What happened to my Church? What happened to the music?

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Perhaps this forum section is full of traditional Catholics who all attend more traditional mass. That is what I would like. Due to being in College, Working/ living at different places, etc. I have attended Mass regularly at about four church’s in the past 10 years to return to my childhood church.

When I returned to my childhood church, there was a “band” and I felt like I was at some non-denominational rock concert with “praise” in-between. The guitars, drums and other musical instruments made everything special and unique about my Catholic Church dissappear…I felt like the Church was being blended into something else simply to try and remain “up to date”.

It was this “feeling” which drove me away from the youth group at home years ago…that “hands holding loud Christian rock-like music playing Churchy feeling”. In College I would have loved to join the Newman Club and believing that the “youth Mass” style would be gone, I attended to only find it here as well, only at the College level.

Now, at home, I have learned that the “youth mass” AKA non-denominational Christian style, of music, will be played at three out of four Masses our church provides…only 8:30am on Sundays will play the traditional music.

And when I mention “Traditional Music”…I don’t mean latin hymns (I went to a church briefly and loved it where half the mass was in latin, very Traditional, but had to move).

“traditional” is the ‘Now We Remain’ by David Haas…that is the music I grew up with at Mass and which I miss…but alas…this once considered contemporary Catholic music is being replaced…

Anyone else experience this? I always thought growing up (when we had to attend youth mass at 5pm due to sleeping in, etc)…if this is what they are teaching the ‘youth’ is Catholic Mass today…what is regular mass going to be like in 10 - 20 years from now.

Time has answered my question as now it appears all but one Mass is in the “youth” Christian rock/ evangelical church, style.

End question:

Has anyone else noticed this type of Christian rock music taking over and completely ruining the physical feeling you get from church?

…It’s like when Coke tried to change their recipe back in the 90’s…as one person put it “quit messing with my childhood memories”…and bring it back to how I knew and loved it,
 
I wouldn’t be surprised if the “Catholic rock band” type of liturgical music was becoming more prevalent, but it is far from being all pervasive.

I understand where you are coming from. Growing up, my Church always used the “Gather” books, and so I came to associate that with “traditional Church music.” When I moved somewhere else that used a lot more praise & worship songs, I was lamenting not hearing some of the “traditional” songs until someone pointed out to me that – lyrically – a lot of those Gather songs aren’t that good and that the praise and worship songs (like them or not) are much more likely to be addressed to God rather than simply us singing about God.

That really changed my perspective. I started to pay attention and realized they were right!

Liturgical music is one of those areas of my life where I’ve simply grown accustomed to feeling perpetually unfulfilled. I’ve never really come across a parish that I feel consistently does things the way that I think they should be done (well done music with well-written hymns that are theologically deep, yet also singable by everyone). But considering I do not have the musical background to jump in and do it myself, I simply accept what is present and don’t let it get to me.

It is easy for us to be nostalgic about how things were when we grew up. But our nostalgia cannot dictate all liturgical music going forward. Sometimes we need to set aside those things as we grow up. But we can still strive to retain that which is truly good and beautiful.
 
concerneduser said:
Perhaps this forum section is full of traditional Catholics who all attend more traditional mass. That is what I would like. Due to being in College, Working/ living at different places, etc. I have attended Mass regularly at about four church’s in the past 10 years to return to my childhood church.

When I returned to my childhood church, there was a “band” and I felt like I was at some non-denominational rock concert with “praise” in-between. The guitars, drums and other musical instruments made everything special and unique about my Catholic Church dissappear…I felt like the Church was being blended into something else simply to try and remain “up to date”.

It was this “feeling” which drove me away from the youth group at home years ago…that “hands holding loud Christian rock-like music playing Churchy feeling”. In College I would have loved to join the Newman Club and believing that the “youth Mass” style would be gone, I attended to only find it here as well, only at the College level.

Now, at home, I have learned that the “youth mass” AKA non-denominational Christian style, of music, will be played at three out of four Masses our church provides…only 8:30am on Sundays will play the traditional music.

