord as well as Savior, meaning we must obey His Commands and those of the people He has chosen to lead His Church. Thus there are no empty rituals in the Church, just people who don’t want to listen closely enough to the Church to find the meaning behind those rituals.

peace
steve

 

[ldeschambault]

To clarify the first part of your response, a ransom is something that is paid to provide for the release of someone who is held captive. Jesus paid our ransom to free us from sin, death, and hell. Throughout the books of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy are found God’s requirements for sacrifices. In Old Testament times, God commanded the Israelites to make animal sacrifices for substitutionary atonement; that is, an animal’s death took the place of a person’s death, death being the penalty for sin (Romans 6:23). Exodus 29:36a states, “Each day you must sacrifice a young bull as an offering for the atonement of sin.”

God demands holiness (1 Peter 1:15-16). God’s Law demands holiness. We cannot give God full holiness because of the sins we commit (Romans 3:23); therefore, God demands satisfaction of His Law. Sacrifices to Him satisfied the requirements. This is where Jesus comes in. Hebrews 9:12-15 tells us “Once for all time he took blood into that Most Holy Place, but not the blood of goats and calves. He took his own blood, and with it he secured our salvation forever. Under the old system, the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a young cow could cleanse people’s bodies from ritual defilement. Just think how much more the blood of Christ will purify our hearts from deeds that lead to death so that we can worship the living God. For by the power of the eternal Spirit, Christ offered himself to God as a perfect sacrifice for our sins. That is why he is the one who mediates the new covenant between God and people, so that all who are invited can receive the eternal inheritance God has promised them. For Christ died to set them free from the penalty of the sins they had committed under that first covenant.”

Also, read Romans 8:3-4, “The law of Moses could not save us, because of our sinful nature. But God put into effect a different plan to save us. He sent his own Son in a human body like ours, except that ours are sinful. God destroyed sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins. He did this so that the requirement of the law would be fully accomplished for us who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit.”

Clearly, Jesus paid the ransom for our lives to God. That ransom was His own life, the shedding of His own blood, a sacrifice. Due to His sacrificial death, each person on earth has the opportunity to accept that gift of atonement and be forgiven by God. For without His death, God’s Law would still need to be satisfied—by our own death.

As for the second part of your response, understanding the relationship between faith and works is very important. Saying we believe in Christ does not save us, nor does praying a prayer of salvation or making a “decision” for Christ. Salvation is a sovereign act of God whereby unregenerate sinners have the “washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit” (Titus 3:5) poured out on them, thereby causing them to be born again (John 3:3). When this happens God gives them new hearts and puts a new spirit within them (Ezekiel 36:26). God removes their sin-hardened hearts of stone and replaces them with hearts of flesh and fills them with the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit which causes them to walk in obedience to His statues and judgments (Ezekiel 36:26-27).

Faith without works is dead because it reveals a heart that has not been transformed by God. When we have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit and experienced the “washing and regeneration of the Holy Spirit,” our lives will demonstrate that by the way we live and our works of obedience to God. It will be evident by the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22) in our lives and a desire to obey God and live a life that glorifies Him. Christians belong to Christ and as His sheep they hear His voice and follow Him (John 10:26-30).

True saving faith is always manifested by good works and a life that desires to live in obedience to God. Ephesians 2:8-10 makes it very clear that works do not save us but that we are saved “for good works which God prepared beforehand that we would walk in them.” When we are truly born again you will have hearts that are transformed by the power of the Holy Spirit where God’s law is written so that we might walk in His statutes and judgments. As Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians 5:17, “Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.”

Faith without works is dead because it comes from a heart that has not been regenerated by God. It is an empty profession of faith from someone to whom Christ will say, “I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.” (Matt 7:23)

 

[CutlerB]

To clarify the first part of your response, a ransom is something that is paid to provide for the release of someone who is held captive. Jesus paid our ransom to free us from sin, death, and hell. Throughout the books of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy are found God’s requirements for sacrifices. In Old Testament times, God commanded the Israelites to make animal sacrifices for substitutionary atonement; that is, an animal’s death took the place of a person’s death, death being the penalty for sin (Romans 6:23). Exodus 29:36a states, “Each day you must sacrifice a young bull as an offering for the atonement of sin.”

