What Happens to Non-Christians When They Die?

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amfierst

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I teach a 7th grade CCD class and was asked by one of my students what will happen to her Jewish friend when she dies since her friend does not believe that Jesus is the messiah and our Savior. I told her simply that I like to believe that God gives everyone a second chance to believe after they die. I know we can never truly know the answer until we meet our Creator, but what does our faith teach? And I apologize if this question has already been posted and I missed it.
 
First of all, no one knows the hearts of men, but God. Our God is merciful! But sin is very serious and if someone does not believe that Christ is the savior and dies in a state of mortal sin then they go to Hell. God will judge men according to the law written on their hearts.
 
I told her simply that I like to believe that…
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Probably best to pass on what the Catechism teaches. Try CCC paragraphs 1020 thru 1065 about Judgement and paragraphs 839-840 about Jews and Salvation.
God gives everyone a second chance to believe after they die
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Not what the Church teaches. There are probably many (better contextually) places to read, but I just read this last night:

“There is no repentance for men after death.” CCC paragraph 393
 
Thank you for that reference. As a catechism, I absolutely want to teach what the church teaches. I guess in my heart I just wish everyone got a second chance :-(. But next time before responding to a student, I’ll check the Catechism first.
 
You might want to talk about invincible ignorance, which pertains to those who have not had adequate evangelization to accept the Gospel, yet their hearts are ordered toward accepting the truth if adequately presented to them. In fact, just this morning, the priest read from St. Basil’s Eucharistic prayer #4, which reads in part:*Remember those who take part in this offering, those here present and all your people, and all who seek you with a sincere heart. Remember those who have died in the peace of Christ and all the dead whose faith is known to you alone. *Though the Church does not know the faith of all the dead, the Church teaches that by way of invincible ignorance, it is possible, in ways known only to God, that someone who is not formally united to the Church, to be united to the Church in some extenuating way due to the proper order of their heart.
 
That helps a lot! But those Jews that I know, who are aware of what the Church teaches, and despite the fact that they are exemplary people and good and holy in most ways, will still burn in the fires of hell. That is so depressing 😦
 
I’m not educated enough to preach on the issue but God takes people according to their hearts before anything else and as God is a good and merciful God it stands to reason that the very young (including abortion victims) would also go to Heaven.

The CCC is a wonderful and helpful source of information and is free to download.
Just Google it.
 
amfierst said:
That helps a lot! But those Jews that I know, who are aware of what the Church teaches, and despite the fact that they are exemplary people and good and holy in most ways, will still burn in the fires of hell. That is so depressing 😦
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We can’t know they are in hell. God knows the heart. He knows if there any impediments compromising their understanding. Even if they have formally heard the gospel. There could be some circumstance we can’t see for which they are not responsible for overcoming. We must continue to evangelize and pray. 🙂
 
I am so happy I joined this forum tonight! Now I know what to tell my students in regard to this question 🙂
 
The best answer is we don’t know and we should be concerned about our own fate and work on our salvation rather than wondering about the fate of other people.
 
ALL people on planet Earth are treated the same–if one dies in a state of mortal sin they go to Hell–if they die in God’s grace but with temporal debt they go to Purgatory–if they die in a state of grace without any temporal debt they go to Heaven.

It is true that we don’t know the condition of other people’s hearts or souls and FIRSTLY we must be concerned with our own salvation.

But if we truly love our neighbors as ourselves then we must also be concerned with their salvation!

Jesus said “Be ye perfect”.

That’s what we must all strive for and yes it is impossible with men but it is possible with God.

All men are capable of committing mortal sin because even if some men are invincibly ignorant of Christ–they still have the natural law written on their hearts.

For example: murder someone and don’t be repentant for it and die in that state knowing only the natural law and do you know where you go? Hell!

It is POSSIBLE for someone to be invincibly ignorant of Christ or not be in formal communion with the Catholic Church like our separated Christian Protestant brethren and make it to Heaven.

Just because it is possible doesn’t make it probable.

It is HARD for any of us to make it to Heaven because God is a God of justice.

On the other hand it is also easy to make it to Heaven because God is a God of mercy.

And just because SOME may be invincibly ignorant and make it to Heaven doesn’t change the fact that the bar is HIGH for invincible ignorance.

