What Happens After Calls for New Gun Restrictions? Sales Go Up

[chero23]

Guns are a liberal platform talking point and it gains support in times of disaster, they ignore the disaster and play politics.

They will never correct it nor have they. Been talking the same trash for decades and nothing ever happens.

Same comparison with abortion as the democrats suggest about republicans.

Democrats are fear mongers in time of chaos and disaster and for political gain only, had they really been so concerned the focus would be the disaster not the politics driven nonsense of guns and republicans.

What have republicans really done to fix the problem?

I believe most of their agenda with guns is run by the NRA.

Republicans and democrats are both bad when it comes to gun control.

 

[ARSpade]

And how many might have died before it did?

Took awhile to locate the younger Tsarnaev. What if, instead of hiding in a boat, he simply jimmied a lock on some resident’s door and held the family hostage or simply murdered them?

I’m sure it was cold comfort to the residents to believe that Tsarnaev would surely be killed by law enforcement if they, themselves, were murdered by him.

The thing to always remember is that despite the “lock down” and police running everywhere it wasn’t the cops who found him hiding in the boat.

 

[ucfengr]

What have republicans really done to fix the problem?

I believe most of their agenda with guns is run by the NRA.

Republicans and democrats are both bad when it comes to gun control.

The reason the NRA has a role in setting the agenda on civil rights is because they have several million dues paying members, and 10s of millions of supporters. In a representative democracy that counts for something. I think this is largely why progressives have come to rely on undemocratic means to advance their agenda.

 

[J_Peterson]

One wonders just a little, however, how many citizens of Boston bought guns after the Tsarnaev rampage through the neighborhoods. Imagine how one would have felt, cowering defenseless in his/her home while the Tsarnaevs were on the loose with automatic weapons. Some terrorists want to die as martyrs, but some of them want to escape the consequences of their deeds. Imagine the panic in south Florida if Mateen had shot up that club then disappeared into residential neighborhoods. It does seem the San Bernardino killers intended to get away.

Nobody was “cowering defenseless” in their homes. Most of us listened to the authorities who told us to stay inside. The police had the situation under control and we felt safe because of it, hence we weren’t defenseless. I’m sure people in Watertown had a more anxious experience than me but my understanding was that most were okay with the lockdown and followed orders. I was pretty far from the action as it turns out but we didn’t leave the house all day. No cowering was done, a lot of TV and cuddling but no cowering.

 

[J_Peterson]

The thing to always remember is that despite the “lock down” and police running everywhere it wasn’t the cops who found him hiding in the boat.

But it was reported to the police who then apprehended him alive. I get the feeling some here imagine themselves running to the boat with guns blazing like an action hero.

 

[oliver927]

Republicans and democrats are both bad when it comes to gun control.

What would you consider good when it comes to gun control?

 

[Ridgerunner]

Nobody was “cowering defenseless” in their homes. Most of us listened to the authorities who told us to stay inside. The police had the situation under control and we felt safe because of it, hence we weren’t defenseless. I’m sure people in Watertown had a more anxious experience than me but my understanding was that most were okay with the lockdown and followed orders. I was pretty far from the action as it turns out but we didn’t leave the house all day. No cowering was done, a lot of TV and cuddling but no cowering.

Watertown, then. Not sure which suburban community the Tsarnaev’s were in. But if nobody in that area was afraid because “the authorities told us to stay inside”, they are unusually brave or unusually foolish, or both.

 

[ARSpade]

But it was reported to the police who then apprehended him alive. I get the feeling some here imagine themselves running to the boat with guns blazing like an action hero.

Why not? It’s what the police did. Badly.

After running around pointing guns at people doing house to house searches like some kind of police state and still not finding the guy.

 

[Erich]

What have republicans really done to fix the problem?

The problem is not guns, it’s people. What’s the common denominator among the following:
a) Orlando
b) San Bernardino
c) Fort Hood
d) Sandy Hook
e) Aurora
f) etc.

The shootings took place in a gun-free zone (well, gun-free except for the shooter – who of course knew this). Statistically, if you have a choice to be in a gun-free zone or a legal-to-carry setting, you are less likely to be the victim of a mass shooting where it is legal to carry guns. All else being equal, if a killer can strike where he is less likely to face lethal law-abiding resistance from ordinary citizens, he will.