God demands holiness (1 Peter 1:15-16). God’s Law demands holiness. We cannot give God full holiness because of the sins we commit (Romans 3:23); therefore, God demands satisfaction of His Law. Sacrifices to Him satisfied the requirements. This is where Jesus comes in. Hebrews 9:12-15 tells us “Once for all time he took blood into that Most Holy Place, but not the blood of goats and calves. He took his own blood, and with it he secured our salvation forever. Under the old system, the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a young cow could cleanse people’s bodies from ritual defilement. Just think how much more the blood of Christ will purify our hearts from deeds that lead to death so that we can worship the living God. For by the power of the eternal Spirit, Christ offered himself to God as a perfect sacrifice for our sins. That is why he is the one who mediates the new covenant between God and people, so that all who are invited can receive the eternal inheritance God has promised them. For Christ died to set them free from the penalty of the sins they had committed under that first covenant.”

Also, read Romans 8:3-4, “The law of Moses could not save us, because of our sinful nature. But God put into effect a different plan to save us. He sent his own Son in a human body like ours, except that ours are sinful. God destroyed sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins. He did this so that the requirement of the law would be fully accomplished for us who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit.”

Clearly, Jesus paid the ransom for our lives to God. That ransom was His own life, the shedding of His own blood, a sacrifice. Due to His sacrificial death, each person on earth has the opportunity to accept that gift of atonement and be forgiven by God. For without His death, God’s Law would still need to be satisfied—by our own death.

As for the second part of your response, understanding the relationship between faith and works is very important. Saying we believe in Christ does not save us, nor does praying a prayer of salvation or making a “decision” for Christ. Salvation is a sovereign act of God whereby unregenerate sinners have the “washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit” (Titus 3:5) poured out on them, thereby causing them to be born again (John 3:3). When this happens God gives them new hearts and puts a new spirit within them (Ezekiel 36:26). God removes their sin-hardened hearts of stone and replaces them with hearts of flesh and fills them with the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit which causes them to walk in obedience to His statues and judgments (Ezekiel 36:26-27).

Faith without works is dead because it reveals a heart that has not been transformed by God. When we have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit and experienced the “washing and regeneration of the Holy Spirit,” our lives will demonstrate that by the way we live and our works of obedience to God. It will be evident by the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22) in our lives and a desire to obey God and live a life that glorifies Him. Christians belong to Christ and as His sheep they hear His voice and follow Him (John 10:26-30).

True saving faith is always manifested by good works and a life that desires to live in obedience to God. Ephesians 2:8-10 makes it very clear that works do not save us but that we are saved “for good works which God prepared beforehand that we would walk in them.” When we are truly born again you will have hearts that are transformed by the power of the Holy Spirit where God’s law is written so that we might walk in His statutes and judgments. As Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians 5:17, “Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.”

Faith without works is dead because it comes from a heart that has not been regenerated by God. It is an empty profession of faith from someone to whom Christ will say, “I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.” (Matt 7:23)

I wasn’t really looking for a discussion of Faith and Works…

 

[fhansen]

To clarify the first part of your response, a ransom is something that is paid to provide for the release of someone who is held captive. Jesus paid our ransom to free us from sin, death, and hell. Throughout the books of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy are found God’s requirements for sacrifices. In Old Testament times, God commanded the Israelites to make animal sacrifices for substitutionary atonement; that is, an animal’s death took the place of a person’s death, death being the penalty for sin (Romans 6:23). Exodus 29:36a states, “Each day you must sacrifice a young bull as an offering for the atonement of sin.”

God demands holiness (1 Peter 1:15-16). God’s Law demands holiness. We cannot give God full holiness because of the sins we commit (Romans 3:23); therefore, God demands satisfaction of His Law. Sacrifices to Him satisfied the requirements. This is where Jesus comes in. Hebrews 9:12-15 tells us “Once for all time he took blood into that Most Holy Place, but not the blood of goats and calves. He took his own blood, and with it he secured our salvation forever. Under the old system, the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a young cow could cleanse people’s bodies from ritual defilement. Just think how much more the blood of Christ will purify our hearts from deeds that lead to death so that we can worship the living God. For by the power of the eternal Spirit, Christ offered himself to God as a perfect sacrifice for our sins. That is why he is the one who mediates the new covenant between God and people, so that all who are invited can receive the eternal inheritance God has promised them. For Christ died to set them free from the penalty of the sins they had committed under that first covenant.”

Also, read Romans 8:3-4, “The law of Moses could not save us, because of our sinful nature. But God put into effect a different plan to save us. He sent his own Son in a human body like ours, except that ours are sinful. God destroyed sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins. He did this so that the requirement of the law would be fully accomplished for us who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit.”

Clearly, Jesus paid the ransom for our lives to God. That ransom was His own life, the shedding of His own blood, a sacrifice. Due to His sacrificial death, each person on earth has the opportunity to accept that gift of atonement and be forgiven by God. For without His death, God’s Law would still need to be satisfied—by our own death.

