What has denim ever done to you?

[on_the_hill]

Haha!

My teenage daughters would disagree with you. They claim only moms wear denim skirts…and they weren’t referring to fashionable young moms. My closet is now clear of denim skirts.

Well, I will say this:
I live where there is a very large population of Plain people, and there are different levels of conservatism among the sects. I’ve seen young Plain women wearing denim skirts that are ankle length and longer–and the cut and fit of the skirts is not at all “mom-ish,” if you get my drift.

 

[pensmama87]

Your right, I know lots of folks with one or two nice outfits that alternate every other Sunday for church.

That’s pretty much us. My husband has more variety because he has an office job, but I tend to wear the same two or three outfits to Mass.

I used to go to daily Mass and I would wear jeans then, but I associate jeans with my “mom uniform.” They are work clothes, and I think denim still has that connotation. So I wouldn’t feel dressed up wearing them on Sundays. But that’s just me.

I try not to notice what other people wear at Mass. I do, sometimes, but denim isn’t even a blip on the radar compared to some of the other getups.

 

[pianistclare]

When I first started attending Catholic churches in 1989 (converted in 1991) I was SHOCKED at what people wore to Mass. We grew up dressing up for Church as a sign of respect. It was one of the hardest things to get used to seeing. We were middle-class, but both my parents grew up very poor, and never would have thought of wearing less than a suit or nice dress/skirt to church. I’m not sure the argument of income holds much water. A skirt doesn’t cost more than jeans. If you go into some of the poorest, minority neighborhoods in the South you will see people dressed to the nines for church.

I am in the South, people were jeans a lot of the time.
People in the African American churches dress up. Not necessarily in the Catholic churches. Income is an issue. Sure, you can get a cheap, ill fitting skirt. Or you can wear the clothes you already have and feel welcome in the Church. Or feel ostracized because people are looking down on you. Mother Theresa had gnarled, calloused feet and sandals that were falling apart. I doubt if anyone asked her to get better clothes and shoes. Nobody questioned her piety.

 

[Xantippe]

I am in the South, people were jeans a lot of the time.
People in the African American churches dress up. Not necessarily in the Catholic churches. Income is an issue. Sure, you can get a cheap, ill fitting skirt. Or you can wear the clothes you already have and feel welcome in the Church. Or feel ostracized because people are looking down on you. Mother Theresa had gnarled, calloused feet and sandals that were falling apart. I doubt if anyone asked her to get better clothes and shoes. Nobody questioned her piety.

People can’t necessarily afford their “nice” church clothes. There may be substantial pressure in certain communities (the Jehovah’s Witnesses and prosperity doctrine churches come to mind) to dress above one’s means. There may be substantial hardship involved in keeping up with the Joneses at church.

 

[EasterJoy]

I know. I agree.
It’s just a fabric. Why should it be treated any differently than cotton or wool?

In fact, since it was traditionally cheaper in price than other fabrics it should be embraced even more than other fabrics in church, since it would be the fabric of the poor.
And it should also be admired and embraced because it is a durable fabric.

Some people equate it with the bad rep it got via Brando/Dean rebels, I think. But that is not fair and it’s illogical and needless. And unwise.

Get a grip, it’s just a fabric.
No need to attach all sorts of negative meanings to it!

.

It has nothing to do with the fabric being bad. It is not a negative connotation. It is a connotation that particular apparel is very appropriate is some venues and yet not appropriate in others, like gym shorts, or a bathing suit, or golf shoes. They can cost $90, but that doesn’t mean you ought to wear them into a work place, a court, or to church.

There are places, BTW, where a very new pair of jeans is considered “dressing up,” and in those places the situation is quite different. Most of the time, though, it is only men with manual labor jobs who wear their best jeans and boots to dress up. For most other people, to wear jeans is to dress down for a casual time, and not for events that call for any solemnity.

 

[EasterJoy]

People can’t necessarily afford their “nice” church clothes. There may be substantial pressure in certain communities (the Jehovah’s Witnesses and prosperity doctrine churches come to mind) to dress above one’s means. There may be substantial hardship involved in keeping up with the Joneses at church.

There are slacks that wear as well and cost as little as jeans. I’ve been to JC Penney and Sears, so I can vouch for that. As far as dressing above your means, while solemnity is called for, it is better to dress simply for Sunday than to be ostentatious about your means. That doesn’t mean to dress in an overly casual manner. It means that more solemn clothing is available in every price category. We’re talking slacks and a shirt with a collar. There are some who can’t afford that much, but far fewer than the number who claim it.

