What I don't like about Catholics...as a Catholic.

[adstrinity]

I have yet to see anywhere in this thread, those of us who advocate respect for God, that others should conform or get out. We’re not saying sinners shouldn’t go to church, we’re saying, STOP SINNING IN CHURCH…it’s expounded because you know you’re doing it.

Also, we are advocating, I believe, that the initial list items ARE travesties because we don’t know about them.

Incidentally, I don’t follow everything on that list, but, that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t. It’s comfortable for me NOT to tithe, but, IT ISN’T ABOUT ME!!!

…MEEEEEEEEEEE…

 

[Farsight001]

Oh I hear you out and perfectly understand your position. However, don’t you think at times we cannot ‘sugar-coat’ the issues and have to say it exactly as it is?

Sure - at times. I obviously had some stern words to say here. But to me there are two reasons to be extremely blunt like that. A) Someone is already strong in the faith, should know better, and can take the hit easily, or B) Someone is being really arrogant, in which case taking them down a notch really is the only way to get through to them(and almost impossible too, unfortunately). I’m pretty sure these are the only times in the bible that Jesus was firm/blunt too. But to be blunt like this to those of weak faith or those who are earnest and don’t know any better? Certainly not. One can certainly say it “exactly as it is” while still being gentle and kind instead of firm and blunt. People who are already troubled internally don’t get helped by firm and blunt.

 

[Farsight001]

I get people’s back stories, too.

I’ve had people to brag to me about what they wore and ‘I know some people don’t like it’ or ‘used to be you wouldn’t wear this, but now, you can wear whatever you want’.

These are the comments that I have heard, solicited and unsolicited, telling why they dress the way they do.

The comments, and the attire, give me the opportunity to make the call that their actions are actions I wouldn’t take part in because I see them as DISRESPECTFUL.

How do you get back stories?

Pardon, but I don’t really think those are reasons or excuses. Do you honestly think that people wear certain clothing BECAUSE they know others don’t like it? Or BECAUSE they can? I’m sure I’ve said similar things myself, but they certainly weren’t the reasons why I wore what I did. It sounds to me more like an innocuous comment.

Though if they are the actual reasons those people wear what they do, then there is probably more of an imminent concern than what they’re wearing. I knew a couple guys in college who would go to church just so they could use it to guilt their religious girlfriends into putting out. They’d wear some clothing just to annoy people, but that’s obviously not of imminent concern with them.

As for where I get my back stories - well, as you can probably imagine, I tend to get along better with the people who don’t wear such formal clothing. We hang out. It comes up in conversation.

 

[Farsight001]

Let us be clear about something, as it relates to me (I can’t speak for any one else)

My posts on this topic are in this forum. People who participate in CAF, either because they have questions, they want to share ideas, or what ever their reasoning, they are the demographics that make up this forum.

I have not ever said to anyone anything about wearing sandals. I don’t think I’ve said anything to any one about any other attire (I did ask the sister of a woman if the woman in question had something to cover herself with, but since she didn’t, and I didn’t, I said nothing further).

My comments are in this forum. Not that I run up to any one and say, ‘You can’t come in here like that’.

Let’s make no mistake: I have said to others, ‘did they know they were going to church when they got up this morning?’ - that was at a Protestant church. It was my 97 yo cousin’s funeral, and I saw more club outfits!

This is a forum for people of, hopefully, like minds to share. Where those who may find themselves wondering, is it ok or not, to find answers.

Then if I may suggest - keep in mind that it’s not just the people commenting that read what you say. You have an audience of people not posting. Over the years, probably well more than 1000 people will read your posts, as they will mine. Its kind of like the internet equivalent of making an announcement at church. You are, in essence, unintentionally telling people “You can’t come in here like that”. It’s just that you’re saying it to someone you may never meet who might be half a world away.

 

[Farsight001]

I have yet to see anywhere in this thread, those of us who advocate respect for God, that others should conform or get out. We’re not saying sinners shouldn’t go to church, we’re saying, STOP SINNING IN CHURCH…it’s expounded because you know you’re doing it.

Oh. So those were the 5 extra commandments Mel Brooks dropped in History of the World?

XI - Thou shalt not wear flip flops
XII - Thou shalt not wear blue jeans
XIII - Thou shalt not attend mass if flip flops and blue jeans are all that is available
XIV - Thou shalt keep an extra suit and tie on high ground in case of flood
XV - Thou shalt give up ownership of any expensive car when you hit hard times, lest you give the appearance of wealth and laziness of dress

I don’t recall any of those things being sins. Babies go to church barefoot. Are they sinning too? Or is being barefoot preferable to flip flops?