 

[chero23]

What would you consider good when it comes to gun control?

I’ll give you my personal belief as long as long as you don’t say, that’s not a consideration, or you didn’t say anything.

 

[chero23]

The problem is not guns, it’s people. What’s the common denominator among the following:
a) Orlando
b) San Bernardino
c) Fort Hood
d) Sandy Hook
e) Aurora
f) etc.

The shootings took place in a gun-free zone (well, gun-free except for the shooter – who of course knew this). Statistically, if you have a choice to be in a gun-free zone or a legal-to-carry setting, you are less likely to be the victim of a mass shooting where it is legal to carry guns. All else being equal, if a killer can strike where he is less likely to face lethal law-abiding resistance from ordinary citizens, he will.

I live in Dallas, Texas and we have open carry laws and our crime rates have gone up, including murders. These open carry laws have not saved anyone, on the contrary.

 

[styrgwillidar]

Watertown, then. Not sure which suburban community the Tsarnaev’s were in. But if nobody in that area was afraid because “the authorities told us to stay inside”, they are unusually brave or unusually foolish, or both.

Very recently, my kids felt much safer having a firearm available when the police locked down the neighborhood in search of two armed felons who’d just been in a gunfight with the police. Was a bit nervous initially until my son remembered the firearm. I felt safer knowing he had it. He had a cell phone to notify the police, but when seconds count…

Of course, the police in the US have no duty to protect an individual. My state takes it further and has put in the government code:

1. Neither a public entity nor a public employee is liable for
   failure to establish a police department or otherwise to provide
   police protection service or, if police protection service is
   provided, for failure to provide sufficient police protection
   service.
   …
2. Neither a public entity nor a public employee is liable for
   injury caused by the failure to make an arrest or by the failure to
   retain an arrested person in custody.

Which reminds me of the dissenting judge’s comment in Riss vs The City of New York, Riss lost her suit against the City for failing to protect her.

"What makes the city’s position particularly difficult to understand is that, in conformity to the dictates of the law, Linda did not carry any weapon for self-defense (former Penal Law, § 1897). Thus, by a rather bitter irony she was required to rely for protection on the City of New York which now denies all responsibility to her. “

… and again, the court ruled for New York City, agreeing they didn’t have any responsibility to her.

 

[ARSpade]

I live in Dallas, Texas and we have open carry laws and our crime rates have gone up, including murders. These open carry laws have not saved anyone, on the contrary.

dallasnews.com/news/crime/headlines/20160107-dallas-murders-jumped-17-percent-in-2015-to-136-but-rate-among-lowest-in-history.ece

These were among the 136 victims slain in Dallas in 2015 as murders here jumped 17 percent from 2014’s historic low of 116.

Despite the spike, though, city officials touted the murder rate — 10.7 slayings per 100,000 residents — as the city’s fourth-lowest since Dallas police started counting in 1930.

For 2015 they ticked up slightly after falling to “historic low” in 2014.

texastribune.org/2016/04/22/crime-rates-fall-texas-cities/

From 2014 to 2015 Dallas’ violent crime rate fell by 4%.

Of course, murders in Dallas (and other cities) are up this year, but a DOJ study isn’t blaming guns: npr.org/2016/06/15/482123552/murder-rate-spike-attributed-to-ferguson-effect-doj-study-says

 

[chero23]

dallasnews.com/news/crime/headlines/20160107-dallas-murders-jumped-17-percent-in-2015-to-136-but-rate-among-lowest-in-history.ece

For 2015 they ticked up slightly after falling to “historic low” in 2014.

texastribune.org/2016/04/22/crime-rates-fall-texas-cities/

From 2014 to 2015 Dallas’ violent crime rate fell by 4%.

Of course, murders in Dallas (and other cities) are up this year, but a DOJ study isn’t blaming guns: npr.org/2016/06/15/482123552/murder-rate-spike-attributed-to-ferguson-effect-doj-study-says

The key term in my post was this year.

nbcdfw.com/news/local/Dallas-Violent-Crime-Rate-Up-to-Start-2016-Police-373610601.html

crimeblog.dallasnews.com/2016/03/rising-violent-crime-forces-massive-dallas-police-changes.html/

This other one is from last month.
crimeblog.dallasnews.com/2016/05/10-people-killed-in-dallas-in-one-week-as-violent-crime-spike-continues.html/

Apparently it’s different Dallas, Texas bc my information is more current.