If anyone while being invincibly ignorant is prompted by the Holy Spirit to investigate anything regarding God and REFUSES then that person has blasphemed the Holy Spirit which is unforgivable.

Only God can judge whether they were responsible or not to follow the promptings of the Holy Spirit. The important thing is NO ONE should count on INVINCIBLE ignorance to be saved–as the scriptures say you shouldn’t put the Lord your God to the test!

Jesus commanded the disciples to go out and evangelize the whole world!

We can’t get out of that command by INDIFFERENTISM–thinking that all religions are the same–or by ASSUMING that since it is POSSIBLE for a person to be saved by invincible ignorance then we should let them stay in their invincible ignorance.

One last thing–we can’t be too rigorist about the possibility of salvation to the point of Feeneyism which was condemned by the Catholic Church.

St. Paul commanded us in holy Scripture to “work out our salvation with fear and trembling”.

God is the author of that Holy Scripture. We must obey.
 
ConstantineTG said:
The best answer is we don’t know and we should be concerned about our own fate and work on our salvation rather than wondering about the fate of other people.
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Oh my goodness! I couldn’t possibly live my life and not worry about the salvation of others. I worry about the fate of my family members who do not appear to be believers (of course I don’t know their heart), and the very reason I teach CCD is because I want these children to know their faith and be saved. How can anyone who is a true Catholic Christian go through life and not pray for others’ souls?
 
Jerry-Jet said:
If anyone while being invincibly ignorant is prompted by the Holy Spirit to investigate anything regarding God and REFUSES then that person has blasphemed the Holy Spirit which is unforgivable.

St. Paul commanded us in holy Scripture to “work out our salvation with fear and trembling”.

God is the author of that Holy Scripture. We must obey.
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how is a single offense of refusing to investigate God result in damnation? Is that blasphemy? Or is that a person thinking that he has voices in his head?

I think one would have to KNOW that the HS commanded/prompted something and then knowingly ignored the HS to commit blasphemy.
 
amfierst said:
Oh my goodness! I couldn’t possibly live my life and not worry about the salvation of others. I worry about the fate of my family members who do not appear to be believers (of course I don’t know their heart), and the very reason I teach CCD is because I want these children to know their faith and be saved. How can anyone who is a true Catholic Christian go through life and not pray for others’ souls?
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I do not think he means “forget about everyone else” in terms of salvation. I will not speak for who posted, but surely that’s not what is being said.
 
If a SINGLE offense of refusing to investigate when the Holy Spirit prompts investigation is a MORTAL SIN–then if that SINGLE sin is unrepented of until death then yes–a SINGLE OFFENSE will result in damnation.

Notice I did say IF it was a mortal sin.

Only God knows our hearts and can perfectly judge whether we committ a mortal sin or not.

EVERY single decision we make in life has consequences.

You can’t claim to be invincibly ignorant and then pick and choose when you decide to question or not question matters of faith.

A person can be CULPABLE for not trying to loving the Lord with his whole mind.

I’m not saying that no one is invincibly ignorant or that a person doesn’t have to KNOW that the Holy Spirit is prompting him to investigate further matters of faith and refuse that prompting to committ a mortal sin.

What I’m saying is that that does indeed happen!

There are many people who have never been part of the Catholic faith or any faith that feel promptings in their heart and REFUSE to heed them because they are comfortable–they don’t want their hardened hearts to be troubled with the truth.

How often does that happen? I don’t know but that doesn’t mean that God doesn’t know.

There is such a thing as invincible ignorance–all I’m saying is that it happens much less than many people think it does.

People don’t want to face a hard truth like that–many would rather feel warm and fuzzy thinking to themselves that there are many who are invincibly ignorant and isn’t it a great thing that they are and that they get to heaven even though they don’t know the Catholic faith!

Well that is a good thing if that is indeed true and they do make it to Heaven–it is a TERRIBLE thing if they aren’t quite invincibly ignorant and wind up going to Hell not only because of their own actions but because we as Catholics are too lazy to share with them the “Fullness of Truth” because we mistakenly think that they would be better off BEING invincibly ignorant!

I’m a convert–I joined the Catholic faith at age 53.

For many of those years I didn’t have a Catholic share the Catholic faith with me.

If I had died and gone to Hell because of not embracing the Catholic faith years before I would only have myself to blame because I would not have tried to love the Lord with all my mind like Jesus commanded me to do.

