What has caused the homosexual boom in our time?

[PLinz]

It is weird how such a tiny number, a really fringe group has become the symbol of the progressive struggle against history, nature and all authority.

I am always amazed by people who lead very mainstream lives in terms of having a very traditional family life, who sneer at the mention of traditional family and its values. I honestly don’t understand what goes on in their heads and how they have come to at the same time strive to live in a traditional family and despise it in the name of new tolerance. The whole thing is so incredibly insane and I believe Brendan O’Neill, linked previously, is right: it was a top down project, most people are easily led like sheep and the support for homosexual ‘marriage’ is a great example of mass conformity.

*Such a misunderstanding of the basic demographics of sexual behavior and identity in America has potentially profound implications for the acceptance of the gay-rights agenda. On the one hand, people who overestimate the percent of gay Americans by a factor of 12 seem likely to also wildly overestimate the cultural impact of same-sex marriage. On the other hand, the extraordinary confusion over the percentage of gay people may reflect a triumph of the gay and lesbian movement’s decades-long fight against invisibility and the closet.

“My first reaction to that, aside from a little chuckle, is that it’s actually a sign of the success of the movement for LGBT rights,” said Stuart Gaffney, a spokesman for the group Marriage Equality USA. “We are a small minority, and we will never have full equality without the support of the majority, and a poll like that suggests the majority is extremely aware of their gay neighbors, coworkers, and friends.”*

theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/americans-have-no-idea-how-few-gay-people-there-are/257753/

Many LGBT activists openly gloat at the lies they’ve spread (and have allowed to spread). Millenials - the demographic most likely to support SSM - make a huge overestimation as to the size of the gay demographic. One poll found that Millenials’ support of SSM goes down a noticeable amount when Millenials are told the actual population percentage.

I think this is akin to the Spiral of Silence (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_of_silence).

 

[PLinz]

A few thoughts:

1. In many traditional societies, it’s thought normal for boys to have a period of same sex experimentation with peers (see English boarding schools, for example). As long as a boy “graduated” to women eventually, he wouldn’t be considered homosexual or consider himself anything but a normal, red-blooded guy.
2. Likewise, there’s a lot of traditional opportunistic homosexuality among adults (in prison, for example). As long as the preference is for women (when one is available), a man might consider himself heterosexual.
3. Also, in some traditional societies, it’s possible for a man to have sexual contact with more “effeminate” men and consider himself a “normal” manly man. He’s not homosexual–that would be those other people!
4. It’s even fuzzier with women. Girls are pretty! Lots of women experience sexual feelings toward other women while living “normal” heterosexual lives.

Your comment, from an anthropological perspective, is largely incorrect. I should note that ethnological studies of primitive tribes, particularly in Sub-equatorial Oceania, are mostly wrong (if not fraudulent). In fact, most of what you wrote is Kinsey-tier.

 

[Xantippe]

Your comment, from an anthropological perspective, is largely incorrect. I should note that ethnological studies of primitive tribes, particularly in Sub-equatorial Oceania, are mostly wrong (if not fraudulent). In fact, most of what you wrote is Kinsey-tier.

I know nothing about Oceania.

My information about old-time English boys’ boarding schools is from early 20th century memoirs. Orwell talks about it in his memoir and C.S. Lewis talks about the culture of school boy homosexuality in his memoir “Surprised by Joy.” It’s a very interesting chapter–I suggest having a look. C.S. Lewis says that it was opportunistic–if they’d had girls, they would have preferred girls, but they didn’t, so the older school boys would have relationships with young boys.

Then there’s the custom in many traditional cultures of technically heterosexual adult men having physical relationships with young boys. That was the system in ancient Greece. In the modern day world, something similar persists in Afghanistan with “dancing boys”.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_bazi

Do you really believe that pederasty wasn’t a thing in ancient Greece?

“In classical antiquity, writers such as Herodotus,[1] Plato,[2] Xenophon,[3] Athenaeus[4] and many others explored aspects of same-sex love in ancient Greece. The most widespread and socially significant form of same-sex sexual relations in ancient Greece was between adult men and pubescent or adolescent boys, known as pederasty (marriages in Ancient Greece between men and women were also age structured, with men in their thirties commonly taking wives in their early teens).[5] Though homosexual relationships between adult men did exist, at least one member of each of these relationships flouted social conventions by assuming a passive sexual role.”

