What Happens After Calls for New Gun Restrictions? Sales Go Up

[chero23]

So let’s say that I did not like someone at work, nothing major, I simply did not like them.
So I make an accusation that they were in the KKK and participated in a cross burning at on a black person’s yard. The police investigated it, and found that the person did not commit those crimes ( and of course he didn’t my accusations were false)

So you are saying that my false accusation should prevent the person from ever
being able to purchase a firearm because I made a false accusation, the police determined the accusations were not true, but it was still an investigation.

2)So having a Brown Bess flintlock is worse than having a 9mm handgun?

But since the flintlock is bigger, that should mean that they should spend more time in prison, that is what you are saying?

1. So a person who lives in the city cannot go Trap or Skeet shooting?

Why not keep them at home. They are his property. Why should a person who lives in the city not have the same rights to participate in a sport as someone in the suburb.

As far as leaving them with friend, that is illegal in a large number of states.

Even What if the friend is not home, but his wife is. The wife does not have a license and the shotgun is in her house. According to you, that means that she is guilty of a felony, and thus should be spending mandatory time in prison ( and more than 5 years, as shotguns are pretty big)

1. if you can prove that you had no affiliation with any hate group then there’s nothing against you.
2. I said it twice, if you have a license for the gun why be scared?
3. 1 hunting gun in the city per person. No more

 

[GaryTaylor]

Oh my bad.

“Unfortunately, despite all our progress against ISIL on the battlefield and in the financial realm, our efforts have not reduced the group’s terrorism capability and global reach,” he said.

The FBI Director Comey:

“Those people exist in every state. I have homegrown violent extremist investigations in every single state. Until a few weeks ago there was 49 states. Alaska had none which I couldn’t quite figure out. But Alaska has now joined the group so we have investigations of people in various stages of radicalizing in all 50 states,” Comey said.

thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/233832-fbi-investigating-isis-suspects-in-all-50-states

 

[mary_bobo]

Has anyone read the article in the Wall Street Journal by former Sen. Tom Coburn? It was published on June 16. I suggest everyone read it while we are talking about guns and “assault” weapons. I found it to be an eye- opener.

 

[GaryTaylor]

aei.org/publication/brennan-admits-isis-was-decimated-under-bush-but-has-grown-under-obama-by-as-much-as-4400-percent/

n a speech at the Center for Strategic and International Studies yesterday, CIA director John Brennan made a startling admission: The Islamic State was “decimated” under George W. Bush and had just “700-or-so adherents left” following the surge in Iraq. Said Brennan:

2014, a CIA analysis found that:

[ISIS] can muster between 20,000 and 31,500 fighters across Iraq and Syria … This new total reflects an increase in members because of stronger recruitment since June following battlefield successes and the declaration of a caliphate, greater battlefield activity, and additional intelligence.

This means that, by the CIA’s own estimate, ISIS has grown on President Obama’s watch from just 700 fighters to between 20,000 and 31,500 fighters.

That is an increase of between 2,700 and 4,400 %.

In August 11 2014, Deputy National Security Adviser Ben Rhodes wrote in a White House blog post:

While both [al-Qaeda and the Islamic State] are terrorist forces, they have different ambitions. Al-Qaeda’s principal ambition is to launch attacks against the west and US homeland…Right now, ISIL’s primary focus is consolidating territory in the Middle East region to establish their own Islamic State. So they’re different organizations with different objectives.

And in an August 8, 2014 interview with CNN, Deputy National Security Adviser Tony Blinken declared that:

Unlike core al Qaeda, right now, their [ISIS’] focus is not on attacking the US homeland or attacking our interests here in the United States or abroad. It’s focused intently on trying to create a caliphate now in Iraq.

That was (obviously) wrong. The Obama administration failed to recognize that ISIS had developed the intent and capability to strike the West.

16 Nov 2015 -There is no “specific and credible threat” in the United States at this time from ISIS, House Homeland Security Committee Chairman Michael McCaul said Monday, three days after a coordinated set of attacks stunned Paris on Friday night, but still there are active investigations ongoing in all 50 states.

“We’ve arrested over 70 ISIS followers in the United States over the last year,” the Texas Republican told Fox News’ “Fox and Friends” program. “We have active investigations in all 50 states and over 900 active cases against potential ISIS followers.”

And while there is not a specific threat, said McCaul, he takes all leads seriously, saying there has been some Iraqi intelligence in which threats against the U.S. and Europe were discussed. .

“We want to stop that storm from hitting the United States and the homeland,” said McCaul

24 MARCH 2016 • 3:45PM It is estimated that over 27,000 foreign fighters have travelled to Iraq

President Obama insists ignorantly still that; “The strategy that we are pursuing is the right one.”. And for some odd reason went on to promote long rifle sales in the USA “again”.

 

[Brendan]

1. if you can prove that you had no affiliation with any hate group then there’s nothing against you.