It is like choosing a dress with sleeves. People sometimes talk as if a young healthy person will die of heat stroke if she wears a dress with so much as a cap sleeve when the weather is hot and the humidity is high. It is nonsense–none of the old ladies are wearing sleeveless dresses into the same church, and yet somehow they are not passing out. I do not mean you, just that some of the objections people make about having any local standards of dress for Sunday Mass do not make a lot of sense, when compared to the reality in the pews.

It is best to just ignore what other people wear, but that is not quite the same as telling anyone who asks that no one is edified by seeing other people choose clothing that they’d choose for work for Mass instead of wearing what they’d choose for Friday night after work. Still, if you’re not asked, it is better to think the best of others and mind your own business, choosing your own clothes and let others choose theirs. If that is what you are saying, I do agree with that.

 

[EasterJoy]

I am in the South, people were jeans a lot of the time.
People in the African American churches dress up. Not necessarily in the Catholic churches. Income is an issue. Sure, you can get a cheap, ill fitting skirt. Or you can wear the clothes you already have and feel welcome in the Church. Or feel ostracized because people are looking down on you. Mother Theresa had gnarled, calloused feet and sandals that were falling apart. I doubt if anyone asked her to get better clothes and shoes. Nobody questioned her piety.

Actually, Mother Teresa and her Missionaries of Charity Sisters used to have a white sari with a single border of blue for their habit until a few pious parents of some of the sisters protested at the lack of decorum of the order’s religious habit. In those days, the single blue bordered white sari was worn by poor sweeper women working for a Calcutta corporation. Mother asked her bishop for permission to change their habit to a sari with three stripes, and her request was granted. Her sisters are each assigned three saris–one to wear, one to wash, and one to mend–but with three blue stripes, not one. Their habit was chosen to be appropriate for Mass, indicative of a woman set aside to be a Missionary of Charity, rather than just the same as any other poor working woman.

 

[PhiloMed]

The denim issue always seemed silly to me when it comes up in the ever-present modesty threads. My husband is an advertising executive in NYC. Guess what they all wear to work each day? Yup. Jeans. As another poster mentioned, some styles and cuts can be quite “dressed up” appearing. And what about a denim jacket? Does that suddenly make my skirt and blouse unworthy? Of course not.

People need to stop worrying about what other people are wearing and focus on the mass.

 

[Xantippe]

There are slacks that wear as well and cost as little as jeans. I’ve been to JC Penney and Sears, so I can vouch for that. As far as dressing above your means, while solemnity is called for, it is better to dress simply for Sunday than to be ostentatious about your means. That doesn’t mean to dress in an overly casual manner. It means that more solemn clothing is available in every price category. We’re talking slacks and a shirt with a collar. There are some who can’t afford that much, but far fewer than the number who claim it.

It is like choosing a dress with sleeves. People sometimes talk as if a young healthy person will die of heat stroke if she wears a dress with so much as a cap sleeve when the weather is hot and the humidity is high. It is nonsense–none of the old ladies are wearing sleeveless dresses into the same church, and yet somehow they are not passing out. I do not mean you, just that some of the objections people make about having any local standards of dress for Sunday Mass do not make a lot of sense, when compared to the reality in the pews.

It is best to just ignore what other people wear, but that is not quite the same as telling anyone who asks that no one is edified by seeing other people choose clothing that they’d choose for work for Mass instead of wearing what they’d choose for Friday night after work. Still, if you’re not asked, it is better to think the best of others and mind your own business, choosing your own clothes and let others choose theirs. If that is what you are saying, I do agree with that.

What I mean is that holding up the dressier Protestants as a good example is not necessarily a good idea–in that case, we’re not talking about J.C. Penney’s slacks and a collared shirt (particularly not for the ladies!!!), and there may in fact be a lot of sacrifice involved in keeping up with the church crowd fashion-wise, just as a lot of people may not be able to afford the after-church restaurant brunches that they feel compelled to go to if they want to “fellowship” with their brethren.

Our Protestant friends have a lot of issues that may not be apparent to people who haven’t lived among them.

thecommonroomblog.com/2011/02/accidental-burdens.html

thecommonroomblog.com/2011/02/accidental-burdens-2.html

 

[pianistclare]

The denim issue always seemed silly to me when it comes up in the ever-present modesty threads. My husband is an advertising executive in NYC. Guess what they all wear to work each day? Yup. Jeans. As another poster mentioned, some styles and cuts can be quite “dressed up” appearing. And what about a denim jacket? Does that suddenly make my skirt and blouse unworthy? Of course not.