And when I mention “Traditional Music”…I don’t mean latin hymns (I went to a church briefly and loved it where half the mass was in latin, very Traditional, but had to move).

“traditional” is the ‘Now We Remain’ by David Haas…that is the music I grew up with at Mass and which I miss…but alas…this once considered contemporary Catholic music is being replaced…

Anyone else experience this? I always thought growing up (when we had to attend youth mass at 5pm due to sleeping in, etc)…if this is what they are teaching the ‘youth’ is Catholic Mass today…what is regular mass going to be like in 10 - 20 years from now.

Time has answered my question as now it appears all but one Mass is in the “youth” Christian rock/ evangelical church, style.

End question:

Has anyone else noticed this type of Christian rock music taking over and completely ruining the physical feeling you get from church?

…It’s like when Coke tried to change their recipe back in the 90’s…as one person put it “quit messing with my childhood memories”…and bring it back to how I knew and loved it,
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I am in Southern California, a very high evangelical rock church area, at most our churches have one Sunday evening mass like this.

I do think it’s important for there to be varieties in mass styles. We have masses in different languages, and there are different flares in every culture and I think we should embrace such diversity to grow the church.

Some people are moved by different worship styles than you are.

I’d say, try to go with the mindset of “I will worship God in all things” and put him before your personal feelings. I am confident he smiles regardless of the style of the worship to Him.

He created rock music too.

Our church is transitioning now. That is good, it has done so many times in the past. When the Tridentine mass was created, or the mass switched from Greek to Latin or when Pope Gregory added chant in, I’m sure there were equal discomforts by some people
 
I don’t get as much out of the megachurch style of worship, either, but I don’t see it as harmful necessarily. I’m blessed enough to live where there are a number of parishes with different worship styles - for now at least, pray the diocese doesn’t close more - so if we go to one with a rock band I sing just the same.

I do know what the OP means by the music of our youth (and I’m probably a bit older than the OP). I have to think that my parents and their parents went through the same questions, though, since it seems that much of what I grew up with was written in the 1960s and 70s and comes from artists published by Oregon Catholic Press. This newer generation of music is a reflection of that change.

That said, our music director is quite talented and has set many of those pieces (ie, “Here I am to Worship”, “How Great is Your Love”) to piano, so we get a nice variety, including plainsong chants (set for three voices) and the familiar OCP tunes (“On Eagle’s Wings”, “Canticle of the Turning”) and even some MercyMe tossed in.
 
concerneduser said:
Perhaps this forum section is full of traditional Catholics who all attend more traditional mass. That is what I would like. Due to being in College, Working/ living at different places, etc. I have attended Mass regularly at about four church’s in the past 10 years to return to my childhood church.

When I returned to my childhood church, there was a “band” and I felt like I was at some non-denominational rock concert with “praise” in-between. The guitars, drums and other musical instruments made everything special and unique about my Catholic Church dissappear…I felt like the Church was being blended into something else simply to try and remain “up to date”.

It was this “feeling” which drove me away from the youth group at home years ago…that “hands holding loud Christian rock-like music playing Churchy feeling”. In College I would have loved to join the Newman Club and believing that the “youth Mass” style would be gone, I attended to only find it here as well, only at the College level.

Now, at home, I have learned that the “youth mass” AKA non-denominational Christian style, of music, will be played at three out of four Masses our church provides…only 8:30am on Sundays will play the traditional music.

And when I mention “Traditional Music”…I don’t mean latin hymns (I went to a church briefly and loved it where half the mass was in latin, very Traditional, but had to move).

“traditional” is the ‘Now We Remain’ by David Haas…that is the music I grew up with at Mass and which I miss…but alas…this once considered contemporary Catholic music is being replaced…

Anyone else experience this? I always thought growing up (when we had to attend youth mass at 5pm due to sleeping in, etc)…if this is what they are teaching the ‘youth’ is Catholic Mass today…what is regular mass going to be like in 10 - 20 years from now.

Time has answered my question as now it appears all but one Mass is in the “youth” Christian rock/ evangelical church, style.

End question:

Has anyone else noticed this type of Christian rock music taking over and completely ruining the physical feeling you get from church?