But he was investigated by the police, which, per your proposed gun laws, still bars him from purchasing a firearm. Why?

1. I said it twice, if you have a license for the gun why be scared?

You still didn’t answer the question. Why does having a flintlock musket mean more jail time than a 9mm handgun?

) 1 hunting gun in the city per person. No more

My question was in regards to Trap and Skeet ( which are different guns… Trap is long barrel, full choke, single shot; Skeet is shorter barrel, wider choke, multishot.)

 

[_Abyssinia]

Since the Orlando shooting, AR-15’s have been a popular selling item in many gun stores across the country.

An AR-15 is a semi-automatic rifle that was made in 1959 by the Armalite Company.

Hunter’s Warehouse Owner Tom Engle told the FOX Business Network’s Stuart Varney, his online operation consisting of 300,000 to 400,000 weapons has sold 30,000 AR-15’s since Sunday.

foxbusiness.com/features/2016/06/17/gun-store-sells-30000-ar-15s-since-orlando-shooting.html

 

[Petaro]

They appear to be a very reliable gun. Used in most mass killings across America. I can understand why a gun lover would make it their gun of choice. Doesn’t jam when fired at 3 to 5 shots a second; holds a good supply of ammo; acceptable recoil. Accuracy seems of little interest to those who use it for its main purpose of mass killings. Understandable that sales have increased.

 

[mikekle]

They appear to be a very reliable gun. Used in most mass killings across America. I can understand why a gun lover would make it their gun of choice. Doesn’t jam when fired at 3 to 5 shots a second; holds a good supply of ammo; acceptable recoil. Accuracy seems of little interest to those who use it for its main purpose of mass killings. Understandable that sales have increased.

They are not anywhere near as reliable as the ‘global go-to gun’, the AK 47.

 

[oliver927]

1. if you can prove that you had no affiliation with any hate group then there’s nothing against you.

Ho do you prove you have no affiliation? Lack of evidence is the only way I can think of. In your scenario, the police did not find anything in multiple investigations but you would still ban guns for that person.

How would YOU prove you are not part of a hate group besides there being no evidence saying you were?

 

[chero23]

But he was investigated by the police, which, per your proposed gun laws, still bars him from purchasing a firearm. Why?

You still didn’t answer the question. Why does having a flintlock musket mean more jail time than a 9mm handgun?

My question was in regards to Trap and Skeet ( which are different guns… Trap is long barrel, full choke, single shot; Skeet is shorter barrel, wider choke, multishot.)

1. I don’t know why a person would file a hate crime against you, that is too strong of a statement. But, like I said, if you can show the authorities that you have no affiliation with hate groups then your cleared. I think I’m being clear to state that each investigation would have to speak to the person being investigated.

If I come up to someone as an investigator and tell you, Ok mr Doe were investigating you for your connection to hate groups. Mr Doe if innocent will be show to the investigators that he is not connected to that.

Investigators will then say… (1) not enough evidence to prove, (2) it’s debatable ( which means something tells them the person might have some connection to the charge but not enough evidence was proven, with this a 2-3 year freeze on buying guns is put on the individual, (3) investigation showed person is connected

(2) I have gone over that an been as clear as water. If you have a gun with a permit then you should not worry. Guns like AK47s are not allowed in the city or suburb, if you have those even with permits for your other guns, prison time.

Which brings me, what would you do. I gave descent laws, you are just trying to find flaws and in a way support the right of those that will have tendencies to commit crimes.

What would you do?

 

[oliver927]

If I come up to someone as an investigator and tell you, Ok mr Doe were investigating you for your connection to hate groups. Mr Doe if innocent will be show to the investigators that he is not connected to that.

And how does Mr Doe show that he is not connected? What evidence is there that Mr Doe can show Mr Investigator to prove he is not connected? Why is it not on Mr Investigator to show that Mr Doe is connected?

What evidence would chero23 show to prove he is not connected to a hate group?

 

[ucfengr]

And how does Mr Doe show that he is not connected? What evidence is there that Mr Doe can show Mr Investigator to prove he is not connected? Why is it not on Mr Investigator to show that Mr Doe is connected?

What evidence would chero23 show to prove he is not connected to a hate group?

Like I’ve said, it’s not just the 2nd amendment progressives want to get rid of, the 5th and 14th are also in their crosshairs, as are, for that matter, the 1st and 4th.

 

[chero23]

And how does Mr Doe show that he is not connected? What evidence is there that Mr Doe can show Mr Investigator to prove he is not connected? Why is it not on Mr Investigator to show that Mr Doe is connected?

What evidence would chero23 show to prove he is not connected to a hate group?

Oh I could show alot of information to prove that I am not involve without hate groups.

(1) Family
(2) Church
(3) Work (i am a firefighter)
(4) friends

I would bring out all the evidence against anything anyone could try to pin on me, and you know what without sounding cocky, I would win.

 

[ucfengr]

Oh I could show alot of information to prove that I am not involve without hate groups.