People need to stop worrying about what other people are wearing and focus on the mass.

Precisely.

 

[AlTheCollegeGal]

I do not see a problem with denim, especially because it can be dressed up or down. I doubt most people at first glance at an outfit like this would immediately recognize that this woman is wearing jeans: redbookmag.com/beauty-fashion/tips-advice/dark-trouser-jeans#slide-3

It is also being marketed as a work-appropriate outfit. I think denim, like other fabrics, can either look very classy or not depending on what one chooses to pair it with. It is also a lot more breathable and comfortable than other fabrics.

 

[EasterJoy]

What I mean is that holding up the dressier Protestants as a good example is not necessarily a good idea–in that case, we’re not talking about J.C. Penney’s slacks and a collared shirt (particularly not for the ladies!!!), and there may in fact be a lot of sacrifice involved in keeping up with the church crowd fashion-wise, just as a lot of people may not be able to afford the after-church restaurant brunches that they feel compelled to go to if they want to “fellowship” with their brethren.

Our Protestant friends have a lot of issues that may not be apparent to people who haven’t lived among them.

thecommonroomblog.com/2011/02/accidental-burdens.html

thecommonroomblog.com/2011/02/accidental-burdens-2.html

The general issues are these:

1. Between sports or leisure wear and more “professional” wear, the professional wear is preferred for Sunday and Holy Day Masses. Sunday Mass is the high point of a Catholic’s week, and it deserves to be prepared for in its own right and dressed for in its own right, rather than to be a “stop” between the events for which the Catholic chooses clothing appropriate to those venues. (In contrast, people normally wear the clothing proper to their work day to daily Mass. Although the high point of their work day, daily Mass is part of a work day, not the high point of a day set aside primarily for worship and resting in God.) It is often remarked-upon that less affluent people are actually the least likely to dress in a slovenly manner for Mass. By the plain reading of the New Testament, OTOH, between the choice of solemn but simple or solemn but obviously expensive, the more simple clothing is to be preferred generally.
2. Unless one of your duties at your parish is to establish and communicate dress codes for certain people–such as the choir or the altar servers or the lectors, et cetera–then dress codes at church are for you to think about in your own closet. It is very rare that a Catholic needs to have an opinion about what other people wear to Mass. Even if it is your duty to communicate dress codes, it is best to confine yourself to the audience that it is your duty to address.

On that account, this kind of thread really ought to be a place for Catholics to sound out how others respond to the various clothing choices they might make. It is better if it doesn’t become a place to complain about our brothers and sisters in the faith who see things differently or for reasons we cannot fully know seem to put little care into dressing for Mass, as tempting as that obviously is.

I would point out that I know a family in which the parents required a “no jeans” policy until their children reached age 18. The children report that they eagerly wore jeans to church for a few Sundays after it became their decision, but they all went back to wearing clothing that was nicer. They found that they liked being dressed especially for Mass, rather than dressing as if they were just out and about for a leisure activity. Those who have never tried making an effort to look their best for Mass ought to try it, then. They may find it changes the experience for them in a positive way.

 

[Xantippe]

The general issues are these:

1. Between sports or leisure wear and more “professional” wear, the professional wear is preferred for Sunday and Holy Day Masses. Sunday Mass is the high point of a Catholic’s week, and it deserves to be prepared for in its own right and dressed for in its own right, rather than to be a “stop” between the events for which the Catholic chooses clothing appropriate to those venues. (In contrast, people normally wear the clothing proper to their work day to daily Mass. Although the high point of their work day, daily Mass is part of a work day, not the high point of a day set aside primarily for worship and resting in God.) It is often remarked-upon that less affluent people are actually the least likely to dress in a slovenly manner for Mass. By the plain reading of the New Testament, OTOH, between the choice of solemn but simple or solemn but obviously expensive, the more simple clothing is to be preferred generally.
2. Unless one of your duties at your parish is to establish and communicate dress codes for certain people–such as the choir or the altar servers or the lectors, et cetera–then dress codes at church are for you to think about in your own closet. It is very rare that a Catholic needs to have an opinion about what other people wear to Mass. Even if it is your duty to communicate dress codes, it is best to confine yourself to the audience that it is your duty to address.

On that account, this kind of thread really ought to be a place for Catholics to sound out how others respond to the various clothing choices they might make. It is better if it doesn’t become a place to complain about our brothers and sisters in the faith who see things differently or for reasons we cannot fully know seem to put little care into dressing for Mass, as tempting as that obviously is.

