What has happened to our "Catholic" colleges?

[Rach620]

Well Belmont Abbey so far hasn’t seem to be too bad. I can’t help what some of the other students do, but the monestery and church can be were I spend my time outside of class, make friends with the monks and priests instead of the other students.

What I realized from my own college search was that the “perfect” Catholic university doesn’t exist, but that there was a place where I could learn and contribute quite a lot. There comes a point when we have to break out of our Catholic “bubble” and exist in the world, a world which will challenge us, but at the same time help us grow. God does this in many ways–shockingly not only through relationships with other uber-orthodox Catholics! My advice is not to avoid building relationships with fellow students… you’ll surely miss out on a lot of life lessons and good relationships. You’re called to be a Christian witness to others–being a friend doesn’t necessarily mean condoning others’ immoral behavior.

Besides, I’m sure you’ll find other students like yourself, who will help shape you into a faithful and mature Catholic. Don’t close yourself off to those relationships!

 

[Island_Oak]

What I realized from my own college search was that the “perfect” Catholic university doesn’t exist, but that there was a place where I could learn and contribute quite a lot. There comes a point when we have to break out of our Catholic “bubble” and exist in the world, a world which will challenge us, but at the same time help us grow. God does this in many ways–shockingly not only through relationships with other uber-orthodox Catholics! My advice is not to avoid building relationships with fellow students… you’ll surely miss out on a lot of life lessons and good relationships. You’re called to be a Christian witness to others–being a friend doesn’t necessarily mean condoning others’ immoral behavior.

Besides, I’m sure you’ll find other students like yourself, who will help shape you into a faithful and mature Catholic. Don’t close yourself off to those relationships!

Thoughful response and excellent points. One would be missing the heart and soul of the college experience if socializing was limited to adults only–as in the monks and priests.

 

[BryPGuy89]

What I realized from my own college search was that the “perfect” Catholic university doesn’t exist, but that there was a place where I could learn and contribute quite a lot. There comes a point when we have to break out of our Catholic “bubble” and exist in the world, a world which will challenge us, but at the same time help us grow. God does this in many ways–shockingly not only through relationships with other uber-orthodox Catholics! My advice is not to avoid building relationships with fellow students… you’ll surely miss out on a lot of life lessons and good relationships. You’re called to be a Christian witness to others–being a friend doesn’t necessarily mean condoning others’ immoral behavior.

Besides, I’m sure you’ll find other students like yourself, who will help shape you into a faithful and mature Catholic. Don’t close yourself off to those relationships!

Well see I’m trying to get into a Catholic “bubble” I guess. I live in the south were there are very few Catholic churches more or less Catholics. I’m the only Catholic in my entire family and I ahd to fight to get there for years, still am actually. I wasn’t completely serious, , about hiding from the other students, but it would make things easier at the time, lol.

 

[Meggie]

I go to Niagara University near Niagara Falls,

Our dorms are co-ed by floor. Its never been a problem, girls stay on their floor, guys stay on theirs. There are some who drink, smoke pot and have sex, probably half the students, maybe more, but the other half, the people who I hang out with…are great and faithful christians/catholics.

There are 10 resident priests, 4 brothers, and a three or four sisters who work here. They are, in genral, faithful to the magisterium. They teach religion, aid in service organizations, and even in theatre.

We have Daily Mass and Bi-Weekly Adoration…as well as oppurtunities for confession and extra-curricular theological discussion. And LOADS of voulenteerism, becuase of St. Vincent and his mission to serve the poor.

There isn’t perfect Catholic colleges, those who are completely doctornial tend not to live in reality and prepare students for the “real world” yes, its an awsome and fortifying experiance, but the focus is on self insted of others…imo there’s alot of isolation and supiorism, at “pure” Catholic colleges while we at NU, a college of 3,000 (i forget) contribute over 24,000 voulenteer hours a YEAR.

Thats my 2 cents.

 

[Meggie]

Perhaps someone will start a homeschooling college to keep a lid on these naughty young adults?

Its call Crististendom…

I spelled that wrong, but its still the point…

great at handing out “Mrs” degrees.

 

[hasikelee]

Its call Crististendom…

I spelled that wrong, but its still the point…

great at handing out “Mrs” degrees.

Naughty young adults are one thing, and to be assumed as well. I mean, young adults, poorly formed in their instruction, naive to consequences, wanting to party, without parents around, duh.

But having the theology teacher make you write a paper about how Christ is a homosexual is on a whole other level.

I don’t care or mind if the student body is immoral. They can do their own thing, no need to socialize with them, I have plenty of other friends, KWIM? It’s the teachers, professors, faculty, whatchmadingles that I can’t believe.