(1) Family
(2) Church
(3) Work (i am a firefighter)
(4) friends

I would bring out all the evidence against anything anyone could try to pin on me, and you know what without sounding cocky, I would win.

Who determines what constitutes a “hate group”? That seems to give the government a lot of latitude to strip people of their rights based on unpopular political viewpoints. Some people would classify the Catholic Church as a “hate group”?

 

[Brendan]

1. I don’t know why a person would file a hate crime against you, that is too strong of a statement.

Perhaps I do not like them, and I want to get them in trouble.

But, like I said, if you can show the authorities that you have no affiliation with hate groups then your cleared. I think I’m being clear to state that each investigation would have to speak to the person being investigated.

So what you are saying is that if the police find no wrongdoing, then you can purchase firearms, is that correct?

Investigators will then say… (1) not enough evidence to prove, (2) it’s debatable ( which means something tells them the person might have some connection to the charge but not enough evidence was proven, with this a 2-3 year freeze on buying guns is put on the individual, (3) investigation showed person is connected

So if the person I made the accusation was unable to prove what they were doing the night of the cross burning, then they are to be banned from buying firearms for 2-3 years, is that correct? Even if my accusation was false.

(2) I have gone over that an been as clear as water. If you have a gun with a permit then you should not worry. Guns like AK47s are not allowed in the city or suburb, if you have those even with permits for your other guns, prison time.

No, clear as mud, you stated

the bigger the gun, the longer the punishment

You have given no reasons why a flintlock should have greater punishments than a 9mm, your only claim is not to worry.

That is not a reason for the statement.

Ergo, your position is, by definition, unreasonable.

So do you have a reason for making an illegal position of a flintlock a more grievous offense than a handgun.

(and, as an additional FYI, AK-47s are already illegal in the US, just as they were illegal at the Charlie Hebdo office in Paris. They only thing that you can purchase in the US are semi-automatics that have a physical resemblance to the Kalashnikov, but are mechanically different. Kind of like buying a tank that is really a Ford pickup with different body panels.

Which brings me, what would you do.** I gave descent laws**, you are just trying to find flaws and in a way support the right of those that will have tendencies to commit crimes.

What would you do?

If you gave decent laws, I have yet to see them, all I have seen is irrational nonsense.

 

[oliver927]

Oh I could show alot of information to prove that I am not involve without hate groups.

(1) Family
(2) Church
(3) Work (i am a firefighter)
(4) friends

I would bring out all the evidence against anything anyone could try to pin on me, and you know what without sounding cocky, I would win.

Sounds like the same stuff the authorities would find on anyone that for whatever reason you would not accept if the investigation came up clean, even multiple investigations.

What if it wasn’t guns but voting rights? Would you be comfortable knowing your ability to vote could be stripped from you because you were falsely accused of being in a hate group even when there is no evidence against you?

 

[Brendan]

Oh I could show alot of information to prove that I am not involve without hate groups.

(1) Family
(2) Church
(3) Work (i am a firefighter)
(4) friends
.

I’m sure Omar Mateen could have come up with similar references

His Family
His Mosque
His Work ( Homeland Security Licensed Security Guard at a US Court House)
His Friends.

His investigation came about it in same way as my hypothetical example, of a co-worker who made a complaint of inflammatory remarks.

The FBI investigated, and found nothing.

 

[chero23]

Who determines what constitutes a “hate group”? That seems to give the government a lot of latitude to strip people of their rights based on unpopular political viewpoints. Some people would classify the Catholic Church as a “hate group”?

That is true, but a hate group has been established as groups as the KKK as the neo-nazis, just to name a few.

 

[chero23]

I’m sure Omar Mateen could have come up with similar references

His Family
His Mosque
His Work ( Homeland Security Licensed Security Guard at a US Court House)
His Friends.

His investigation came about it in same way as my hypothetical example, of a co-worker who made a complaint of inflammatory remarks.

The FBI investigated, and found nothing.

But the FBI has never investigated me for being involved with gangs or drug dealers.
Omar was investigated twice for having ties with terrorism, plush he had been married once and divorced and his 1st wife didn’t speak highly of him. Her family basically kidnapped her back home bc of his violence.

None of the girls whom I have dated has had their family rush in to save them bc I was being aggressive towards them.

He basically had 2 warning signs, I have 0. Let me repeat 0.

 

[chero23]

Sounds like the same stuff the authorities would find on anyone that for whatever reason you would not accept if the investigation came up clean, even multiple investigations.

What if it wasn’t guns but voting rights? Would you be comfortable knowing your ability to vote could be stripped from you because you were falsely accused of being in a hate group even when there is no evidence against you?

So what do you propose? You haven’t brought up anything but just complain.

This is about guns, voting that’s a whole different topic.

But, If someone were accused of being in a hate group, and it turned out that the accusation was trying to get at someone, then the person who made the accusation would have repercussions.