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_ancient_Greece

“The ancient Greeks did not conceive of sexual orientation as a social identifier as modern Western societies have done. Greek society did not distinguish sexual desire or behavior by the gender of the participants, but rather by the role that each participant played in the sex act, that of active penetrator or passive penetrated.[6] This active/passive polarization corresponded with dominant and submissive social roles: the active (penetrative) role was associated with masculinity, higher social status, and adulthood, while the passive role was associated with femininity, lower social status, and youth.[6]”

Note that this is very different than what we think of as homosexuality today.

 

[Crown_of_Stars]

It almost seems to me like it’s more of a fad than anything else. I know homosexuals have been around since the Bible, and before, and I don’t know what could have caused it then… But lately, it’s just all you hear about. As far as transgender and not knowing which sex you are, and now children not “feeling right” in their own body, I just can’t help but think minds have been deliberately turned. It just seems as though there’s so much focus on sexual identity, whereas long ago, one just never thought about it. It just wasn’t an issue. You were what you were, you felt right, you got on with your life, and that was it. The whole thing just seems rather ridiculous to me. Not to sound insensitive. I understand this as a true emotional disorder. Not even so much same-sex attraction as not “feeling” like you’re the right gender. This just seems to be a fairly new epidemic. Unless we’re just hearing of it more and more and more. I wonder when/ if all of this sexuality talk and confusion will finally just die out, and we’ll be on to something else. My honest opinion is that the whole confusion over gender thing (not being same-sex attracted) is bizarre. We need to try to help these people, not glorify them and go out of our way to be “proud” and seem to want more of them.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I wonder when/ if all of this sexuality talk and confusion will finally just die out, and we’ll be on to something else. My honest opinion is that the whole confusion over gender thing (not being same-sex attracted) is bizarre.

I also wish for this trend to die out, but I’m afraid that it won’t go away any time soon. We are dealing with secularism, a godless ideology focused only on the material world. They have nothing else but the body and hence they are so focused on it. They have nowhere to go (as long as they stay secular).

 

[GEddie]

I also wish for this trend to die out, but I’m afraid that it won’t go away any time soon. We are dealing with secularism, a godless ideology focused only on the material world.** They have nothing else but the body and hence they are so focused on it.** They have nowhere to go (as long as they stay secular).

It’s not about the body!

If gender issues were about the body, then perforce people would accept the “gender” of their solid body. The fact they don’t, that some even claim to have the wrong body, as if that were possible, shows that something else is at work.

Methinks this is just the latest iteration of what CS Lewis wrote about in his last published article, in 1963: the drive to specifically “sexual happiness,” as defined by the feelings, even though in this case even one’s own body gets in the way.

If the current insanity were about the body, they wouldn’t be trying to change their bodies.

And it will change again, but not for a long time. The pendulum must reach its apogee and swing back. But when it does, having gone out so far, it will return to a point that makes Victorianism look like a drunken college party.

ICXC NIKA

 

[mommy_k]

I believe it’s too much gay awareness. I am all for “don’t ask, don’t tell”.

I long for the days when gay meant happy, and private lives were private.

 

[GEddie]

I believe it’s too much gay awareness. I am all for “don’t ask, don’t tell”.

I long for the days when gay meant happy, and private lives were private.

:thumbsup

Not people, but some classes of behavior, **belong **in the closet.

ICXC NIKA.

 

[SwizzleStick]

I believe it’s too much gay awareness. I am all for “don’t ask, don’t tell”.

I long for the days when gay meant happy, and private lives were private.

:clapping::yup:

:sad_yes:

 

[punisherthunder]

It’s an equation really.

Rabid slobbering liberals + teens/twentysomething who are atheist + the “guilt” you are supposed to feel for not letting people “freely love” = homosexual boom.

 

[Sarcelle]

Is it due to physical and/or social environmental changes? Was the sexual revolution of the 60s a factor? What exactly was the sexual revolution? Did the introduction of the pills, condoms and other birth control methods contribute to the rise of people suffering from same sex attraction? Does abortion plays a role? What about the so-called women liberation movement? Was such an abundance always there and just manifested itself? Has the internet played a role in promoting same sex attraction?

There have always been homosexuals. They kept a low profile in the past but now are honest about it.

 

[Sarcelle]

Why not? His idea makes sense to me, too. Get the young people wasting their fertile years on unproductive activities of any kind and they’re bound to have a lot fewer children.

The key is to discourage premarital sex, artificial contraception and encourage an openness to life among married couples. Parents should model a healthy marriage for their kids to emulate and there should be lots of kids appearing in short order.