I’m not making excuses–I believe for some of those years that I would have gone to Hell because of my own actions–I don’t believe I would have been INVINCIBLY ignorant–I believe I would have been mostly ignorant–but still CULPABLE.

We need to always pray for the CULPABLE out there who though they haven’t heard the Fullness of Truth that is the Catholic faith–still know enough that they WILL be judged for what they do know!

In other words there is no excuse for Catholics to NOT evangelize for the simple reason that we never know WHO knows enough to be judged and who really is invincibly ignorant!

If we truly LOVE our non Catholic brothers and sisters who do not have the “fullness of truth” how can we NOT evangelize? How can we take chances with their souls?

Now I’m sure in the grand scheme of things that God knows who will and will not make it to Heaven–no one gets an unfair deal.

But I’m also sure that if we fail to acknowledge Jesus He will fail to acknowledge us when it comes judgement time–He said so!

We as Catholics know that SOME are invincibly ignorant and that God is merciful and will save them–KNOWING that in no way lessens our responsibility in evangelism.

And if a child right before first communion can confess a mortal sin to a priest–don’t tell me that is is extremely rare and impossible to commit a mortal sin or that you have to have KNOWLEDGE equivalent to Einstein or a PhD in morality or ethics OR that you have to not only have that kind of knowledge but also have to say to yourself in front of the whole world–I know what I’m doing is CERTIFIABLY a mortal sins and I CHOOSE to do it anyway!

That amount of knowledge isn’t required–if a little child can do it–all of us can do it!

Committing a mortal sin does not require canon lawyers and sworn affadavits. ANYONE can commit mortal sin–even all those people around the world who have never heard of Jesus or the Catholic faith.

God can indeed save those people without the sacraments but if they are UNREPENTANT until death --it doesn’t matter how little they know–if they commit MORTAL sin and aren’t sorry for it and die in that state they wind up going to Hell because they have violated the natural law which is written on ALL human hearts.

That’s the COLD hard facts that many do not want to face and that’s the reason why we must always share Christ with the whole world!

We must share the Fullness of the Catholic faith with our Protestant bretheren and let God decide which ones of them know enough and which are invincibly ignorant.

The truly invincibly ignorant will be saved by God’s mercy and those who weren’t invincibly ignorant and convert to the Catholic faith will thank us in Heaven for sharing the Fullness of Truth with them!
 
amfierst said:
I teach a 7th grade CCD class and was asked by one of my students what will happen to her Jewish friend when she dies since her friend does not believe that Jesus is the messiah and our Savior. I told her simply that I like to believe that God gives everyone a second chance to believe after they die. I know we can never truly know the answer until we meet our Creator, but what does our faith teach? And I apologize if this question has already been posted and I missed it.
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I think it would have been wiser to send her to her Jewish friend. Her Jewish friend would have explained that there is only one God and that He is the God of all and that we are all His children. The Jewish friend would have explained the message of the book of Yonah (Jonah) where we learn that redemption is open to all and is not limited to Jews or to the geography of Israel and we see a pagan city redeemed. The Jewish friend would have explained that God judges all of us by our behaviour and that it is easier for the Gentile than for the Jew to get into the World to Come as the Gentile has only to follow the seven Noahide commandments. The Jewish friend would have explained why she finds it offensive to believe that the six million Jewish victims of the Shoah went to Hell, while Hitler, if he was truly repentant and accepted the Christian leader into his heart, may be in heaven. Think about it. Maybe you’ll get a second chance.
 
katholikos12 said:
I do not think he means “forget about everyone else” in terms of salvation. I will not speak for who posted, but surely that’s not what is being said.
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My apologies to the poster…I misunderstood…
 
Jerry-Jet said:
If a SINGLE offense of refusing to investigate when the Holy Spirit prompts investigation is a MORTAL SIN–then if that SINGLE sin is unrepented of until death then yes–a SINGLE OFFENSE will result in damnation.

Notice I did say IF it was a mortal sin.

Only God knows our hearts and can perfectly judge whether we committ a mortal sin or not.

EVERY single decision we make in life has consequences.

You can’t claim to be invincibly ignorant and then pick and choose when you decide to question or not question matters of faith.

A person can be CULPABLE for not trying to loving the Lord with his whole mind.

