What gives priest authority to forgive anyone of their sins?

[biffoqueen]

A priest does not make up random penance like 8 hail Mary’s or whatever he gives you penance not just for fun but as a reminder to try and change. Each priest is different and when we were kids we went to a old priest who gave the same penance for everything or so it seemed to us. The priest is not just a man but when saying mass or hearing confession he is Christ on earth. I suggest you be more respectful of the priest and more respectful of your faith. To me it appears you think you are better than anyone and can forgive your own sins foolish thing to think.

 

[CRATUS]

A priest does not make up random penance like 8 hail Mary’s or whatever he gives you penance not just for fun but as a reminder to try and change. Each priest is different and when we were kids we went to a old priest who gave the same penance for everything or so it seemed to us. The priest is not just a man but when saying mass or hearing confession he is Christ on earth. I suggest you be more respectful of the priest and more respectful of your faith. To me it appears you think you are better than anyone and can forgive your own sins foolish thing to think.

I agree with you, but I think sometimes people hold priests too high on a pedestal as if they too do not have human failings.

 

[biffoqueen]

We all know priests make mistakes have failings sin and are only human but while hearing our confession he is not a mere ordinary human he is Jesus Christ on earth. Nobody is perfect but the priest has spent many years studying and has been ordained so show respect you do not need to bow or believe he is better than you as a human but he has a higher power.

 

[InNomineDomini]

They are human too. .

Leviticus 19:

20 “If a man lies carnally with a woman who is a slave, betrothed to another man and not yet ransomed or given her freedom, an inquiry shall be held. They shall not be put to death, because she was not free; 21 but he shall bring a guilt offering for himself to the Lord, to the door of the tent of meeting, a ram for a guilt offering. 22 And the priest shall make atonement for him with the ram of the guilt offering before the Lord for his sin which he has committed; and the sin which he has committed shall be forgiven him.

In the words of Tim Staples, do you think that it’s possible that God could establish a priesthood to communicate His forgiveness to His people, or do you think that God’s not powerful enough to do that?

 

[TimothyH]

My experience is that when someone questions priest’s authority to forgive sins, infallibility of the Pope or Church authority in general, they are usually holding in some past sin or have some habitual sin that they just don’t want to face.

-Tim-

 

[Kurisu35712]

I agree with you, but I think sometimes people hold priests too high on a pedestal as if they too do not have human failings.

Regardless if some people have too high or too low of an opinion of a particular priest, this does not change the fact that they have the ordained authority to hear confession and confer absolution. I’m 99% certain it’s doctrine that even a priest in a state of mortal sin, upon performing the consecration, is holding the Body of Christ. Whether a priest is perfect or imperfect does not change the authority God has granted them through their ordination.

 

[CRATUS]

My experience is that when someone questions priest’s authority to forgive sins, infallibility of the Pope or Church authority in general, they are usually holding in some past sin or have some habitual sin that they just don’t want to face.

-Tim-

While that may indeed be true. My Protestant Friends are honestly weary about the whole confession thing. I am a cradle-Catholic but sometimes I still wonder why I have to confess to a man. I never really saw how confession has changed me into a a better person. Honestly, I would be a little annoyed having to confessing to a priest who is living in mortal sin knowingly. Priests are supposed to be examples. That is like trusting a doctor who smokes. I guess it just goes to show, sometimes to easier to give advice than to live it.

 

[Elizium23]

You need to break free from your warped idea about Confession as some kind of glorified psychotherapy session. The priest acts* in persona Christi *and on behalf of the Church, the divinely-instituted Body of Christ. The sacraments work by the power of Christ operating through them, regardless of the sanctity of the minister.

Going to Confession is not like writing to Dear Abby and the quality of the sanctifying grace has zero to do with what the priest is up to. It simply doesn’t work like that!

 

[CRATUS]

You need to break free from your warped idea about Confession as some kind of glorified psychotherapy session. The priest acts* in persona Christi *and on behalf of the Church, the divinely-instituted Body of Christ. The sacraments work by the power of Christ operating through them, regardless of the sanctity of the minister.

Going to Confession is not like writing to Dear Abby and the quality of the sanctifying grace has zero to do with what the priest is up to. It simply doesn’t work like that!

How would you explain that to a non-Catholic?

 

[Gorgias]

That is like trusting a doctor who smokes.