As for the second part of your response, understanding the relationship between faith and works is very important. Saying we believe in Christ does not save us, nor does praying a prayer of salvation or making a “decision” for Christ. Salvation is a sovereign act of God whereby unregenerate sinners have the “washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit” (Titus 3:5) poured out on them, thereby causing them to be born again (John 3:3). When this happens God gives them new hearts and puts a new spirit within them (Ezekiel 36:26). God removes their sin-hardened hearts of stone and replaces them with hearts of flesh and fills them with the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit which causes them to walk in obedience to His statues and judgments (Ezekiel 36:26-27).

Faith without works is dead because it reveals a heart that has not been transformed by God. When we have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit and experienced the “washing and regeneration of the Holy Spirit,” our lives will demonstrate that by the way we live and our works of obedience to God. It will be evident by the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22) in our lives and a desire to obey God and live a life that glorifies Him. Christians belong to Christ and as His sheep they hear His voice and follow Him (John 10:26-30).

True saving faith is always manifested by good works and a life that desires to live in obedience to God. Ephesians 2:8-10 makes it very clear that works do not save us but that we are saved “for good works which God prepared beforehand that we would walk in them.” When we are truly born again you will have hearts that are transformed by the power of the Holy Spirit where God’s law is written so that we might walk in His statutes and judgments. As Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians 5:17, “Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.”

Faith without works is dead because it comes from a heart that has not been regenerated by God. It is an empty profession of faith from someone to whom Christ will say, “I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.” (Matt 7:23)

But why would a ransom be owed to God? Did He kidnap us?

 

[thenobes]

To clarify the first part of your response, a ransom is something that is paid to provide for the release of someone who is held captive. Jesus paid our ransom to free us from sin, death, and hell. Throughout the books of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy are found God’s requirements for sacrifices. In Old Testament times, God commanded the Israelites to make animal sacrifices for substitutionary atonement; that is, an animal’s death took the place of a person’s death, death being the penalty for sin (Romans 6:23). Exodus 29:36a states, “Each day you must sacrifice a young bull as an offering for the atonement of sin.”

God said I desire obedience, not animal sacrifices. Only perfect obedience can propitiate God.

God demands holiness (1 Peter 1:15-16). God’s Law demands holiness. We cannot give God full holiness because of the sins we commit (Romans 3:23); therefore, God demands satisfaction of His Law. Sacrifices to Him satisfied the requirements…"

God said I desire obedience, not animal sacrifices. Only perfect obedience can propitiate God. If we are obedient, God will live with us. If we have faith in Jesus, we have His Obedience assigned to us. But we still must obey Jesus.

This is where Jesus comes in. Hebrews 9:12-15 tells us “Once for all time he took blood into that Most Holy Place, but not the blood of goats and calves. He took his own blood, and with it he secured our salvation forever. Under the old system, the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a young cow could cleanse people’s bodies from ritual defilement. Just think how much more the blood of Christ will purify our hearts from deeds that lead to death so that we can worship the living God…”

The Life of the Flesh is in the Blood. The Holy Spirit resides in the Blood of Christ, which we are washed in. The Life of God within us removes our sins.

For by the power of the eternal Spirit, Christ offered himself to God as a perfect sacrifice for our sins. That is why he is the one who mediates the new covenant between God and people, so that all who are invited can receive the eternal inheritance God has promised them. For Christ died to set them free from the penalty of the sins they had committed under that first covenant."

God said I desire obedience, not animal sacrifice. Only perfect obedience can propitiate God. His Sacrifice was perfect because His obedience was perfect, even to the Cross.

Also, read Romans 8:3-4, "The law of Moses could not save us, because of our sinful nature. But God put into effect a different plan to save us. He sent his own Son in a human body like ours, except that ours are sinful.

“God destroyed sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins.”
???

My Bible says: “and for the sake of sin, He condemned sin in the flesh.”

It could very well be that His entire Life was one continual condemnation of sin in the flesh, i.e., obedience to the Father.

He did this so that the requirement of the law would be fully accomplished for us who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit."

OK

Clearly, Jesus paid the ransom for our lives to God."

Not so clear as you say.

That ransom was His own life, the shedding of His own blood, a sacrifice. Due to His sacrificial death, each person on earth has the opportunity to accept that gift of atonement and be forgiven by God. For without His death, God’s Law would still need to be satisfied—by our own death…"

I think you might have it backward. The OT sacrifices looked forward to the real sacrifice of Christ, of a life of obedience ending with death on a Cross.