 

[Mattapoisett64]

Today’s Boston Globe (you can Google their website) has a 3-page article on just this question. Dicsusses how various Boston-area Catholic colleges are facing fewer faculty in religious orders, and fewer incoming freshmen from Catholic high schools. Of course, nothing in our People’s Republic of Massachusetts is quite on a par with Ave Maria or Steubenville.

 

[Ridgerunner]

My fiancee attended Saint Louis University.

It was a filthy breeding place of immorality. Utterly destructive. The theology teacher was a homosexual bent on using his classes to impart every twisted lie possibly made about the church.

Then the VM play came to town and all the liberal studies teachers were requiring attendence to pass their classes (sociology, psycholog, art, english, etc). Something about open discussion…

And I must add that I am not speaking enough about how ridiculously crazy this campus was. I am underestimating as it is.

The local community college is completely secular and still allows more open thought and learning than this college.

P.S. I have heard a lot about how grand Ave Maria is but they can get pretty extreme over there. (After visiting down there, and also watching a few years of my friends’ progress, I definitely see SSPX attitudes).

My son attended SLU for a year and a half, then transferred to Missouri State. He heard attacks on the Church by teachers at SLU, but not at Mo. State. Not all teachers at SLU are like that, and my son had some who were faithful to the Church. But many professors are hostile to the Church, and the atmosphere is extremely “Cafeteria” when it’s not outright hostile to Catholicism. One professor (a secular-type “nun”) even made fun of JPII when his motorcade passed by SLU. It was a relief to my son to attend Mo. State, and not have to listen to anti-Catholic professorial diatribes anymore. Since SLU costs about $20,000.00 more per year than Mo. State, and is less demanding academically, I can’t imagine why anybody would choose SLU.

When he graduated, he went to Ave Maria School of Law. I don’t know what Ave Maria undergraduate is like, but AMSL is most definitely not SSPX-like. Yes, there is a high regard for the TLM among the student body, but they are far from being “super-trads”, let alone schismatic. In visiting him there, I can say that never have I been among a more seriously Catholic student body, nor one better educated in their religion. Mass (Novus Ordo) is said every day there, right in the law school building, and most students attend.

 

[hasikelee]

My son attended SLU for a year and a half, then transferred to Missouri State. He heard attacks on the Church by teachers at SLU, but not at Mo. State. Not all teachers at SLU are like that, and my son had some who were faithful to the Church. But many professors are hostile to the Church, and the atmosphere is extremely “Cafeteria” when it’s not outright hostile to Catholicism. One professor (a secular-type “nun”) even made fun of JPII when his motorcade passed by SLU. It was a relief to my son to attend Mo. State, and not have to listen to anti-Catholic professorial diatribes anymore. Since SLU costs about $20,000.00 more per year than Mo. State, and is less demanding academically, I can’t imagine why anybody would choose SLU.

When he graduated, he went to Ave Maria School of Law. I don’t know what Ave Maria undergraduate is like, but AMSL is most definitely not SSPX-like. Yes, there is a high regard for the TLM among the student body, but they are far from being “super-trads”, let alone schismatic. In visiting him there, I can say that never have I been among a more seriously Catholic student body, nor one better educated in their religion. Mass (Novus Ordo) is said every day there, right in the law school building, and most students attend.

I’m glad to hear that I’m not the only one with an issue over SLU. It’s as if their reputation got too big for the school.

Might seem odd, but could I ask what his LSATs were for admittance to AMSL? I took the LSAT in my senior year of highschool and ended up with a piddly doo score of 56. Just wondering if you or he knew if they accept a wider range of scores into their school.

 

[rosarywarrior]

. But many professors are hostile to the Church, and the atmosphere is extremely “Cafeteria” when it’s not outright hostile to Catholicism. .

I have found this statement to be true among many colleges, Catholic included. There are many courses given, where the Church is attacked repeatedly: sociology, psychology, gender studies, and even such courses as Native American History. I have heard and seen professors make jokes in class or blame the Church for many of the ills within these studies without ever showing any of the good or true teachings of the Church.

Many students do not have the nerve, guts or full knowledge to stand up and defend the Church in a class full of their peers who are laughing and mocking the Church along with the professors.

I know of several students who went to “Catholic” Universities as well educated catholics but after 4 years of “relativism” and extreme liberalism day in and day out have fallen into the pit…blaming their parents for believing in something they can’t see. I dunno, Jesus was right…“Do not weep for me, weep rather for yourselves and for your children…” Lord help us!!