I would point out that I know a family in which the parents required a “no jeans” policy until their children reached age 18. The children report that they eagerly wore jeans to church for a few Sundays after it became their decision, but they all went back to wearing clothing that was nicer. They found that they liked being dressed especially for Mass, rather than dressing as if they were just out and about for a leisure activity. Those who have never tried making an effort to look their best for Mass ought to try it, then. They may find it changes the experience for them in a positive way.

I think we’d never actually make it out the door if we had to live up to some people’s standards. A year or two ago, I don’t think I even owned anything some people in this thread would regard as church suitable–due to about five years of no shopping in person in clothing stores, my entire wardrobe had somehow evolved in the direction of short-sleeved knit tops and stretchy knit pants, which I wore literally everywhere. Some people would think that jeans would have been a big step forward.

Funny story: years ago, when I was a little girl, my mom entrusted me with dressing baby sister for church one Sunday (it was a Pentecostal church). Anyway, my mom only noticed after we had arrived at church that I had forgotten baby sister’s underpants.

That’s life with a family. People should be merciful to their fellow Christians and be happy that they made it.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

Jeans in and of themselves are not necessarily problematic, it is the rips, tears, severe fades etc. that is problematic. Additionally blue colored jeans are very casual.

I usually go with black jeans (I need something exceptionally hard wearing), a button down, nice belt and very nice yet hard wearing shoes (nice enough that I could wear with a suit). I often and coming back from work and have no time to change.

 

[EasterJoy]

People should be merciful to their fellow Christians and be happy that they made it.

This is entirely in keeping with the Letter of James, when the topic is what someone else is wearing. It is certainly what you ought to tell yourself, too, when you are wearing something less appropriate than you would like, but it cannot be helped. You should not spend your time fretting about being judged rashly. If someone else’s weak conscience is harmed, that is regrettable, but when it can’t be helped, it can’t be helped.

When you could do better and you are too lazy to be bothered to do better, though, or if the weak conscience of others is not something you want to bother with, then saying to yourself that *everyone else *should just be happy to see you there no matter how you decide to present yourself is not a good habit. You can’t please everyone, but that doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t care about anyone else.

The main thing to ask yourself is this: Is my decision made for reasons that are self-centered or are my reasons centered on treating my neighbor as well as I can and doing my best to give glory to God, who made all and loves all and who has shown such unending generosity towards me? That means you select your own clothing with others in mind and with God in mind, but you do not get wound up about whether others choose their clothing with you in mind. If you are asked, you make your explanation gently. If you are not asked, you assume others have no motives but the best and let it go.

 

[Xantippe]

This is entirely in keeping with the Letter of James, when the topic is what someone else is wearing. It is certainly what you ought to tell yourself, too, when you are wearing something less appropriate than you would like, but it cannot be helped. You should not spend your time fretting about being judged rashly. If someone else’s weak conscience is harmed, that is regrettable, but when it can’t be helped, it can’t be helped.

When you could do better and you are too lazy to be bothered to do better, though, or if the weak conscience of others is not something you want to bother with, then saying to yourself that *everyone else *should just be happy to see you there no matter how you decide to present yourself is not a good habit. You can’t please everyone, but that doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t care about anyone else.

The main thing to ask yourself is this: Is my decision made for reasons that are self-centered or are my reasons centered on treating my neighbor as well as I can and doing my best to give glory to God, who made all and loves all and who has shown such unending generosity towards me? That means you select your own clothing with others in mind and with God in mind, but you do not get wound up about whether others choose their clothing with you in mind. If you are asked, you make your explanation gently. If you are not asked, you assume others have no motives but the best and let it go.

There’s also the issue of the other people we are in charge of dressing. Does it necessarily glorify God to put our children into stiff, itchy and unfamiliar clothing that will distract them throughout Mass? Probably not.

 

[pianistclare]

I would ask myself…

Why am I fretting over other people’s clothing?

 

[EasterJoy]

There’s also the issue of the other people we are in charge of dressing. Does it necessarily glorify God to put our children into stiff, itchy and unfamiliar clothing that will distract them throughout Mass? Probably not.

A very good point! I remember C.S. Lewis making it a point to say that in Narnia one’s dress clothes also feel good! Still, with regards to the thread topic, there are many fabrics that feel just as good as denim. Denim wears well, but it wasn’t invented to be the best-feeling fabric ever made.

 

[cheezey]

I would ask myself…

Why am I fretting over other people’s clothing?

( I see acid washed jeans may be making a comeback!! )

 

[CompSciGuy]

Because we are Catholics, NOT Pentecostals.