What happens if a Catholic is neutral on Homosexual Marriages?

[Rence]

Just you wait. They have been pushing the envelope since the Stonewall Riots of 1969. A more recent example is a lesbian couple who attended our parish. Nobody said anything until they wanted to be Eucharistic Ministers. So, what makes you think their demands will end with civil SS"M"?Since when do you have to get both? Would you care to elaborate on this?

Sure. Getting married civilly is not recognized by the Church for Catholics. If a Catholic marries civilly, they have to also get married in Church Sacramentally. When a couple gets married in the Church, the priest acts as a JOP and signs the marriage license, but the two are completely separate. If the priest didn’t sign the marriage license (which he does as a courtesy anyway, it’s not part of the Sacrament at all), then the State wouldn’t recognize the couple’s marriage because Sacramental marriage is not recognized by the State. Those people who get married at City Hall have to have their marriage ‘convalidated’ , in other words, they have to complete the Sacramental part.

Some people think that the State will try to force priests to marry same sex couples in their capacity as justice of the piece. That’s not going to happen. But just for the sake of aregument: No big deal: they just don’t have to sign any of them. They only do it as a courtesy anyway since the civil marriage has absolutely nothing to do with the Sacrament. They can just continue to do the Sacramental marriage with the couple just bringing in the signed license with that piece already done.

 

[Rence]

But that’s not what he said. He said,I was married in the Church, but did not get a civil ceremony. Sounds like I filed a lot of illegal “Married filing joint” tax returns.

That’s because the priest signs the marriage license as a courtesy. You can either bring it in for him to sign, or you can bring it in already signed by a JOP, it doesn’t matter — because it’s NOT part of the Sacrament. Sacramental marriage is completey different than civil marriage, and in this country, the State does not recognize the Sacramental part. And of course, the Church doesn’t recognize the civil part.

 

[Rence]

Incorrect.

davidmacd.com/catholic/how_to_stop_being_catholic.htm

So where does your citation say that they’re no longer Catholic? Not being in communion with the Church only means you are not allowed to have Commmunion. When one is 'excommunicated" they are required to fulfill your other Catholic obligations such as attending Mass.

 

[Rence]

Ok, I don’t know about USA.

Maybe in your country (or state) your state/federal government recognises the Church marriage but it’s never the other way around. Church marriage must be performed by a priest according to the Holy Sacrament of Marriage, unless the USA has some special concession from the Vatican.

The US government does not recognize Sacramental marriage either. The civil marriage license must be signed by a justice of the peace. The priest signs it after the Sacramental part is done, separately, which the State authorizes him to do. It’s not part of the Sacrament.

 

[Castello]

It is true. The Church does not recognize civil marriage for Catholics and Catholics are required to get married Sacramentally.

This is not quite accurate.

A Sacramental marriage is a valid marriage between two baptized Christians.

A Catholic may enter a perfectly valid marriage with a non-Christian, they must request permission from the Bishop to do so. To to a step further, along with that permission that same Charlie Catholic and Suzi Oneness Pentecostal (or insert other non-Christian up to and including atheist title) couple may request to be dispensed from form and if that is granted, they can enter into that perfectly valid marriage at the JP office.

It is the best for Catholics to enter Sacramental marriages, but, the Bishop can grant permission for them to do otherwise.

 

[bmullins]

This is not quite accurate.

A Sacramental marriage is a valid marriage between two baptized Christians.

A Catholic may enter a perfectly valid marriage with a non-Christian, they must request permission from the Bishop to do so. To to a step further, along with that permission that same Charlie Catholic and Suzi Oneness Pentecostal (or insert other non-Christian up to and including atheist title) couple may request to be dispensed from form and if that is granted, they can enter into that perfectly valid marriage at the JP office.

It is the best for Catholics to enter Sacramental marriages, but, the Bishop can grant permission for them to do otherwise.

Does not the marriage still have to be ‘blessed’ in the church? It is my understanding that yes you can be married on the beach or at the Justice of the Peace, but you still have to have the marriage blessed in the church as a Catholic?

 

[Catholicpotato]

Not being in communion with the Church only means you are not allowed to have Commmunion.

Not to nitpick but it means more than not being able to receive communion. It means exactly what it says. You are putting yourself outside of the Church. As an example look at any group “not in communion” with Rome. There is more to it than just the Eucharist.

 

[Tenofovir]

Not to nitpick but it means more than not being able to receive communion. It means exactly what it says. You are putting yourself outside of the Church. As an example look at any group “not in communion” with Rome. There is more to it than just the Eucharist.

But it doesn’t mean that he no longer is a Catholic. That’s the issue. The Church itself includes statistics for non-practicing Catholics. Is the Church itself LYING? Should the Church excommunicate itself? When I had a very important Catholic Church official in my house several months ago, and I said I was Catholic, he (despite being a priest) did not ask me to confirm whether I’d been to Communion several days before.

Besides there are two issues here. Religious marriage and state marriage. Recognise that the first is a sacrament, the latter is not and is not recognised by the Church.

 

[sedonaman]

It is true. The Church does not recognize civil marriage for Catholics and Catholics are required to get married Sacramentally. In the US, one is required to get a marriage license first, and the priest signs the marriage license for the civil part, but the Sacramental part is what is required of the Church and has nothing to do with the priest signing the marriage license. The two are separate. When one gets married in Church, they are getting married Sacramentally by the priest, AND civilly when the priest signs the marriage license. The State does not recognize the Sacrament of marriage, and the Church doesn’t recognize the civil marriage, otherwise you’d be able to just go to ciy hall to get married and that would be the end. You can’t just get married in city hall, and stop there because the Church doesn’t recognize the civil part for Catholics. For those Catholics who get the marriage license signed by a justice of the peace, they have to go through Sacramental marriage as well.