I’m not saying that no one is invincibly ignorant or that a person doesn’t have to KNOW that the Holy Spirit is prompting him to investigate further matters of faith and refuse that prompting to committ a mortal sin.

What I’m saying is that that does indeed happen!

There are many people who have never been part of the Catholic faith or any faith that feel promptings in their heart and REFUSE to heed them because they are comfortable–they don’t want their hardened hearts to be troubled with the truth.

How often does that happen? I don’t know but that doesn’t mean that God doesn’t know.

There is such a thing as invincible ignorance–all I’m saying is that it happens much less than many people think it does.

People don’t want to face a hard truth like that–many would rather feel warm and fuzzy thinking to themselves that there are many who are invincibly ignorant and isn’t it a great thing that they are and that they get to heaven even though they don’t know the Catholic faith!

Well that is a good thing if that is indeed true and they do make it to Heaven–it is a TERRIBLE thing if they aren’t quite invincibly ignorant and wind up going to Hell not only because of their own actions but because we as Catholics are too lazy to share with them the “Fullness of Truth” because we mistakenly think that they would be better off BEING invincibly ignorant!

I’m a convert–I joined the Catholic faith at age 53.

For many of those years I didn’t have a Catholic share the Catholic faith with me.

If I had died and gone to Hell because of not embracing the Catholic faith years before I would only have myself to blame because I would not have tried to love the Lord with all my mind like Jesus commanded me to do.

I’m not making excuses–I believe for some of those years that I would have gone to Hell because of my own actions–I don’t believe I would have been INVINCIBLY ignorant–I believe I would have been mostly ignorant–but still CULPABLE.

We need to always pray for the CULPABLE out there who though they haven’t heard the Fullness of Truth that is the Catholic faith–still know enough that they WILL be judged for what they do know!

In other words there is no excuse for Catholics to NOT evangelize for the simple reason that we never know WHO knows enough to be judged and who really is invincibly ignorant!

If we truly LOVE our non Catholic brothers and sisters who do not have the “fullness of truth” how can we NOT evangelize? How can we take chances with their souls?

Now I’m sure in the grand scheme of things that God knows who will and will not make it to Heaven–no one gets an unfair deal.

But I’m also sure that if we fail to acknowledge Jesus He will fail to acknowledge us when it comes judgement time–He said so!

We as Catholics know that SOME are invincibly ignorant and that God is merciful and will save them–KNOWING that in no way lessens our responsibility in evangelism.

And if a child right before first communion can confess a mortal sin to a priest–don’t tell me that is is extremely rare and impossible to commit a mortal sin or that you have to have KNOWLEDGE equivalent to Einstein or a PhD in morality or ethics OR that you have to not only have that kind of knowledge but also have to say to yourself in front of the whole world–I know what I’m doing is CERTIFIABLY a mortal sins and I CHOOSE to do it anyway!

That amount of knowledge isn’t required–if a little child can do it–all of us can do it!

Committing a mortal sin does not require canon lawyers and sworn affadavits. ANYONE can commit mortal sin–even all those people around the world who have never heard of Jesus or the Catholic faith.

God can indeed save those people without the sacraments but if they are UNREPENTANT until death --it doesn’t matter how little they know–if they commit MORTAL sin and aren’t sorry for it and die in that state they wind up going to Hell because they have violated the natural law which is written on ALL human hearts.

That’s the COLD hard facts that many do not want to face and that’s the reason why we must always share Christ with the whole world!

We must share the Fullness of the Catholic faith with our Protestant bretheren and let God decide which ones of them know enough and which are invincibly ignorant.

The truly invincibly ignorant will be saved by God’s mercy and those who weren’t invincibly ignorant and convert to the Catholic faith will thank us in Heaven for sharing the Fullness of Truth with them!
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Ok that certainly clears up what I was thinking you were saying, but perhaps an emphasis on Christs work for us, on His mercy and grace. As a former fundamentalist I can assure you that I and many others viewed Catholics as black and white, sin focused and legalistic. Therefore our focus should be on the living in His Grace, not following His law. For out of love of God and living in His grace will come obedience to His law!

Not to understate the seriousness of sin that many overlook, but since we are already labeled as sin serious, should we not then focus on His grace and mercy?

Forgive me if I have misunderstood your post!

Pax
 
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