[continued in 2nd post]

peace
steve

 

[thenobes]

[continued from 1st post]

As for the second part of your response, understanding the relationship between faith and works is very important. Saying we believe in Christ does not save us, nor does praying a prayer of salvation or making a “decision” for Christ. Salvation is a sovereign act of God whereby unregenerate sinners have the “washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit” (Titus 3:5) poured out on them, thereby causing them to be born again (John 3:3). When this happens God gives them new hearts and puts a new spirit within them (Ezekiel 36:26). God removes their sin-hardened hearts of stone and replaces them with hearts of flesh and fills them with the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit which causes them to walk in obedience to His statues and judgments (Ezekiel 36:26-27)…"

Failing to follow the promptings of the Spirit to do the works of God (refusing assent of the will) weakens faith and eventually causes it to die. (Faith without works is dead). A new Heart and Spirit must be maintained. Even Paul says that a new convert should not be given the responsibility of a bishop, lest he fall and recieve the same condemnation as the devil. (1 Tim 3:6) Pride can turn a sheep into a goat in no time.

Or are you saying a convert is not necessarily a Christian. If so, where does Paul say this?

Faith without works is dead because it reveals a heart that has not been transformed by God. When we have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit and experienced the “washing and regeneration of the Holy Spirit,” our lives will demonstrate that by the way we live and our works of obedience to God. It will be evident by the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22) in our lives and a desire to obey God and live a life that glorifies Him. Christians belong to Christ and as His sheep they hear His voice and follow Him (John 10:26-30)…"

Sheep can turn to goats from pride. See Paul in 1 Tim 3:6. Or resisting the Holy Spirit

True saving faith is always manifested by good works and a life that desires to live in obedience to God…"

Hopefully

Ephesians 2:8-10 makes it very clear that works do not save us but that we are saved “for good works which God prepared beforehand that we would walk in them.”."

THis is a false dichotomy. We are saved by Grace through Faith. Works proceed from faith and maintain faith. And James makes clear that the Grace of good works can be resisted, resulting in a dead faith.

When we are truly born again you will have hearts that are transformed by the power of the Holy Spirit where God’s law is written so that we might walk in His statutes and judgments. As Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians 5:17, “Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.”."

True

Faith without works is dead because it comes from a heart that has not been regenerated by God…"

Wrong, as I’ve shown in 1 Tim 3:6, it’s from a heart we have allowed to die by not doing good works as the Spiirt prompts us.

It is an empty profession of faith from someone to whom Christ will say, “I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.” (Matt 7:23)

That has to do with persevering in faith to the end. In the end we were not totally known by Christ.

peace
steve

 

[ldeschambault]

Mark 10:45 says “The Son of Man did not come to be served but to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many.” Jesus came to “give his life as a ransom for many.”

Ransom is a good translation. The Greek word here (lutron) meant just that—a payment to release someone from some kind of bondage: prisoners of war, slavery, debt. So the implication is that Jesus sees his death as a ransom to release many from bondage. He is paying what they cannot pay so that they may go free. He is substituting himself for them. And at the cost of his life, they get freedom. So this ransom is describing a substitution. Jesus in the place of the many!

You may ask what are “the many” ransomed from? Jesus describes us in John 8:34 as enslaved to sin: “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.” He did not see us as occasionally sinning, but as under the power of sin. We are slaves of sin and we need to be ransomed from its power.

But that’s not all… Jesus taught that the penalty for sin is eternal punishment. In Matthew 25:46 he says, “These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Sin brings the wrath of God. It brings judgment. If we don’t find rescue from the guilt of our sin, we will be punished, Jesus says, forever, because sin is an infinite offense against an infinitely holy God. So the slavery and the bondage that we need ransoming from is the slavery of sin and eternal punishment. That is what Jesus comes to do: ransom many from the guilt and power of sin and the penalty of eternal punishment. That is our condition! “The wages of sin is death,” said the apostle Paul, “but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 6:23). There are two destinies: eternal life, and eternal death. Eternal death is what we need to be saved from because of our sin.

This is why the Bible says again and again that Christ died to save us. “While we were yet sinners Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8). We were “justified by his blood” (Romans 5:9). “We were reconciled to God by the death of his Son” (Romans 5:10). “He bore our sins in his body on the cross” (1 Peter 2:24). “Christ died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust” (1 Peter 3:18).

The heart of the Christian message is that Christ came to give his life a ransom for many. That is, to die for many. That is: to save many from their sin and from its guilt and power and penalty in eternal punishment.

In John 15:13, Jesus says: “Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends.” He says that he will lay down his life for his friends. He will ransom his friends. What does it mean to be a friend of Jesus?