…It’s like when Coke tried to change their recipe back in the 90’s…as one person put it “quit messing with my childhood memories”…and bring it back to how I knew and loved it,
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I have sometimes thought of church music as being the “time capsule” for preservation of 1970s and 1980s faux folk music. One almost expects to see the aisles carpeted with “earth tone” shag carpeting at any moment.

But it does seem that Evangelical/rock kind of music is gradually taking over. I suppose some think it makes Catholicism “more relevant” to the young and not-so-young of today.

However, I’m not so sure the Marty Haugen and Daniel Shutte and St. Louis Jesuits folk song imitations aren’t worse than the Assemblies of God fare that seems to be on the ascendancy. Perhaps the latter will fade more quickly. Emotional rushes are not usually long lasting, even among the membership of the AG.

To me, though, it’s not a matter of worshipping Gregorian Chant. I don’t hate it, but I don’t think of it in an exclusive manner. Even in the “Glory and Praise” books that have been in my parishes so long it’s a wonder they haven’t fossilized, there are some very good songs. By and large, if one was written by Mozart or is an Anglicized European traditional melody, or is some 19th Century “Mainline Protestant classic”, it’s at least possible to sing it, and the melody comes through as logical, reverent and direct.

Liturgical songs are like literature. Some stand the test of time, and some don’t, and usually for very good reason. But always there is a period in which people are obliged by “those in charge” to read the book or sing the song, as boring or vapid as they might be.
 
Music should lead us to prayer, it should in fact be a prayer not a foot taping sing along that leads us go nothing more than a good time for all experience. At 61 I am starting to feel like the mass that I once loved is in fact dead because it is in fact now longer a time of prayer to the Lord of all,who died on that cross for our external life and that is not what I see or hear in church any more.

Bob
 
awolbob said:
Music should lead us to prayer, it should in fact be a prayer not a foot taping sing along that leads us go nothing more than a good time for all experience. At 61 I am starting to feel like the mass that I once loved is in fact dead because it is in fact now longer a time of prayer to the Lord of all,who died on that cross for our external life and that is not what I see or hear in church any more.

Bob
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Coming from mega church evangelicalism to Catholicism this couldn’t be further from the truth. I’d encourage you to visit or watch online a mega church rock concert and sermon of a mega church.

Even the most “rock style” mass I’ve been too in Catholic Churches is “boring” and “traditional” compared to evangelical churches. Even those youth masses are centered on prayer and humility.

Perspective my friend!

Your grandfather probably said the same thing when the music changed to what you love 60 years ago.
 
awolbob said:
Music should lead us to prayer, it should in fact be a prayer not a foot taping sing along that leads us go nothing more than a good time for all experience. At 61 I am starting to feel like the mass that I once loved is in fact dead because it is in fact now longer a time of prayer to the Lord of all,who died on that cross for our external life and that is not what I see or hear in church any more.

Bob
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Yes, this. Personally, that contemporary style of music is not my taste–not for worship or anything else. But I can give room for differences of taste, as long as there is a variety of for different people. But at the end of the day I see that some people have forgotten what mass is for-- it is not to be entertained, nor is to show off musical ability. The fact that people applaud at the end of mass is a sign that they don’t know what that music was designed for (hint: it’s not you!). My only real problem with the contemporary style is that it seems that it goes hand-in-hand with a self-focused form of ‘worship.’ It doesn’t have to be inherent and yet I see it again and again. And I guess my unreasonable problem with it is that I really hate that music 😛 (I’m saying this lightheartedly, but wow some of it is written so badly).

On a separate note it seems foolish and abundantly silly for the RCC to try to be Protestant, either fundamentally or superficially. We’ll never be Protestant enough for most Protestants and if someone wants that they can just go get it from the source. Some half Protestant/half Catholic hybrid serves neither Protestants, not Catholics. I’m half Bob’s age and I have no interest in being Protestant in any way and if I did I wouldn’t stick around the Catholic Church and try to get it to bend to my ways.
 
