What factor in 2004 makes folks feel most unable to cope with larger families?

[WhiteDove]

What factor in 2004 makes folks feel most unable to cope with larger families? Why do Catholics and non-Catholics alike feel overwhelmed with more than 2 or 3 kids, when our forebears had much larger families with fewer material resources?

 

[Lilyofthevalley]

Dental care,doctor visits, clothes, and the price of gasoline.

 

[justLaura]

Many factors:

I think advances in medical science and life expectancy play a large role in it. Many children would not live past childhood in the “olden days.” So it became a race against disease, God’s will, etc. to try and have enough children so you would have some around you in your golden years. In the booming big family years of the mid 20th century, frequent pregnancies met superior healthcare and bammo – big families.

Also – the fact that women are waiting to marry and have children plays a huge role in it. The younger you are when you have your first child, the more likely you’ll have many children, i.e., a big family. If you wait until you’re 34-35 to have your first child, you only have 8-10 years of fertility left, generally. And after age 35, your fertility begins a steep decline.

Finally, I think some of it is cultural. How often have you heard the phrase “married with 2.1 kids and a dog” or something similar. When was the last time you heard of a grand prize was a trip for 8 to Disneyworld? What sitcoms or other mainstream media present big families without the families being the MAIN concept of the show? (7th Heaven, 8 is enough, Cheaper by the Dozen). It’s become an abberation.

On a side note, I think the fact that there are so few large families is a huge factor in the decline of vocations. Parents don’t encourage their children to answer their call because they want their kids to have grandkids, etc. If you had 4 boys, you could “spare” one for the priesthood.

JMO.
Laura

 

[sparkle]

WhiteDove:

What factor in 2004 makes folks feel most unable to cope with larger families? Why do Catholics and non-Catholics alike feel overwhelmed with more than 2 or 3 kids, when our forebears had much larger families with fewer material resources?

Why do you think? Because we are a culture of me, me, me, me. We are materialistic, self-centered, devoid of any spirituality. We live in one sick culture.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

I have two kids. For me, there are personal reasons.

However, one reason to consider is the cost of education. I just enrolled my girl in a Catholic HS. It costs over $500 dollars a month. I have a son that will be in HS next year. That $1000 a month. Then they go to college. If they go to public college, I may actually see a reduction in my education costs when they go to college. http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon14.gif If they go to a private Catholic college as I did, that will cost over $30,000 for each kid (using today’s tuition, which have been climbing every year).

I don’t believe my parents had to deal with such an expense. I am the first in my family to actually go to college. I my parent’s day, there wasn’t that big a need for advanced education. Dad could make a pretty good living with his HS education, and Mom could stay home with the kids.

Advanced education seems more necessary now than it did then, and much more costly.

Now imagine if I had 10 children. That’s $5,000 a month, $60,000 a year for Catholic HS and an incredible amount for college. The HS would probably give me free tuition at a certian point, but that just increases the burden on the other parents to pay for my inability to pay.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

itsjustdave1988:

Then they go to college. If they go to public college, I may actually see a reduction in my education costs when they go to college.

This is something I have never understood.

There are ways to get money for college, student loans for one thing, working your way though.

Why does society see it as the job of the parent to pay for the schooling of their adult children?

I have found that those who work for it or are responsible for it (student loans) end up taking it more seriously.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

There are ways to get money for college, student loans for one thing, working your way though.

This is how I did it. After over 11 years of paying off the loan, the $10,000 per year tuition, over $40,000 dollar loan becomes even more expensive with the interest over 11 years. Pushing the cost to your children is certainly one option. However, I hope to do what I can so that they are not burdened with a loan committment that may suck their finances dry while they are just starting out in life. Plus, my college grades sucked because I was always too busy to do my homework.

Nevertheless, the $1000 /month tuition for HS is something they don’t have time to work for themselves. My girl barely has time to do the homework she gets assigned, let alone pay her way through HS.

ps. this is not the reason I only have 2 kids, but just something I realized as I’m trying to figure out how to afford just two kids in Catholic HS.

 

[buffalo]

ByzCath:

This is something I have never understood.