The next verse explains (John 15:14): “You are My friends, if you do what I command you.” This is not how you become a friend. This is the way you act when you are a friend. This is not the way you become his friend. It is the evidence that you are ransomed. The ransom is what frees you and empowers you to do what Jesus commands you to do. First you know yourself ransomed, then you enjoy the freedom and power and fruit of the ransom.

So we have come back to where we started. Jesus did not come to be served but to serve. You can’t serve your way into the friendship of Jesus. And in John 15:14–16 he makes clear that you can’t be a slave and a friend at the same time.

Jesus did not come in search of slave labor. He does not need it. He came in search of those who would become his friends. That is, he came in search of those who would trust him to serve them. TRUST HIM TO SERVE THEM! For these he laid down his life. For these he gave his life as a ransom. These are the many in Mark 10:45. Everyone who trusts the servant Christ as Satisfier, Supplier, Guide, Forgiver.

What creates the friendship is that Jesus chooses you and opens his heart to you and reveals the glory of the Father. (John 15:15: “All things that I heard from my Father I made known to you.”) In fact, this is the essence of becoming a friend of Jesus: you hear in the words of Jesus and you see in the work of Jesus the revelation of God the Father. That revelation changes you. It causes you to be born again (John 3:3). It wakens in you faith that Jesus is the final revelation of God, and that God loves you in Christ. This is what it means to become the friend of Jesus: seeing in him the all-satisfying glory of God, and trusting him to be your guide and your helper, forever.

It’s not religion that saves but rather a relationship with Christ. How do I know cause I have experienced both. Religion is dead works but relationship is alive and real

 

[wmw]

It’s not religion that saves but rather a relationship with Christ. How do I know cause I have experienced both. Religion is dead works but relationship is alive and real

I want to commend all that I haven’t quoted and let me say you are expressing the faith of the Catholic religion very well. Yet, I quote this last bit because I disagree with your use of the word “religion” and I use it in the first sentence to highlight how it is easily confused and can sound self contradicting.

You may be picking the particular meaning where the word stands for a habitual practice with little meaning and giving a picture of someone “just going through the motions”, but many seem to think this is because many churches or the Catholic Church is or are a prime example of empty works by going through a repetitive ceremony like Mass. This is all very wrong. Our worship in Mass is NOT empty because NOT all religion is empty works. Religious practice should be fostered when the religion is true, good, and nurturing of a relationship with God and the members of His Church and all of good will.

This use of the word “religion” as empty habits just enforces a bad stereotype of a poor part of the definition of the word and I reject this usage entirely.

 

[ldeschambault]

What I meant is that, for many, being a christian is nothing more than a set of rules and rituals that a person has to observe in order to go to heaven after they die. That is NOT “true Christianity”. True Christianity is not a set of rules and rituals that we must follow; rather, it is having a right relationship with God by receiving Jesus Christ as their Savior-Messiah, by grace through faith. Yes, Christianity does have “rituals” to observe and “rules” to follow, however, they are not the essence of Christianity. The rituals & rules of Christianity are the result of salvation. We follow a list of do’s and don’ts out of love for God and gratitude for what He has done. My encounter with Jesus in 2006 happened after praying a simple prayer with my heart, invited Jesus into my life to be my Lord and Savior, transformed my life (2 Cor 5:17). My new birth (John 3:3) experience was very real and no one will be able to take this away from me. I literally become a new person and felt the presence of the Holy Spirit come to live in me (1 Cor 6:19). My hope and prayer is that others come to the same revelation by seeking The Truth for themselves. The bible says; “seek and you will find” (Matt 7:8). I was definitely seeking truth because quite frankly, religion was very confusing to me. God was faithful and by HIS grace I found TRUTH… the Truth that has really set me free (John 8:32).
Being religious is not the problem but focusing on the rules and rituals of religion is if that is a person’s way of having communion with God. Again, TRUE christian faith is a relationship with God because of what He has done for us through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. There is no plan to reach God (He has reached out to us—Romans 5:8). There is no pride (all is received by grace—Ephesians 2:8-9). There should be no conflict over leadership (Christ is the head—Colossians 1:18). There should be no prejudice (we are all one in Christ—Galatians 3:28).
This is not an attack on the catholic faith since I know there are many people in this faith that have a personal relationship with Jesus. I have even found a course that many catholic churches are embracing as a new way to evangelize. Here is a video of one parish priest in Halifax, Nova Scotia, sharing how this Alpha course in a Catholic Context has impacted his ministry: youtu.be/HhYqkCgcu74
God bless!

 

[clmowry]

In order to classify people or things into different groups you need to start with a shared classification system.

You simply do not have a shared definition of what it means to be “Christian” to work with.