 

[BryPGuy89]

Well if the teachers are a problem, then let us catholics all become professors. There is such a shortage on teachers out there, so catholic colleges too have to drop standars for teachers and higher less desirable ones just like the rest.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Well if the teachers are a problem, then let us catholics all become professors. There is such a shortage on teachers out there, so catholic colleges too have to drop standars for teachers and higher less desirable ones just like the rest.

Comparing some of the professors now and the ones I had when I was in college, lo, these many years ago, I agree the standards have fallen off. But I don’t think that’s so much the problem as it is the way colleges are run. Faculty have a lot to say about who teaches what; who gets to be a full professor; who gets tenure; who gets to be the head of departments, etc. They even influence who the administration is.

Look at Harvard this past year, where the faculty drove out Lawrence Summers, the President of the University, because he suggested that they might research the possibility men might have more math aptitude than women. He was looking to try to rectify the lower numbers of women engineers at Harvard, but no, that was politically incorrect, so they ran him off.

The nuttier the faculty is, then, the nuttier the whole place becomes, in a kind of downward spiral. When you get a substantial percentage of faculty members in a “Catholic” school, who are hostile to the Church, they deselect everybody but people just like themselves, and there isn’t a whole lot anybody can do about it except just not go there, contribute or send their children there.

I went to SLU myself, as did my wife, long ago. We assumed it was about the same when my son chose to go there. But we (and he) got a very unpleasant surprise. This sounds terrible, but having researched all of this (rather late in the game, unfortunately) it seems to me there are maybe 10 Catholic colleges worth the effort and sacrifice it takes to send a child there. (They are extremely expensive) Could be more, but I don’t know where they are, and am dubious as to whether more than 10 truly Catholic colleges exist anymore.

It is my impression that Notre Dame is currently conflicted. Some are trying to bring it back to a truly Catholic identity. But there’s a lot of rot. The fact that Richard McBrien is a well-regarded faculty member there makes me very skeptical indeed.

 

[StMarkEofE]

When one of my high school girlfriends went off to college at Notre Dame, I was shocked at the things they were doing there. And, that was in 1984. This is not a new phenomenon.

However, it is also not a universal phenomenon. There are many good, solid Catholic colleges: Ave Maria, Steubenville, Thomas Aquinas, Christendom to name a few.

As to why bishops “allow” it, they do not. Many of the colleges are run by orders of priest, which technically are semi-autonomous from the diocesan bishop. There is only a certain amount of pressue the bishop can bring to bear. There is more now, thanks to some of the mandates of JPII regarding Catholic college identity. Some have even been stripped of the use of “Catholic”.

What a sorry state of affairs here. A Catholic family fully expecting to send their children to a Catholic college and have no idea that secularism has taken hold of some of our most prestigious Roman Catholic institutions of higher learning.

A sad day for education.

 

[HoppityRedux]

It might be instructive to look at the history of universities. Many were founded and run by religious organizations of one stripe or another. But, over time, they gradually evolved into secular institutions with little or no connection to the religion from which they came. Harvard is the classic American exampe, and the Unversity of Paris is the classic European exmple. There are many more.

I wonder if the nature of the university is to follow such a path? If so, the Catholic universities may simply be in a natural growth stage as they move from one mode to another. Take a look at the corporate organization of the Catholc universities in question. I think many people will be surprised at what they find.

 

[RyanL]

It is my impression that Notre Dame is currently conflicted. Some are trying to bring it back to a truly Catholic identity. But there’s a lot of rot. The fact that Richard McBrien is a well-regarded faculty member there makes me very skeptical indeed.

Well regarded? Depends on who you ask.

Conflicted? Perhaps. Our new president (Fr. Jenkins) is trying to increase the number of Catholic faculty, so that’s a start, although he certainly didn’t take a hard line on the VM last year. Moreover, the '60s/'70s liberals are still alive (and tenured), so there’s not a lot to be done before their Judgment. Additionally, they haven’t exactly been idle in the recruiting process over the decades. That said, Peter Kreeft came to lecture last year, as did Cardinal Arinze. Can’t exactly call those guys CINOs.

I would describe the situation as ND being basically a secular school with numerous pockets of orthodoxy. If you seek out a pocket, you’ll have a tremendous Catholic experience (daily mass, adoration, confession several times a week, etc.). If you seek out the secular, you’ll find it rather quickly.

God Bless, and GO IRISH!
RyanL

 

[Ridgerunner]

I would describe the situation as ND being basically a secular school with numerous pockets of orthodoxy. If you seek out a pocket, you’ll have a tremendous Catholic experience (daily mass, adoration, confession several times a week, etc.). If you seek out the secular, you’ll find it rather quickly.