 

[adstrinity]

Oh. So those were the 5 extra commandments Mel Brooks dropped in History of the World?

XI - Thou shalt not wear flip flops
XII - Thou shalt not wear blue jeans
XIII - Thou shalt not attend mass if flip flops and blue jeans are all that is available
XIV - Thou shalt keep an extra suit and tie on high ground in case of flood
XV - Thou shalt give up ownership of any expensive car when you hit hard times, lest you give the appearance of wealth and laziness of dress

I don’t recall any of those things being sins. Babies go to church barefoot. Are they sinning too? Or is being barefoot preferable to flip flops?

Why does everybody keep adding the not going to church thing if not appropriately dressed? That’s a strawman.

Just dress appropriately and one wont have to be so up in arms.

 

[Farsight001]

Why does everybody keep adding the not going to church thing if not appropriately dressed? That’s a strawman.

People are probably saying it because you said in post 339, and I quote: “Flip-flops and shorts. No. That’s NEVER appropriate. Stop with that. It may be all they have, but, it’s not appropriate in a church in America.” What is that, if not a suggestion that people who only have flipflops and shorts not go to mass at all? You admitted that it might be all some people have. And you said that it is “NEVER” appropriate. Never would mean not even when it’s all they have, which would mean that they shouldn’t go if it’s all they have to wear. So people are probably saying it because you were advocating exactly that. whether your intent or not, it’s what you said.

Just dress appropriately and one wont have to be so up in arms.

Realize that not all people have the capacity to dress to your personal appropriateness standards, and we won’t be so up in arms.

You know…I went to mass a couple months ago in a swimming suit and a t-shirt. It was on a sandbar in the middle of a river. The priest used an overturned canoe for an altar, and we all used our flotation devices for kneelers. What say you about that?

 

[adstrinity]

Oh, for the love of all things Holy & Nixon!

It IS never appropriate to wear these things to church in America. It is ALWAYS inappropriate. One would be inappropriately dressed if one was in shorts and flip-flops. Why would one insult God and one’s dignity like that? Ignorance? Yes. I know I felt out of place once because I wore a dress to Mass on Easter…and this was when I typically wore denim shorts and a t-shirt…because that’s what EVERYbody wore.

How disgusting.

Anyway, it was very inappropriate, but, I kept going.

It was this forum and the Latin Mass that got me to go for Jesus.

It, again, is NEVER appropriate to wear those things at Mass in America. One really should just dress better. It really is that simple.

I never said dressing inappropriately should keep one from Jesus, I just hope that one would, after one has been told, to respect Jesus and the dignity He gave to that individual more.

Farsight001, if you give me the name of that priest and the location, I will write to the Bishop of your diocese to make sure that doesn’t EVER EVER EVER BLOODY HAPPEN AGAIN myself!!! Is your priest a communist? A Freemason?!!! AN ATHIEST?!!! What would make him treat JESUS like that?!

Der Voghormia
Christe Eleison
Dominus Misericordia

 

[Farsight001]

Oh, for the love of all things Holy & Nixon!

It IS never appropriate to wear these things to church in America. It is ALWAYS inappropriate. One would be inappropriately dressed if one was in shorts and flip-flops. Why would one insult God and one’s dignity like that? Ignorance? Yes. I know I felt out of place once because I wore a dress to Mass on Easter…and this was when I typically wore denim shorts and a t-shirt…because that’s what EVERYbody wore.

Bull. You call it inappropriate. By what justification do you call it this? You give no reason. No bible verse. No phrase from the GIRM. No Church teaching. You call it inappropriate because YOU think it inappropriate, not for any valid reason at all. You have set yourself up as a pope like the protestants do, which would explain why you sound so much like a Sedevacantist. Instead of backing up what you say with something official, you reiterate the mentality that those who cannot dress nicely enough should not be allowed to attend mass. And like I already said, that is a prosperity gospel, and that is heresy. How disgusting indeed.

It was this forum and the Latin Mass that got me to go for Jesus.

And it was GIRM violating guitar music at mass that did it for me. And I am now against guitar music at mass, even though it is what led me to God in the first place. Just because it brought you to God doesn’t mean it’s the only right way there is.

It, again, is NEVER appropriate to wear those things at Mass in America. One really should just dress better. It really is that simple.

It’s simple to you, who has obviously never had something go disastrously wrong in their sheltered life. Here in the real world, it ain’t that easy, and it certainly isn’t possible.