Highly recommend you read “Why Catholics Can’t Sing - The Culture of Catholicism and the Triumph of Bad Taste” by Thomas Day. Enlightening.
 
Jon_S said:
Coming from mega church evangelicalism to Catholicism this couldn’t be further from the truth. I’d encourage you to visit or watch online a mega church rock concert and sermon of a mega church.

Even the most “rock style” mass I’ve been too in Catholic Churches is “boring” and “traditional” compared to evangelical churches. Even those youth masses are centered on prayer and humility.

Perspective my friend!

Your grandfather probably said the same thing when the music changed to what you love 60 years ago.
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Before 1965 the music was all in Latin and I went to mass with my father and there was not an issue with what kind of mass we would go to only the time. We could go with my grandparents or great grandparents with out issue, we would talk about the sermon.
I am not saying to go back to Latin as vary few of us understood much off it, but I do think there is some thing in between Latin and old English that I allso do not understand.
Bob
 
lola5555 said:
Yes, this. Personally, that contemporary style of music is not my taste–not for worship or anything else. But I can give room for differences of taste, as long as there is a variety of for different people. But at the end of the day I see that some people have forgotten what mass is for-- it is not to be entertained, nor is to show off musical ability. The fact that people applaud at the end of mass is a sign that they don’t know what that music was designed for (hint: it’s not you!). My only real problem with the contemporary style is that it seems that it goes hand-in-hand with a self-focused form of ‘worship.’ It doesn’t have to be inherent and yet I see it again and again. And I guess my unreasonable problem with it is that I really hate that music 😛 (I’m saying this lightheartedly, but wow some of it is written so badly).

On a separate note it seems foolish and abundantly silly for the RCC to try to be Protestant, either fundamentally or superficially. We’ll never be Protestant enough for most Protestants and if someone wants that they can just go get it from the source. Some half Protestant/half Catholic hybrid serves neither Protestants, not Catholics. I’m half Bob’s age and I have no interest in being Protestant in any way and if I did I wouldn’t stick around the Catholic Church and try to get it to bend to my ways.
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I just wanted to say that I enjoy clapping after the final song of mass. The mass has ended at that point, and most people hurriedly left as the priest walked out. Sometimes there are just a couple dozen of us left out of several hundred when the final song ends. For me the clapping is not “Bravo I enjoyed the music do much” like the end if a concert. Instead it is "I appreciate the time and talent you used to support us in song for mass ".

Here is a Protestant Sunday worship service. Light shows, rock and roll, only thing missing is stage dives and crowd surfing (although I have seen that in youth groups). To say even the most contemporary mass in any way resembles this is ludicrous to us converts’!

youtu.be/xWv6Lzh3yl8

youtu.be/CKtiPzHpI4g
 
I agree with Jon S. I’ve never been to a “mega church”, but a few years ago (before I became Catholic), I went to one of the large local Protestant churches with my infant son. The music was so loud and thumping that I was seriously worried it would harm my baby’s hearing. The lights were dimmed, there were spotlights, colored lights, a big screen behind the band that displayed the lyrics, and people swaying and waving with the music.

You haven’t gone mega church quite yet. 😃
 
Jon_S said:
Coming from mega church evangelicalism to Catholicism this couldn’t be further from the truth. I’d encourage you to visit or watch online a mega church rock concert and sermon of a mega church.

Even the most “rock style” mass I’ve been too in Catholic Churches is “boring” and “traditional” **compared to **evangelical churches. Even those youth masses are centered on prayer and humility.

Perspective my friend!

Your grandfather probably said the same thing when the music changed to what you love 60 years ago.
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No offense my friend, but I could care less about comparing the two just to feel “ok” about it. I find it ironic how the CC gets criticized for not “changing with the times” yet it is in fact doing so in some respects.

Seems as though some CC are attempting to draw people in with this style of music & worship like those Mega churches do, although not on the same scale. So it seems we’ve come to the point where its not about Jesus and HIS sacrifice for us, but how WE feel and what WE get from going. Those churches are all about a “feel good” experience. There’s no substance there. Worshipping God is not about what we can get out of it but what we are giving to God for His love and mercy and how His only son died for us.