Who knew, the Church had the answer all along.

 

[GEddie]

The key is to discourage premarital sex, artificial contraception and encourage an openness to life among married couples. Parents should model a healthy marriage for their kids to emulate and there should be lots of kids appearing in short order.

Who knew, the Church had the answer all along.

Which is why when the current culture has fully collapsed under its own weight, the Catholic culture will reappear.

ICXC NIKA

 

[EasterJoy]

A few thoughts:

1. In many traditional societies, it’s thought normal for boys to have a period of same sex experimentation with peers (see English boarding schools, for example). As long as a boy “graduated” to women eventually, he wouldn’t be considered homosexual or consider himself anything but a normal, red-blooded guy.
2. Likewise, there’s a lot of traditional opportunistic homosexuality among adults (in prison, for example). As long as the preference is for women (when one is available), a man might consider himself heterosexual.
3. Also, in some traditional societies, it’s possible for a man to have sexual contact with more “effeminate” men and consider himself a “normal” manly man. He’s not homosexual–that would be those other people!
4. It’s even fuzzier with women. Girls are pretty! Lots of women experience sexual feelings toward other women while living “normal” heterosexual lives.

Here, I think culture starts being even more important than it is with men.

“Psychologist John Buss estimates that for most of human history, perhaps 2% of women have been lesbian or bisexual (see note 1, below). Not any more. Recent surveys of teenage girls and young women find that roughly 15% of young females today self-identify as lesbian or bisexual, compared with about 5% of young males who identify as gay or bisexual (see note 2, below).”

psychologytoday.com/blog/sax-sex/201004/why-are-so-many-girls-lesbian-or-bisexual

English boarding schools? *Prison? *That isn’t “experimentation”! That is institutionalized rape and prostitution!

As far as the number of young women who consider themselves lesbian or bisexual, do not neglect the effect of the demonization of the male and of the masculine by certain feminists (both female and male). Excepting when expressed by either sex on a sports field–and among the most ardent feminists, not even then–the behaviors that can be linked to testosterone have gone from the top of an unrealistic pedestal to the status of an unmitigated evil in a generation. The only difference of opinion is whether the “evil” is “necessary” or not! Now it is the feminine that is on the unrealistic cultural pedestal where there is no wrong.

If I am wrong, account for the popularity of this little quip:
A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle. –Gloria Steinem

 

[GEddie]

English boarding schools? *Prison? *That isn’t “experimentation”! That is institutionalized rape and prostitution!

As far as the number of young women who consider themselves lesbian or bisexual, do not neglect the effect of the demonization of the male and of the masculine by certain feminists (both female and male). Excepting when expressed by either sex on a sports field–and among the most ardent feminists, not even then–the behaviors that can be linked to testosterone have gone from the top of an unrealistic pedestal to the status of an unmitigated evil in a generation. The only difference of opinion is whether the “evil” is “necessary” or not! Now it is the feminine that is on the unrealistic cultural pedestal where there is no wrong.

If I am wrong, account for the popularity of this little quip:
A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle. –Gloria Steinem

Indeed. Since the late 1900s, females can do no wrong, and males can do no right. Just listen to Doctor Laura.

Yet at the same time that femalism is placed on a pedestal, the great glory of the feminine, children, has been denigrated. Consider the companion quote to the one above quoted:

**“If I wanted to hear the pitter-patter of little feet, I’d put boots on my cat!” **

ICXC NIKA.

 

[Abba]

Hey, hey. What happened? Here we were looking good with five shining yellow stars and then …there are two.

 

[Abba]

In truth, you are seeing a lot more than there really is (percentage wise). What I mean by that is that, at most, the entire LGBT community makes up about 4% of the population, at least according to all of the legitimate studies I’ve seen. My anecdotal experience lines up pretty closely with that estimate.

But from the media attention – including the news, but also characters in fictional shows and films – you would think it was much more.

That’s a good point. In truth, in my region there has not been an actual increase. But, there is a lot of media attention. The gay lobby has been successful in taking power of small power groups which can bring about social changes. There is also the fact that people with SSA are holding public positions and positions in the educational system. The youngster are ‘taught’ how the homosexual lifestyle is fine and should be accepted and it is done very subtlety.

One mayor factor, which has not been mentioned thus far, is the success of the gay-lobby of having remove from the DSM-IV homosexuality as a mental disorder. I think we are now suffering from a type of social confusion as a consequence. I also agree with the poster who noted that ‘politics’ is a factor.