I never said dressing inappropriately should keep one from Jesus

You did so say this. You said that they shouldn’t be going to mass if they can’t dress “appropriately”. And if they can’t go to mass, they can’t receive the Eucharist. No Jesus. That’s from YOUR lips (err…fingers). Not directly said no, but it is the logical and necessary conclusion of what you said.

Farsight001, if you give me the name of that priest and the location, I will write to the Bishop of your diocese to make sure that doesn’t EVER EVER EVER BLOODY HAPPEN AGAIN myself!!! Is your priest a communist? A Freemason?!!! AN ATHIEST?!!! What would make him treat JESUS like that?!

He treated Jesus with all available honor and respect, and dare I say a fair bit more than you are doing right now. (“whatsoever you do to the least of my children, you do to me”) He did what he could with the circumstances given and he did so with the personal backing of the rather (internationally) famous and very orthodox bishop, who I will not name so you cannot start a bleep-storm. I am not stupid.

This is what you don’t seem to understand. some people just have less to work with than you. If anything, that makes them more worthy and more respectful towards Christ instead of less, because with less available, they muscle through and try their best anyway, instead of giving up. What do you expect him to do? Pack a cathedral with him? Not say mass at all, depriving the congregation present of their obligation to mass?

I notice you have a penchant for accusations, but when it comes to someone asking questions, you ignore them. so I will say this - answer my questions. REAL answers, not dismissals, in your next reply, or I will consider you to have conceded to me.

 

[adstrinity]

Hmmmm…it’s not my standards people should be dressing up for, it’s God’s.

Jesus gave a parable about throwing one out who did not show up to the Wedding Banquet in appropriate attire. Matthew 22:1-15. When we go to see Jesus, we give Him our best, or, should I quip, and, I forgot where I first heard this, We give God what’s right, not what’s left.

One is there FOR GOD. Not one’s self, not others, GOD. One dresses in a respectful fashion, in the manner suitable for one’s gender, covering legs (in America), not tight clothing, FOR GOD.

Again, come to Mass, always. Dress appropriately FOR GOD. I never said don’t go to Mass. Just do better.

If the bishop approved, then I want to know which diocese to avoid. That is…so…contemptable. I cannot believe Jesus was disrespected like that, and don’t fool yourself, Christ was being mocked again like He was in His Passion.

It truly disturbs Catholics who want the best for Jesus and His Church and all and YOU that you do not see what is wrong with this.

 

[Farsight001]

Hmmmm…it’s not my standards people should be dressing up for, it’s God’s.

Jesus gave a parable about throwing one out who did not show up to the Wedding Banquet in appropriate attire. Matthew 22:1-15. When we go to see Jesus, we give Him our best, or, should I quip, and, I forgot where I first heard this, We give God what’s right, not what’s left.

One is there FOR GOD. Not one’s self, not others, GOD. One dresses in a respectful fashion, in the manner suitable for one’s gender, covering legs (in America), not tight clothing, FOR GOD.

Again, come to Mass, always. Dress appropriately FOR GOD. I never said don’t go to Mass. Just do better.

If the bishop approved, then I want to know which diocese to avoid. That is…so…contemptable. I cannot believe Jesus was disrespected like that, and don’t fool yourself, Christ was being mocked again like He was in His Passion.

It truly disturbs Catholics who want the best for Jesus and His Church and all and YOU that you do not see what is wrong with this.

Thank you for conceding. I’m glad we could come to an agreement on this and you could finally see the message I was trying to convey. I hope you didn’t mistake my ultimatum for a bluff.

 

[JHow]

…And I am now against guitar music at mass, even though it is what led me to God in the first place.

Are you serious? I’m not laughing at you - I’m just seeking confirmation of your story here. You kind of dropped this in with a lot of other stuff: Guitar music at mass is what lead you to God? But now you don’t like it? Because of the GIRM? Would you be willing to share a little more of your story here?

From my side, I will tell you, I love guitars, but don’t like them at mass (because I think the music is usually bad), but I see possibilities that guitar music could be beautiful in worship (theoretically, and I heard it a few times). I have no idea what the GIRM says, because I am layman, not involved in music ministry or decisions about what gets played or how. I just show to mass every week and grunt when the music is bad.

 

[Farsight001]

Are you serious? I’m not laughing at you - I’m just seeking confirmation of your story here. You kind of dropped this in with a lot of other stuff: Guitar music at mass is what lead you to God? But now you don’t like it? Because of the GIRM? Would you be willing to share a little more of your story here?