I’m young and I enjoy listening to rock music. I personally, do not feel it is appropriate for worship at least not in the Mass. I’m all for doing it at a service of some sort outside of Mass.
 
Convert2013 said:
No offense my friend, but I could care less about comparing the two just to feel “ok” about it. I find it ironic how the CC gets criticized for not “changing with the times” yet it is in fact doing so in some respects.

Seems as though some CC are attempting to draw people in with this style of music & worship like those Mega churches do, although not on the same scale. So it seems we’ve come to the point where its not about Jesus and HIS sacrifice for us, but how WE feel and what WE get from going. Those churches are all about a “feel good” experience. There’s no substance there. Worshipping God is not about what we can get out of it but what we are giving to God for His love and mercy and how His only son died for us.

I’m young and I enjoy listening to rock music. I personally, do not feel it is appropriate for worship at least not in the Mass. I’m all for doing it at a service of some sort outside of Mass.
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Well perhaps some Catholic Churches are doing that, but it’s not been my experience and I am in a very progressive contemporary part of the country.

Unless a Catholic Church completely throws out the rubrics then it will never look like the churches in my video link.

Thank God for that. My first impression (and it continues to be true) in a Catholic Church was “wow this is all about God…How refreshing!”
 
yes but it starts with the music, then what? I don’t necessarily buy into the mentality that “relative to ____ it’s still reverent”. Not trying to be argumentative, but I’ve also been to those churches in my past. I know very well what they are like. That is one reason I’ve always been drawn to the CC and the liturgy of the Mass, as with many converts. The beauty and the solemnity. I’ve been going to the CC for about 20 yrs so I’m not new to it.

When I’ve been to those mega church rock concert/ worship services I feel like I need to go home and take a shower. I feel awful like when I know I’ve commited a mortal sin! :eek: I say that in jest …well, maybe!? I don’t know. It’s just weird to me personally.

I’m so thankful my parish doesn’t do this sort of stuff …for now!
 
whipp711 said:
Highly recommend you read “Why Catholics Can’t Sing - The Culture of Catholicism and the Triumph of Bad Taste” by Thomas Day. Enlightening.
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Enlightening? What is enlightening about a rant? I read him. He blames everything on the priest turning around to face the people.
Horrors. :eek:

As with most things, there are MANY reasons why MANY things happened and are happening.

All I know is that Christ is present in the Eucharist. The music or lack there of has nothing to do with anything. I’m not that focused on myself at Mass. And I’m a degreed Catholic musician: Liturgy , Music, and Theology. I have lots to do. But I’m there to met Jesus at the table.

Let’s get focused.
 
This is the same thing that is happening in the Protestant Evangelical Churches, they are conforming to the culture around them instead of transforming it. In an attempt to reach un-churched people they have sacrificed the traditional “God centered” worship/adoration, for a “man centered” doing whatever is right in their own eyes mentality. This has weakened the Protestant Churches, and made them more and more worldly. I hope that Catholicism does not go down this same road. Even if we were to have an outreach to the world, we should never give up the liturgy and traditional worship; otherwise we will end up living in a fools paradise like the Mega-Church attending Evangelicals.

Saint Nicolas
 
pianistclare said:
Enlightening? What is enlightening about a rant? I read him. He blames everything on the priest turning around to face the people.
Horrors. :eek:

As with most things, there are MANY reasons why MANY things happened and are happening.

All I know is that Christ is present in the Eucharist. The music or lack there of has nothing to do with anything. I’m not that focused on myself at Mass. And I’m a degreed Catholic musician: Liturgy , Music, and Theology. I have lots to do. But I’m there to met Jesus at the table.

Let’s get focused.
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In my humble opinion, I feel he is spot on with his assessment. Especially when he pegs the music minister’s repertory that consist mostly of “short, peppy musical intrusions.”
 
I actually don’t mind this stuff. If anything, I wish there was more. It always makes me feel closer to God than “traditional” music. Not trying to change anything one way or another, just my .02 cents, the Church will do what She wants anyway.
 
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