God Bless, and GO IRISH!
RyanL

I fervently hope N.D. achieves a turnaround, and will accept that it’s possible, though exceedingly tough. I certainly would not say the same about some others.

 

[Rach620]

It is my impression that Notre Dame is currently conflicted. Some are trying to bring it back to a truly Catholic identity. But there’s a lot of rot. The fact that Richard McBrien is a well-regarded faculty member there makes me very skeptical indeed.

I just have to say that I laugh a little bit to myself every time I hear that Richard McBrien is such a prominent and well-regarded faculty member here. Aside from jokes and the occasional acknowledgment that “he’s around here somewhere,” I’ve never heard anyone talk about the man or report that they have taken his class. In fact, I’m pretty sure, as a theology major, that the man never teaches. He just releases new and ever-more-heretical editions of “Catholicism.” And racks up those plagiarism accusations!

Totally OT, but have to throw in my favorite comic strip of all time to run in the Observer, ND’s student newspaper, which ran last year:

Student 1: "Man, that Professor McBrien was hit with another plagiarism complaint.
Student 2: “Man, that guy can’t get a break.”
Fr. McBrien [in suit and tie]: "Hello boys, I’m Professor Richard McBrien. I’m here to share a new piece I wrote. It’s entitled “Jurassic Park - Pictures and Fun Stickers from the Movie.”
Student 1: “That’s pretty nuts, man.”
Fr. McBrien: “I just did it for the stickers.”

 

[onceagain]

Well see I’m trying to get into a Catholic “bubble” I guess. I live in the south were there are very few Catholic churches more or less Catholics. I’m the only Catholic in my entire family and I ahd to fight to get there for years, still am actually. I wasn’t completely serious, , about hiding from the other students, but it would make things easier at the time, lol.

Why would you ever want to get into a bubble? You go to college to grow & experience life… not hang out with priests.

Where are you from in NC btw?

 

[lotusblossom]

Well see I’m trying to get into a Catholic “bubble” I guess. I live in the south were there are very few Catholic churches more or less Catholics. I’m the only Catholic in my entire family and I ahd to fight to get there for years, still am actually. I wasn’t completely serious, , about hiding from the other students, but it would make things easier at the time, lol.

I see no problem getting into a Catholic “bubble” for college, so to speak. With that said, you’re never going to find a perfect bubble. There’s always going to be bad stuff happening and people who are not living the Catholic faith.

I went to a Catholic college that was a “bubble” to most people. However, after going to Catholic schools where I had to defend my faith (and I am the ONLY fully practicing Catholic to my knowledge from my grade school class), then public school where most of my friends were at the most devout Protestants (nothing wrong with that, but still not as much in common) or cafeteria Catholics, I was ready for some full-submerging into my faith and people who were like me. I found them, and I LOVED it! Granted, we’re all at different levels, but we’re all striving for the same thing. Daily mass, adoration, dressing modestly, drinking in moderation at the appropriate age, not having to wonder whether or not my theology professors were teaching correct Catholic teaching (although it’s always good to question and not just always accept), living our faith in the workforce - these were all the “popular” thing - we were encouraged by those around us to participate and live these.

I knew my time there was limited and that once I got back home, it was not going to be like that. I realized my time in the “bubble” was never going to be that once I graduated, nor did I want it to be. It did help to reaffirm my faith, gave me way more knowledge about Catholicism and why we do what we do and believe what we believe, and gave me courage to live against the tide of society while not taking myself out of it. I came back and it was lonely at first (even being married to a wonderful Catholic man), but we made some great friends both Catholic and non and are able to speak through our actions better. I learned some valuable lessons about not slamming my faith into other people’s faces through going to this school.

Now, I’m not advocating that EVERYBODY needs to go to a “bubble” or anyone for that matter. But I can understand why this poster wants to, and that it can be a positive experience with the right attitude. One should not seek a “bubble” anywhere b/c they want all like-minded people surrounding them, never having to face “the world.” Also, you can find it in colleges that are not so “Catholic” and even secular. It may be that you just have to look a little harder to find some great friends and/or professors, and you may be exposed more to what this world embraces.
Anyway, God bless your search!

 

[crusader4life]

I go to a “Catholic” college. From my point of view, it’s strongly Christian at best. There are many holy people here, and there’s a good attendance for Sunday masses, but there is still so much missing here. There use to be a pre-sem program here. Now, it’s practically non-existant.

(It’s a reflection of the diocese. One of the main priorities of being more concerned about lawsuites instead of spreading the Faith.)

Still, that doesn’t keep me dwelling on it, I do what I can to help, and look at the positive side. (We had a Vatican flag up during our football game!)