From my side, I will tell you, I love guitars, but don’t like them at mass (because I think the music is usually bad), but I see possibilities that guitar music could be beautiful in worship (theoretically, and I heard it a few times). I have no idea what the GIRM says, because I am layman, not involved in music ministry or decisions about what gets played or how. I just show to mass every week and grunt when the music is bad.

Yeah. I guess this is a bit off topic too, so lets not continue this conversation too far.

I was a non-believer. One of those atheists who didn’t want to believe in God because I felt my life had been carp (someone tell me if that’s a censor bypass) and I didn’t feel like I deserved it. Then one Sunday sophomore year of college, I went to mass out of sheer boredom. It was 10 pm mass in a little chapel in one of the dorms. The only reason there was room for any musical instruments is because they took a pew out. They played guitar music, including a beautiful instrumental (no singing) version of a Switchfoot song (dare you to move, I think). Anyway, I had never heard guitar music in mass before, and really, I had never really heard guitar music played solo before either. It was astounding to me. I just loved the music so much that I went back the next night and the next night. When Thursday rolled around (there was 10 pm mass Sunday through Thursday), I was going to church for God instead of for the music. (And I got a guitar a few months later too)

It’s not that I don’t like it at mass. I love it. I can’t help but love it since it helped bring me back to God. But I try to be an obedient Catholic and I know that the GIRM says that the organ or stringed instruments with a bow are what we are supposed to use and that if none of those are available then no instrument is, I think the wording is, “preferred”. In which case, guitar music would not be forbidden, but just discouraged by the GIRM.

 

[adstrinity]

Thank you for conceding. I’m glad we could come to an agreement on this and you could finally see the message I was trying to convey. I hope you didn’t mistake my ultimatum for a bluff.

Hmmm, that is interesting. I gave you proof, and you don’t see it. No wonder you don’t see a problem with not dressing for Jesus and seeing Him abused outside of church.

You answered a LOT of questions!

You’re in my prayers!

 

[Farsight001]

Hmmm, that is interesting. I gave you proof, and you don’t see it. No wonder you don’t see a problem with not dressing for Jesus and seeing Him abused outside of church.

You answered a LOT of questions!

You’re in my prayers!

You really don’t have to concede more than once. I got it the first time. thanks.

 

[Apryl]

You really don’t have to concede more than once. I got it the first time. thanks.

Farsight001

Less than 100 posts so far.

And how many of them on this thread?

Let us all continue to pray for Farsight001 and that his/her heart may be healed of what ever is making him/her want to cause this type of unrest.

 

[Farsight001]

Farsight001

Less than 100 posts so far.

And how many of them on this thread?

Let us all continue to pray for Farsight001 and that his/her heart may be healed of what ever is making him/her want to cause this type of unrest.

Yeah…I don’t want to cause unrest. The guy is essentially preaching a prosperity gospel. As a Catholic, I (WE, actually) are obligated to speak out against it.

 

[Todd520]

Do you honestly think that people wear certain clothing BECAUSE they know others don’t like it? Or BECAUSE they can?

I knew a couple guys in college who would go to church just so they could use it to guilt their religious girlfriends into putting out. They’d wear some clothing just to annoy people, but that’s obviously not of imminent concern with them.

I love it when people answer their own questions.
Down dressing is a very common way of showing individuality or rebellion ‘against the system’ by regular Mass goers,
by people much more virtuous people than your college friends.

 

[Farsight001]

I love it when people answer their own questions.
Down dressing is a very common way of showing individuality or rebellion ‘against the system’ by regular Mass goers,
by people much more virtuous people than your college friends.

Those guys were in no way my friends. I knew them. I had to interact with them because it was a small college. But I still wanted nothing to do with them. Some of the (nicely dressed) females they were trying to take advantage of were the ones who were my friends.

 

[adstrinity]

Farsight001

Less than 100 posts so far.

And how many of them on this thread?

Let us all continue to pray for Farsight001 and that his/her heart may be healed of what ever is making him/her want to cause this type of unrest.

I began praying for this person last night, BUT, I submit we should do a novena, post a notice in the prayer folder, for anybody who might want to join. A Rosary Novena.

Anyway, back to topic, like the Golden Rule, I think the original post can be summed up in one statement with two parts:

What I don’t like about Catholics…as a Catholic:
–Catholics who show God disrespect in His house, in all forms.
–Catholics who wish to remain in their ignorance and pride.

I think that about sums it up.