I’ve come to the conclusion that the only distinction I can try and make in categorizing various aspects of ones faith as “Catholic” or “Non-Catholic”.

Even then I would limit that assessment to specific elements of an individual’s belief system and not try and extend any assertions to the person themselves.

What constitutes “Catholic” teaching is pretty well defined on any given subject. Even in this limited realm you will encounter much disagreement but at least you have a sure rule and authority to which to appeal.

Trying to make the assessment of whether or not any individual beyond me is “Catholic” is however, beyond my empowerment limits IMHO.

Chuck

 

[thenobes]

Mark 10:45 says “The Son of Man did not come to be served but to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many.” Jesus came to “give his life as a ransom for many.”

Ransom is a good translation. The Greek word here (lutron) meant just that—a payment to release someone from some kind of bondage: prisoners of war, slavery, debt. So the implication is that Jesus sees his death as a ransom to release many from bondage. He is paying what they cannot pay so that they may go free. He is substituting himself for them. And at the cost of his life, they get freedom. So this ransom is describing a substitution. Jesus in the place of the many!

So far I agree.

You may ask what are “the many” ransomed from? Jesus describes us in John 8:34 as enslaved to sin: “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.” He did not see us as occasionally sinning, but as under the power of sin. We are slaves of sin and we need to be ransomed from its power.

So basically the payment is to sin itself. I think from what you add in your following analysis, that one could say the payment is our flesh, but that it is dead flesh we give sin to be released from its power. Thus concupiscense (tendency to sin) is overcome because we are no longer attached to the flesh, but to God. And that is the gift of God, having our spirit turn toward God and live in Him.

But that’s not all… Jesus taught that the penalty for sin is eternal punishment. In Matthew 25:46 he says, “These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Sin brings the wrath of God. It brings judgment. If we don’t find rescue from the guilt of our sin, we will be punished, Jesus says, forever, because sin is an infinite offense against an infinitely holy God. So the slavery and the bondage that we need ransoming from is the slavery of sin and eternal punishment.

Yes the bondage to sin leads to everlasting condemnation.

That is what Jesus comes to do: ransom many from the guilt and power of sin and the penalty of eternal punishment.

The ransom is not from eternal punishment. Eternal punishment is the (super)natural consequence of bondage to sin. The ransom is from sin, with the consequence of the ransoming of being able to have eternal life.

That is our condition! “The wages of sin is death,” said the apostle Paul, “but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 6:23).
There are two destinies: eternal life, and eternal death. Eternal death is what we need to be saved from because of our sin.

Agreed! It’s just that I don’t want to get the confuse the ransom, the gift of faith to us that frees us from sin, with the propitiation of Christ which allowed the Father to grant the gift.

This is why the Bible says again and again that Christ died to save us. “While we were yet sinners Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8). We were “justified by his blood” (Romans 5:9). “We were reconciled to God by the death of his Son” (Romans 5:10). “He bore our sins in his body on the cross” (1 Peter 2:24). “Christ died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust” (1 Peter 3:18).

Yes, he bore our sins by allowing us to identify with his death.

The heart of the Christian message is that Christ came to give his life a ransom for many. That is, to die for many. That is: to save many from their sin and from its guilt and power and penalty in eternal punishment.

Amen!

–continued next post–

peace
steve

 

[thenobes]

–continued from previous post–

In John 15:13, Jesus says: “Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends.” He says that he will lay down his life for his friends. He will ransom his friends. What does it mean to be a friend of Jesus?

The next verse explains (John 15:14): “You are My friends, if you do what I command you.” This is not how you become a friend. This is the way you act when you are a friend. This is not the way you become his friend. It is the evidence that you are ransomed.

Yes, and the Catholic Church believes that Faith is a gift, that the being able to obey Christ as He wants you to obey, with confession and repentance when we fall

.The ransom is what frees you and empowers you to do what Jesus commands you to do. First you know yourself ransomed, then you enjoy the freedom and power and fruit of the ransom.

Agreed

So we have come back to where we started. Jesus did not come to be served but to serve. You can’t serve your way into the friendship of Jesus. And in John 15:14–16 he makes clear that you can’t be a slave and a friend at the same time.

You can however, disserve yourself OUT of friendship with Jesus, that is allow your faith to die.

Jesus did not come in search of slave labor. He does not need it. He came in search of those who would become his friends. That is, he came in search of those who would trust him to serve them. TRUST HIM TO SERVE THEM! For these he laid down his life. For these he gave his life as a ransom. These are the many in Mark 10:45. Everyone who trusts the servant Christ as Satisfier, Supplier, Guide, Forgiver.