 

[ARSpade]

The key term in my post was this year.

nbcdfw.com/news/local/Dallas-Violent-Crime-Rate-Up-to-Start-2016-Police-373610601.html

crimeblog.dallasnews.com/2016/03/rising-violent-crime-forces-massive-dallas-police-changes.html/

This other one is from last month.
crimeblog.dallasnews.com/2016/05/10-people-killed-in-dallas-in-one-week-as-violent-crime-spike-continues.html/

Apparently it’s different Dallas, Texas bc my information is more current.

Year ain’t over, plus all those articles are blaming poor policing and the chief’s policies, not firearms. Note the last part of my previous post.

 

[oliver927]

I’ll give you my personal belief as long as long as you don’t say, that’s not a consideration, or you didn’t say anything.

It was a serious question and am genuinely interested in your response. Everyone I know is on one side or the other and since you said they both are bad I am wondering what you consider good gun control.

 

[GaryTaylor]

This is the actual situation…

usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2016/06/15/democratic-senators-stage-filibuster-force-action-gun-bills/85929346/

Republican Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., has said he and his GOP colleagues are open to legislation that would ban such sales but only if it includes due process protections for individuals listed to appeal their gun ban. McConnell spokesman Don Stewart said Murphy’s tying up the Senate floor had delayed legislative action on guns and other issues, although there were no votes scheduled Wednesday afternoon.

“Sen. Murphy’s effort today prevents the Senate from processing any amendments, including amendments he supports, as well as efforts proposed by Republicans to help prevent terrorist attacks here at home,” Stewart said.

The Feinstein legislation could come up for a vote as a proposed amendment to legislation the Senate is expected to take up funding the Department of Justice, including the FBI, for the next fiscal year. Republicans likely would agree to a vote on Feinstein’s amendment but would also demand a vote on legislation they favor sponsored by Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas, that would require the Justice Department to go before a judge and prove probable cause before banning someone from buying a gun.

The chances of passage for either are slim. The Senate already voted both down in December after the mass shooting in San Bernardino, Calif.

The Republican presumptive presidential nominee, Donald Trump, jumped into the fray Wednesday, saying he will be meeting with the National Rifle Association "about not allowing people on the terrorist watch list, or the no fly list,

 

[Erich]

I live in Dallas, Texas and we have open carry laws and our crime rates have gone up, including murders. These open carry laws have not saved anyone, on the contrary.

My gut feel is that open carry isn’t as effective as concealed carry in protecting people. Of course, criminals and terrorists can strike anyone anywhere and at any time – including someone who is openly carrying a gun. Or, they can select another target or wait for a more opportune moment. With concealed carry, an attacker has no idea who might be packing heat.

Businesses that, earlier, didn’t bother with 30.06 signs (figuring that if someone is carrying a weapon, nobody will see it anyway) are now posting both 30.06 and 30.07 signs banning concealed carry and open carry on their premises.

People who carry generally do so for personal protection. Why would they advertise that they’re carrying?

 

[ARSpade]

My gut feel is that open carry isn’t as effective as concealed carry in protecting people. Of course, criminals and terrorists can strike anyone anywhere and at any time – including someone who is openly carrying a gun. Or, they can select another target or wait for a more opportune moment. With concealed carry, an attacker has no idea who might be packing heat.

Businesses that, earlier, didn’t bother with 30.06 signs (figuring that if someone is carrying a weapon, nobody will see it anyway) are now posting both 30.06 and 30.07 signs banning concealed carry and open carry on their premises.

People who carry generally do so for personal protection. Why would they advertise that they’re carrying?

One of the things that drove open carry was some states basically said, “concealed is fine, but if a cop sees even part of your gun it’s jail time”.

Plus, some states banned concealed carry but, for whatever reason, never had laws about open carry. And it became a “we’re here, get used to it” protest thing.

I don’t do it, but don’t begrudge the people that do.

 

[J_Peterson]

One of the things that drove open carry was some states basically said, “concealed is fine, but if a cop sees even part of your gun it’s jail time”.

And as Tamir Rice proved, even in open carry states if a cop thinks you have a gun out in the open they can still kill you with no repercussions and you can expect absolute silence from the NRA.