There are ways to get money for college, student loans for one thing, working your way though.

Why does society see it as the job of the parent to pay for the schooling of their adult children?

I have found that those who work for it or are responsible for it (student loans) end up taking it more seriously.

Ditto!:bowdown:

 

[LabChick]

ByzCath:

Why does society see it as the job of the parent to pay for the schooling of their adult children?

Ditto. I’ve never understood this. My parents paid room and board for my two brothers to attend college, but they had to pay the tuition themselves (through loans, scholarships, or work-study). My sisters and I were expected to marry soon after high school, so my parents refused to “waste” the money on college for us. Both of my sisters did marry with three years of finishing high school; I didn’t.

Not only did I find ways to finance college and med school myself, I did so in the Ivy League. I went into serious debt and spent a couple of years living off of spaghetti-o’s but, in the long run, it was worth it.

itsjustdave1988:

Nevertheless, the $1000 /month tuition for HS is something they don’t have time to work for themselves. My girl barely has time to do the homework she gets assigned, let alone pay her way through HS.

Now this I understand. A study somewhere (I can did it up) showed that high school students who also worked part time had lower GPA’s. It’s not really reasonable to ask a kid to work and maintain decent grades during the school year (summer is another story), especially at a Catholic HS.

 

[bapcathluth]

I think it is more than one factor. I know for us the fact that we married later in life is why we have only two children. We both would love to have three or four, but I definitely don’t want to go through childbirth at age 43. Also, I feel very blessed that the two I have are healthy, but the older the mother is, the greater the risk for complications and birth defects.

I also grew up in a small family, so I can’t imagine raising a very large family myself. I think I could be very good at it since I am patient and love kids, but I also love the intimacy of a small family.

When my mother was dying, I saw one drawback of a small family. There was only my sister and I to help her and visit her in the hospital and give her hospice care at home. She wanted to die at home, and having more brothers and sisters to share in the effort would have been a big help.

I agree that if we as parents can pay college we should. I will demand that my children work some and help pay their way, but I paid for almost all of my college by working and student loans and I don’t agree that those who do this necessarilydo better in school. I knew plenty of people whose parents paid and they were better students than many who paid their own way.

 

[StratusRose]

ByzCath:

This is something I have never understood.

There are ways to get money for college, student loans for one thing, working your way though.

Why does society see it as the job of the parent to pay for the schooling of their adult children?

I have found that those who work for it or are responsible for it (student loans) end up taking it more seriously.

That’s all good and well, but consider living expenses of college age people. Food, housing, clothes, entertainment, books, and so forth. The parents must also decide if they want their child to work while theyre in college, or not work and concentrate solely on their studied. Student loans only go so far.

 

[Lilyofthevalley]

Why do you think? Because we are a culture of me, me, me, me. We are materialistic, self-centered, devoid of any spirituality. We live in one sick culture.​

No, Sparkle. Most people are struggling to provide basics for their children and household.
Unfortunately, folks, don’t understand The American family is struggling to get the basics, food, clothing, dental care, doctor visits, medication,and it has NOTHING to do with "extras’ such as a vacation or boat.

 

[TreeHugger]

for those of you paying the big bucks to send your kids to Catholic elementary or secondary schools…what about homeschooling?

 

[sparkle]

Lilyofthevalley:

==================
No, Sparkle. Most people are struggling to provide basics for their children and household.
Unfortunately, folks, don’t understand The American family is struggling to get the basics, food, clothing, dental care, doctor visits, medication,and it has NOTHING to do with "extras’ such as a vacation or boat.

I totally disagree (sorry). The American family is the richest in the world. We have more than any other culture materially. But the main reason people have trouble with “lots of kids” is all due to selfishness, nothing more. It “puts them out” too much. We, as parents are all guilty of this. Sure we struggle, but selfishness is the reason people resort to birth control in the first place, in my view.

“Struggling” for most Americans means yes, struggling to get the basics like you say, but struggling admist their homes where each child has their own room, parents have 2 cars (financed - I might add), satellite T.V., they have consumer debt up to yin yang, etc. etc. Ever listen to Christian radio shows? Notice between every program and at every commercial the only ads that come on are for “consolidating debts, refinancing”, "need extra money??? Go to Mexico and observe families with 8-10 children. They struggle far less than we do, and have much less too.