And Lord! Realize that if Jesus is our Friend and Lord, then we are to serve, just as He did.

What creates the friendship is that Jesus chooses you and opens his heart to you and reveals the glory of the Father. (John 15:15: “All things that I heard from my Father I made known to you.”) In fact, this is the essence of becoming a friend of Jesus: you hear in the words of Jesus and you see in the work of Jesus the revelation of God the Father. That revelation changes you. It causes you to be born again (John 3:3). It wakens in you faith that Jesus is the final revelation of God, and that God loves you in Christ. This is what it means to become the friend of Jesus: seeing in him the all-satisfying glory of God, and trusting him to be your guide and your helper, forever.

It wakens me to the fact that He established a Church with authorities in charge, to whom I should obey, as the son obeys the Father. He has given them the task and authority to carry down and explain His teachings, as well as set up rules for the well regulation of the Church.

It’s not religion that saves but rather a relationship with Christ. How do I know cause I have experienced both. Religion is dead works but relationship is alive and real

If Christ tells us to do something, how are we His friends and how is He our Lord if we disobey? And He has told us to listen to the Church.

peace
steve

 

[fisherman_carl]

They believe in Christ, don’t they?" At least that’s a possibility. So, is there a way to argue in favour the Catholic position without appealing to Church authority?

It’s possible to believe in Christ but not really believe in the right Christ. That is they don’t know the real Christ. Without a true theological knowledge of Christ then they can not possibly know him. It is a kind of denial of him. For instance, if you believe like the Muslims that Christ is a prophet and Messiah but not the Son of God then you don’t really know the true Christ. You have a false perception of him. Therefore, for Muslims Muhammad could have more weight than Christ if Jesus is just another prophet since Muhammad would be the last prophet and have final say. I don’t think you need to make an appeal to church authority to see that theological knowledge of God matters.

However, in all matters of theology one must appeal to Scripture and Tradition as authoritative in order to resolve disputes. Scripture alone is not enough to resolve all doctrinal disputes as is evidenced by the many Protestant denominations. Tradition is like another anchor of stability that we can turn to. What Christians have always believed is a link back to the Apostles who passed on their teachings to the early Church. Without that link we are like ships tossed to and about in the sea with no anchor, subject to every wind of doctrine that comes along. But, with a sound theological knowledge we are like those who are mature and unmoved in their faith.

 

[ldeschambault]

–continued from previous post–

Yes, and the Catholic Church believes that Faith is a gift, that the being able to obey Christ as He wants you to obey, with confession and repentance when we fall

Agreed

You can however, disserve yourself OUT of friendship with Jesus, that is allow your faith to die.

And Lord! Realize that if Jesus is our Friend and Lord, then we are to serve, just as He did.

It wakens me to the fact that He established a Church with authorities in charge, to whom I should obey, as the son obeys the Father. He has given them the task and authority to carry down and explain His teachings, as well as set up rules for the well regulation of the Church.

If Christ tells us to do something, how are we His friends and how is He our Lord if we disobey? And He has told us to listen to the Church.

peace
steve

 

[ldeschambault]

What I mean by the term friend is that God never sent Jesus so we could have a religion but rather to reconcile our relationship with the Father…as it was intended from the beginning when he created Adam and Eve. I grew up in religion and had no relationship with God and thought I was on my way to heaven because I was baptised as a baby (not biblical)… I bought into what was taught to me by tradition. One day I prayed a simple prayer with my heart inviting Jesus into my life and I truly experienced something supernatural (explained in John 3:3) … Yes I was born again!! Accepting Jesus is a responsibility each Christian must do on their own… no one can make this decision for you but YOU. I believe there are people from all different christian denominations that will be in heaven… it is not religion that saves but our personal relationship with God through Jesus.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

What I mean by the term friend is that God never sent Jesus so we could have a religion but rather to reconcile our relationship with the Father…as it was intended from the beginning when he created Adam and Eve. I grew up in religion and had no relationship with God and thought I was on my way to heaven because I was baptised as a baby (not biblical)… I bought into what was taught to me by tradition. One day I prayed a simple prayer with my heart inviting Jesus into my life and I truly experienced something supernatural (explained in John 3:3) … Yes I was born again!! Accepting Jesus is a responsibility each Christian must do on their own… no one can make this decision for you but YOU. I believe there are people from all different christian denominations that will be in heaven… it is not religion that saves but our personal relationship with God through Jesus.

Hmm…

Only God saves, yes. However,

[bibledrb] 2 John 1:9-10[/bibledrb]

You see doctrine is important and vital to remain in Christ.