It seems to me that all these changes are being imposed on society by a very small group whose lobby members are very astute.

 

[PLinz]

I know nothing about Oceania.

My information about old-time English boys’ boarding schools is from early 20th century memoirs. Orwell talks about it in his memoir and C.S. Lewis talks about the culture of school boy homosexuality in his memoir “Surprised by Joy.” It’s a very interesting chapter–I suggest having a look. C.S. Lewis says that it was opportunistic–if they’d had girls, they would have preferred girls, but they didn’t, so the older school boys would have relationships with young boys.

That’s very anecdotal, and as it turns out, quite incorrect in general. Yes, it existed, but it bears little resemblance to your summary.

Then there’s the custom in many traditional cultures of technically heterosexual adult men having physical relationships with young boys. That was the system in ancient Greece. In the modern day world, something similar persists in Afghanistan with “dancing boys”.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_bazi

Do you really believe that pederasty wasn’t a thing in ancient Greece?

“In classical antiquity, writers such as Herodotus,[1] Plato,[2] Xenophon,[3] Athenaeus[4] and many others explored aspects of same-sex love in ancient Greece. The most widespread and socially significant form of same-sex sexual relations in ancient Greece was between adult men and pubescent or adolescent boys, known as pederasty (marriages in Ancient Greece between men and women were also age structured, with men in their thirties commonly taking wives in their early teens).[5] Though homosexual relationships between adult men did exist, at least one member of each of these relationships flouted social conventions by assuming a passive sexual role.”

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_ancient_Greece

“The ancient Greeks did not conceive of sexual orientation as a social identifier as modern Western societies have done. Greek society did not distinguish sexual desire or behavior by the gender of the participants, but rather by the role that each participant played in the sex act, that of active penetrator or passive penetrated.[6] This active/passive polarization corresponded with dominant and submissive social roles: the active (penetrative) role was associated with masculinity, higher social status, and adulthood, while the passive role was associated with femininity, lower social status, and youth.[6]”

Note that this is very different than what we think of as homosexuality today.

You’ve cited one concrete example (which, incidentally, is very often embellished due to the current cultural climate). Your use of Wikipedia is also quite telling. (Have you looked closely at the sources that are used? Are they balanced in a scholarly fashion? Are they reputable? Are they peer-reviewed?) I can pull out sources that will back up a claim that the Chinese were first to land in the Americas - that doesn’t mean it actually happened.

From your comment, it is quite evident that you’re parroting what you’ve been taught without having investigated it. Am I correct in assuming you’ve learned (“learned”) most of what you’ve repeated here in an American college?

 

[Abba]

It would be good if in the next census questions are asked which will ultimately provide a good estimate of the population of people with SSA. Then, this figure can be used as a base to determine if it decreases, increases or remains stable.

 

[chevalier]

Marketing. Have you considered that, despite the opportunistic homosexuality in prisons etc., homosexuality tends to be more prominent amongst the liberal elites, where it also meets less opposition than in the other demographics? Elites are by definition small numbers, small circles of people that have disproportionate access to wealth or to publicity or opinion-making authority. And combine that with conscious, methodical PR/marketing campaign direction.

As far as the sexual revolution goes, apart from the general relaxation of morals and — perhaps more importantly — the idea that man is free to redefine sexuality, I think more people may be starting to act bisexual.

The latter is probably connected to the fact that pleasure is always pleasure. If a heterosexual person is capable of receiving carnal pleasure from one’s own touch (masturbation) or even ‘toys’, then it scarcely seems impossible for a heterosexual person to find at least purely venereal pleasure — first of all of the ‘release’ kind if nothing more uplifting — from the touch of a person of one’s own sex. Where sexual activity is similar to enhanced masturbation, i.e. masturbation with more complex, more sophisticated tools, then perhaps the identity or type of the tool is not critical at that kind of base level.

Besides, one ought to remember that ‘orientation’ is not a safe concept. Even the ‘hetero’ vs ‘homo’ terminology may part of the kind of discourse that perhaps moves what used to be a subtype of masturbation to a whole new level of ‘orientation’. Except maybe what concerns distorted sex identity (distorted, partially erratic self-identification as male or female), as in some kind of hermaphroditism. Hence, I wouldn’t take it for granted that ‘orientation’ actually exists in the form that the use of the term implies.

But I may be going too far in this.