 

[Olympia]

I voted “OTHER.” I think the reasons are a combination of all of the reasons given.

Also, the prevailing conventional attitude is that it is “irresponsible” somehow to have more than 2 or 3 children, and that this is harmful to the environment. Unfortunately, the more educated the couple, the more likely they are to have only one or no children by choice. Therefore, our best and brightest are not reproducing themselves, we are being dumbed down and breeding ourselves out of existence.

By contrast, Muslims think that a family of about 6 is just right.

 

[Jennifer_J]

Many reasons: Lack of family support–ie we don’t live anywhere near extended family. Of course we also have 4 children with one on the way, but still, having some family near would be helpful. We have no one to lean on for any child care relief or any help of that sort.

We just bought a house, but have lived in apartments all 10 years of our marriage. This means all our food must be purchased–no gardens, no room for storage of canning supplies or the canned goods, no bulk buying. It does cost money to feed and clothe children.

Debt from educating ourselves (well, my husband’s ph.d. at least) without any help from family. It’s draining and can pile up, even with work study, grants, etc. Before children (and after 1) I taught at a Catholic school–not the highest paying job in the world.

Probably more reasons that I can’t think of right now. I don’t think it’s all selfishness and me, me, me.
Jennifer

 

[puzzleannie]

the definition of the meaning of responsible parenting has been inflated and warped as parents put impossible burdens on themselves and try to live up to unreasonable expectations. My parents were expected to feed and clothe their six children, send them to Catholic school ($350 a year for all 6 in 1963) and hand on the Catholic faith and American civic values. They were allowed to crack any kid that needed it without worrying about prosecution.

I was expected to do all that, plus pay for their college, work full time, get 2 degrees myself, volunteer at all their school and scout activities, chauffer them all over creation for said activities, and be sexy and available at all times for my husband, who was supposed to achieve corporate greatness, run for local political office, and tithe to support the church. I could yell and slap a kid, but nothing that left marks, discipline was still seen as our primary responsibility.

My daughter says she is overwhelmed trying to fulfill every last physical, intellectual, spiritual and emotional need of her 4 children and husband (1). I can’t imagine why she is still sane. Catholic school tuition is almost $1000 a month (my take home pay). she had a graduate degree when she married in physics, but now says she can barely balance her checkbook. Not to mention the exagerrated definition of romance in marriage which must be kept percolating and on tap at all times. And of course have a savings plan in place to pay for college as well as retirement by age 55. None of this will be accomplished through any sort of physical correction or discipline at all, of course.

What kind of adults are we producing if we cater to every spiritual, physical, intellectual and emotional need of our children? sounds like a recipe for raising sociopaths to me.

 

[Lilyofthevalley]

Struggling" for most Americans means yes, struggling to get the basics like you say, but struggling admist their homes where each child has their own room,​

How is it fair to a child to share a room with 4+ people? I can understand 2 or 3 to a good sized room but after that, it’s not really fair to a child. Should children be stacked in a tiny room with bunk beds?

parents have 2 cars (financed - I might add),​

Even if a mom is a stay at home mom, why should she go all day with out a car?

satellite T.V.,​

That’s about $30.00 a month.

they have consumer debt up to yin yang,​

It used to be one could buy a house or car outright. That is no longer the case. So, yes, naturally people are in debt more. I will not argue SOME folks want things rather than kids, and those people who hold those values should not have a large family.

 

[Lilyofthevalley]

I was expected to do all that, plus pay for their college, work full time, get 2 degrees myself, volunteer at all their school and scout activities, chauffer them all over creation for said activities, and be sexy and available at all times for my husband,​

HA, my behind! Sexy and available after six kids? After the third my husband would draw back a STUMP if he even thought about approaching me for sex!

 

[daniellet]

puzzleannie:

I could yell and slap a kid, but nothing that left marks, discipline was still seen as our primary responsibility.

Yelling and slapping is discipline?

You remind me of my mother! If you would like me to expand that thought, I will.