[bibledrb]Romans 16:17[/bibledrb]

Which again is reinforced here. You seem to want to destroy the community of the doctrine of Christ: The Church. You see your single and individual approach is meant to be shared in communion with sound doctrine. Not made up things that twist the true Gospel of Christ.

[bibledrb]1 Timothy 1:8-11[/bibledrb]

Again, doctrine is mentioned as something to be kept and followed!

[bibledrb]1 Timothy 4:6[/bibledrb]

In our personal relationship with Christ we **must **be able to be a good minister in His good and sound doctrine.

You see, having a personal relationship with Christ without being in communion with His Church is like the worker that received one talent and then buried that talent, not doing anything with it.

There is so much more than a personal relationship, you know we move from the cookies and milk into the meat and potatoes. That would be the true fruit of having a personal relationship with Christ: being a vessel of His good fruit and part of His Body! In **good **and **sound **doctrine, not in novelties outside the Church that only divide and create dissention.

 

[ldeschambault]

Absolutely…I am all for good sound biblical doctrine. I am very involved in a local church today and have been a part of a **bible **teaching church since giving my life to Christ almost 7 years ago. The bible talks a lot of the importance of being a part of the body of Christ. After my John 3:3 experience however, I began to read the bible for myself and discovered that there are a lot of things in the Word of God that don’t line up with what I learned growing up in my catholic faith… example: infant baptism which saves. Baptism does not save a person. It does not matter if you were baptized by immersion, pouring, or sprinkling - if you have not first trusted in Christ for salvation, baptism (no matter the method) is meaningless and useless. Water baptism by immersion is a step of obedience to be done after salvation as a public profession of faith in Christ and identification with Him.

(Acts 2:38) … and Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

(Mark 16:16) … whoever believes and is baptized will be saved,

so Bible says: Believe + Baptized = Saved

Infant Baptism says: Not Believe + Baptized = Saved (this is simply not biblical)

 

[Isaiah45_9]

(Acts 2:38) … and Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

(Mark 16:16) … whoever believes and is baptized will be saved,

so Bible says: Believe + Baptized = Saved

Infant Baptism says: Not Believe + Baptized = Saved (this is simply not biblical)

Ah, your true colors are starting to show…

How about you keep reading Acts 2, let me help you.

Acts 2:39 For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him.” 40 And he testified with many other words and exhorted them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.” 41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls. 42 And they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers.

They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and fellowship - not a bible, imagine that!!!

And to the breaking of the bread and the prayers. - The Catholic Church has been doing this since Pentecost. We dedicate ourselves to the apostles’ teaching and to their successors, to which the Pope is in direct succession to Peter, you know the guy that talked here on Acts 2, he has 2 more letters that are really awesome. One of them reads:

2 Peter 1:12 Therefore I intend always to remind you of these things, though you know them and are established in the truth that you have. 13 I think it right, as long as I am in this body, to arouse you by way of reminder, 14 since I know that the putting off of my body will be soon, as our Lord Jesus Christ showed me. 15 And I will see to it that after my departure you may be able at any time to recall these things.

With Christ’s help, Peter sure did make available for us to recall these things - It’s called the Catholic Church. It’s visible and invisible.

1 Peter 1:16 For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

There is a continued line of witnesses in the Catholic Church. Without the Catholic Church, you would not be able to trust the Scriptures, there are no originals of the writings available. There is, however, a line of men and women that witnessed Christ, that witnessed the Apostles. And here we stand today.

We Catholics, have had a personal relationship with Christ since Pentecost. We have Christ as our founder, the Apostles as our successors, and the Apostles’ disciples as our continued line of the one true Church, with the correct meaning of Scriptures and with sound and correct doctrine. Any other religion/doctrine is a copy cat.

Peter also said:

2 Peter 2:1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their licentiousness, and because of them the way of truth will be reviled. 3 And in their greed they will exploit you with false words; from of old their condemnation has not been idle, and their destruction has not been asleep.

What you speak about baptism is heresy. Heed the words you quoted and repent yourself for spreading false teachings. There is still time for you. Come to the fountain and drink everlasting life in the life of the Christ’s Church.

Hear Peter:

2 Peter 2:17 These are waterless springs and mists driven by a storm; for them the nether gloom of darkness has been reserved. 18 For, uttering loud boasts of folly, they entice with licentious passions of the flesh men who have barely escaped from those who live in error. 19 They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption; for whatever overcomes a man, to that he is enslaved. 20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21 For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.

And more importantly, hear Christ himself:

Matthew 9:14 but Jesus said, “Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them; for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.”

Who are you to block a child being given to our Lord?

Matthew 18:5 “Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me; 6 but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin,[a] it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

Escape the heresies before it’s too late!