The doctor who smokes… is he wrong when he tells you that smoking will kill you?

Then why is it counter-intuitive to go to a priest who – like all of us – is likewise a sinner?

 

[CRATUS]

The doctor who smokes… is he wrong when he tells you that smoking will kill you?

Then why is it counter-intuitive to go to a priest who – like all of us – is likewise a sinner?

Say what you want. It is human to not trust people who can’t follow their own advice. I do not expect priests to be sinless of course. They do not have to be perfect. There is such certain things I would not expect from a priest. Does it make his sacraments less holy? To me it does. Believe it or not, there are some awful priests out there. No need to excuse their behavior. Part of me is honestly curious, why do I have to confess my sins to priest in persona of Christ? Why not go to Christ himself? Plenty of Christians of other denominations have asked me this, I do not have an adequate answers.

 

[CRATUS]

I don’t mean to diminish the sacrament in any way, however you know you are more than welcome to tell God directly at any time during the day or night that you are sorry for your sins. But the Catholic option of going to a priest is a wonderful gift! I choose to go to confession so that I know 100% that my sins are forgiven. As Catholics, we are required to go at least once a year and should go more often! Jesus gave his disciples this power that was passed on when He established the church “Whatever sins you forgive are forgiven; whatever sins you retain are retained.”

I would encourage you to read more about the Catholic priesthood. You seem frustrated and part of that frustration could stem from some misunderstanding perhaps? The primary role of our priests are not to be “good examples.” They are supposed to celebrate the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, and make the sacraments available to us.

I love our Catholic faith CRATUS, partly because the Catholic church is not dependent on the personality of any priest. Many of our wonderful other Christian brothers and sisters have beautiful praise and worship services, however these services are very often 100% dependent on the reputation, personality and draw of sometimes only ONE preacher. Our Catholic Mass is Christo-centric meaning that the center of Mass is Jesus in the Eucharist not the priest. Same with confession it is all about Jesus.

I can go to confession to a deeply religious priest, to a priest that is ornery and grumpy, to a priest that is hard of hearing and old, to a priest that doesn’t speak English very well, to a priest that is annoying, even to a priest that is a bad example to others and guess what, in ALL those situations my sins are forgiven!

Now if it is Spiritual Direction that I am looking for, or something more personal then yes, I should seek a priest that I enjoy talking to and could benefit from getting to know them but as far as confession it doesn’t matter. Hope this helps, God bless.

I half agree. I understand with priest celebrating mass. But as a priest, it is their responsibility to be a good example. If they are supposedly in persona Christ, the least they could do is to be a good example. Are they not required to follow the bible and Catholic Church that they are urging their parishioners to? Luckily, I have met mostly kind priests. If confession is all about Jesus, why do we confess to a man representative of Christ? Why not go to the direct source?

 

[CRATUS]

Honestly to me, it makes no sense if a priest who is more culpable than the average person chooses to live in a mortal sin, can still celebrate mass, bless people, anoint the sick, hear confessions and correct parishioners?
If I am not allowed to receive communion while living in a mortal sin, why is a priest even allowed to bless the bread & wine if he is living in a mortal sin?
How is he is still able to hear confessions if he is still choosing to live in mortal sin?
If an average Catholic was living in a state of mortal sin, I think they would be urged fervently to repent.
It is odd a priest can sometimes be better at helping others than himself. If the priest is indeed in persona Christ, I think he should at least try to live an exemplary life.

 

[Elizium23]

Your assertions in this thread match perfectly the heresy of Donatism. Please read about it, and then, please please, disabuse yourself of its errors.

 

[CRATUS]

Your assertions in this thread match perfectly the heresy of Donatism. Please read about it, and then, please please, disabuse yourself of its errors.

I will admit I could have worded my questions with less attitude. There is an element of pride. Some of my questions are sincere, honest curiosity.

 

[Vico]

I half agree. I understand with priest celebrating mass. But as a priest, it is their responsibility to be a good example. If they are supposedly in persona Christ, the least they could do is to be a good example. Are they not required to follow the bible and Catholic Church that they are urging their parishioners to? Luckily, I have met mostly kind priests. If confession is all about Jesus, why do we confess to a man representative of Christ? Why not go to the direct source?

