What happened to a good argument?

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This problem is at least as old as modernity and mass media. Chesterton described Luther and the spirit of modern discourse he began: "He destroyed Reason; and substituted Suggestion.”
 
harshcshah said:
What happened?
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People have become more aware of racism, homophobia and sexism, and have become far more likely to hold someone who expresses such views as personally responsible for these views, rather than letting them dress them up as “sincerely held” religious beliefs.

People are also much more aware of the incredible damage that racist, homophobic and sexist attitudes, speech and behavior have wrought on countless lives, many of them the lives of their close friends and relatives, or even themselves, so these issues have become much more personal, up close and real, rather that distant and abstract.

Also, the old dog whistles don’t work anymore, and the new ones don’t work for very long.

Last of all, very few people long for the “golden age” of the 1950s, which for a lot of people were not a happy time at all because of discrimination. Even Catholics were still being discriminated against at that time.
 
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harshcshah said:
So, I ask, what ever happened to a good argument?
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We’ve forgotten how to have them, says Bishop Barron. In episode 6 of his ten-part Catholicism series he states, “We need to recapture the having of a good argument. Nowadays it seems its either blind tolerance or violence, but there is a middle ground”.
 
So all the people born before 1960 were ignorant racists, homophobes and sexists , perhaps unaware due to their white privilege, male privilege, straight privilege?

All the arguments were all about those things? Nothing else?

And the usual slur about the 1950s and the sneer that people who wish for civility in standards that existed among most people UNTIL the 1950s as part of striving to enter ‘good society’ (itself not homophobic, racist, or sexist as a whole despite your implications) must mean the person wishes for a return to ‘everything’ about that society. Because a person wishes that behavior standards had not collapsed mightily in the past few decades does not mean they wish to jettison their cell phones, computers, jobs etc to pretend to be Ozzie and Harriet. Shame strawman always have to get thrown into discussions. … .
 
For my and future generations, the reason will be a combination of No Child Left Behind, the transition to an education less liberal arts and more STEM, and the lack of a solid grounding in philosophy and writing. That and the public forums of social media promote making single statements (true or otherwise) without needing to offer proof. If someone disagrees, cancel them.
 
Jbrady said:
Last of all, very few people long for the “golden age” of the 1950s, which for a lot of people were not a happy time at all because of discrimination.
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I suggest you read the book Bowling Alone. Also The Quest for Community by Robert Nisbet.

Heck even the leftist site Counterpunch posted an article celebrating the fifties once.
 
My favorite is when people here on CAF lose their argument and announce “I’m out”. That always makes me smile.
 
27lw said:
My favorite is when people here on CAF lose their argument and announce “I’m out”. That always makes me smile.
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To be fair I’ve done that before too. I just didn’t wish to engage in the argument anymore. I still think I was correct but some people can’t be talked out of their views.
 
Yeah, and they seem very selective on removing posts. Guess they think it’s fake news
 
Quite honestly, I think many people today lack basic skills of forming clear thoughts deep enough to have a good discussion. Maybe its a lack of reflection, maybe they were tossed around too much the first years of life with strangers who did not teach them how to engage in good discussion…
 
Sorry. I’ve done that and not felt in any way I lost the argument. I look for discussion not talking points. When it gets to talking points why go further.
 
Ok. I don’t believe an honest open discussion of opinion is in line with the judging scripture you reference. But that’s okay we just may have a different take on it. There is, for instance, scripture that tells us to judge. “You will know them by their fruits” for instance. A open discussion not even disagreeing doesn’t constitute judging. We make judgements all the time.
 
No no, I’m talking about verse 6 of that chapter. Matthew 7:6.
 
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Often people say “I’m out” because they didn’t wish to engage in an argument. But if someone wants to think the person saying “I’m out” lost the argument and feel smug about it, then that’s on them - they can answer to the Lord for their prideful assumptions.
 
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