This is all very confusing. it doesn’t agree with your prior posts.

 

[tskrobacz]

Single people are allowed to adopt children, even by the Church.

The state does not recognize religious marriages, such as the Sacramental marriage of Catholics. They only recognize civil marriage.

1. Yes and the ordinary family structure includes a mom and a dad.
2. Yes and we will significantly increase state involvement if they get to define marriage as something other than One Man, One Woman, For Life.

 

[sedonaman]

…Some people think that the State will try to force priests to marry same sex couples in their capacity as justice of the piece. That’s not going to happen. …

As I said, just you wait. In fact, the state will eventually try to force priests to marry same sex couples in their capacity as Cathodic priests.

 

[Castello]

Does not the marriage still have to be ‘blessed’ in the church? It is my understanding that yes you can be married on the beach or at the Justice of the Peace, but you still have to have the marriage blessed in the church as a Catholic?

No.

The term “blessed” is something that people made up when it comes to weddings.

According to the Church, a wedding is valid or invalid.

If Joe Catholic wants to marry Peggy Protestant on the beach, he must ask the Bishop for permission to marry a Protestant AND to be dispensed from the proper form (marriage in a Catholic Church). If the Bishop does NOT give both permissions and Joe and Peggy decide to go marry on the beach anyway, they are NOT validly married.

If Joe wants to receive the Eucharist again, he and Peggy will have to go through the proper procedure and get married in the Church this service is called a “convalidation”, not - as many people mistakenly call it - “a blessing”.

If Joe and Peggy get the proper dispensations, their marriage is just as valid as if they had been married in front of the Pope at St Peter’s.

 

[fred_conty]

As I said, just you wait. In fact, the state will eventually try to force priests to marry same sex couples in their capacity as Cathodic priests.

I’ve known of a couple approching the priest to be married, and he refused to marry them.
Both were Catholic. He refused because tho legal age, they were not ready for marriage in his opinion. The state does not coerce the priest to marry them just because
everything is in order and looks legal. He is given the ability by the state to make the final judgment of readiness or not. So in the case of SSM, the priest could simply refuse.

Excommunication means that the person is cut off from the prayers and all functions the church has to offer except the sacrament of Mercy, Confession. By this he may be restored to communion with the church and thereby is included again in the prayers of the universal and local church. However individuals may pray for that person. Only specific and special serious sins will separate them from the communion of saints.

Mortal sin does not exclude the person from the universal and local prayers of the church, nor the church itself. But they are excluded from the Eucharist until they receive the sacrament of Mercy, Confession.

In the case of the person being “neutral” on SSM, IMO not enough is known about the
reason why he said this to make a determination one way or another.

Just a few thoughts.
Just a few thoughts.

 

[sedonaman]

I’ve known of a couple approching the priest to be married, and he refused to marry them.
Both were Catholic. He refused because tho legal age, they were not ready for marriage in his opinion. The state does not coerce the priest to marry them just because
everything is in order and looks legal. He is given the ability by the state to make the final judgment of readiness or not. So in the case of SSM, the priest could simply refuse.
…

I think you missed my point completely here. What I see happening is once SS"M" is the law of the land, the IRS will demand the Church perform SS"Ms" or lose its tax-exempt status. A 25-year war was waged by the ACLU against the Boy Scouts, a private organization bsalegal.org/litigation-222.asp. The Boy Scouts refused to let a homosexual be a leader, and he sued. The case spent a number of years wending its way through the courts until the Supreme Court decided for the Scouts. The ACLU didn’t take this loss lightly; it opened another front in the war by suing to have the Scouts banned from using public facilities, like meeting rooms on military installations. I think these suits are still going on. I also think a similar fate awaits the churches.

 

[Inquiringperson]

So does a person sin if they are neutral on Homosexual “marriages”?

 

[thistle]

But it doesn’t mean that he no longer is a Catholic. That’s the issue. The Church itself includes statistics for non-practicing Catholics. Is the Church itself LYING? Should the Church excommunicate itself? When I had a very important Catholic Church official in my house several months ago, and I said I was Catholic, he (despite being a priest) did not ask me to confirm whether I’d been to Communion several days before.

Besides there are two issues here. Religious marriage and state marriage. Recognise that the first is a sacrament, the latter is not and is not recognised by the Church.

NO! Once a Catholic always a Catholic. No matter if you turn your back on the Church and walk away and “become” Baptist, Lutheran or whatever you remain a Catholic. Excommunicated simply means you don’t have access to the Sacraments. In short, someone who is excommunicated can sincerely repent, get the excommunication lifted, go to Confession and is then fully back in the fold.

 

[Tim_Kirchoff]

So does a person sin if they are neutral on Homosexual “marriages”?

That depends on whether it qualifies as invincible ignorance.

If they have heard and understand the Church’s teaching on marriage and reject it, they are committing what would have once been called heresy.

If they have had the reasonable chance to learn Church teaching on marriage, but refused to listen, their ignorance is culpable.

If they haven’t had a reasonable chance to learn Church teaching, they aren’t sinning.

 

[mickey_doolan]

First of all. A homosexual union is not Catholic.
Secondly, a homosexual union is not a marriage, definitely not the Catholic version of marriage.

And because it is not Catholic, it is not the neutral position your friend is in, rather it is outside of God’s law.
Your friend is not guilty of anything. It is the homosexual who has place the condition outside of God’s law. The homosexual union presumes that is neutral.
But neutral from what? Certainly not from being from the Church and Non Catholic.