If our contrition for sins is not perfect, then our sins may not be forgiven, so we make sure to receive absolution from a priest who is able to grant this even with imperfect contrition. Also the Church ordinarily requires individual confession of all sins since baptism in number and kind.

All the faithful, which includes the clergy, are to lead a holy life.

Catechism 1441 Only God forgives sins.39 Since he is the Son of God, Jesus says of himself, “The Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins” and exercises this divine power: "Your sins are forgiven."40 Further, by virtue of his divine authority he gives this power to men to exercise in his name.41

1444 In imparting to his apostles his own power to forgive sins the Lord also gives them the authority to reconcile sinners with the Church. This ecclesial dimension of their task is expressed most notably in Christ’s solemn words to Simon Peter: "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."45 "The office of binding and loosing which was given to Peter was also assigned to the college of the apostles united to its head."46

1445 The words bind and loose mean: whomever you exclude from your communion, will be excluded from communion with God; whomever you receive anew into your communion, God will welcome back into his. *Reconciliation with the Church is inseparable from reconciliation with God. *

1484 "Individual, integral confession and absolution remain the only ordinary way for the faithful to reconcile themselves with God and the Church, unless physical or moral impossibility excuses from this kind of confession."95 There are profound reasons for this. Christ is at work in each of the sacraments. He personally addresses every sinner: "My son, your sins are forgiven."96 He is the physician tending each one of the sick who need him to cure them.97 He raises them up and reintegrates them into fraternal communion. Personal confession is thus the form most expressive of reconciliation with God and with the Church. Canon law (CIC)Can. 209 §1. The Christian faithful, even in their own manner of acting, are always obliged to maintain communion with the Church.
§2. With great diligence they are to fulfill the duties which they owe to the universal Church and the particular church to which they belong according to the prescripts of the law.

Can. 210 All the Christian faithful must direct their efforts to lead a holy life and to promote the growth of the Church and its continual sanctification, according to their own condition.

 

[Gorgias]

Say what you want. It is human to not trust people who can’t follow their own advice.

Fair enough. If the advice is good, though… you would refuse to follow it?

Does it make his sacraments less holy? To me it does.

To the Church it doesn’t. The Church teaches that the sacraments work ex opere operato – that is, they work on their own merits, not the merits of the person confecting them or the person receiving them. A person absolved by the priest who’s the greatest sinner in the world is just as absolved as the person absolved by the pope.

Believe it or not, there are some awful priests out there.

I’m not doubting that.

Part of me is honestly curious, why do I have to confess my sins to priest in persona of Christ?

Because that’s the way that Jesus set it up. In fact, atonement for sins, under the Mosaic covenant, likewise happened through the action of a priest, and not from direct prayer to God. And, of course, in the Gospel of John, when Jesus appeared for the first time after His resurrection, the first thing He tells His apostles is that they are to forgive sins! If that’s the first thing he leads with, it would follow that it’s pretty important.

Why not go to Christ himself? Plenty of Christians of other denominations have asked me this, I do not have an adequate answers.

The answer is “because that’s not what Christ established in the context of His Church.” Moreover, that’s not what Scripture tells us – in fact, in 1 John 5:16, we’re told that going directly to Jesus in prayer for mortal sin is what we shouldn’t do.

 

[teeboy]

The priest doesn’t forgive sins. Jesus forgives sins. However, if you want your sins forgiven and you are not perfectly contrite you must go to a priest so that he may act in the person of Christ and so obtain forgiveness from Christ on your behalf.

Take note that an act is required of three persons:

1. The Sinner
2. The Priest
3. Jesus

 

[teeboy]

I’d like to add:

Without the priesthood and it’s succession, Christianity would have been lost a long time ago.

 

[Gorgias]

The priest doesn’t forgive sins. Jesus forgives sins.

No, the priest actually does absolve. Since forgiveness of sins is reserved to God, the priest is only able to do so by virtue of the fact that Jesus gave that faculty to the Church, through the apostles. But, the priest still does something himself.

However, if you want your sins forgiven and you are not perfectly contrite you must go to a priest

And even if a person is ‘perfectly contrite’, he still must go to confession to receive the grace of the sacrament of reconciliation.

so that he may … obtain forgiveness from Christ on your behalf.

Umm… no. No priest prays to Christ as a proxy for the penitent; rather, he absolves the penitent himself, in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.