What I should know about SSPX, the Tridentine Rite, etc

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Hey all! I’m currently 19 and have been a Catholic my whole life. However, I have only recently learned about the sects and societies who seriously reject VII theology and such.

I don’t want to start any kind of debate, but I just want to know the key points and facts of the traditionalist movement, the major players (SSPX, Sedevacantist, etc), the main beliefs and the main differences between the VII Church and the Church before it.

Thanks!
 
There are 400,000 Catholic priests and over a billion Catholics.

There are 500 SSPX and and another about 200 priest outside of the full communion with Rome, each with an estimated 200-400 adherents, who attend their Masses

There are world wide over 1000 priests in full communion with Rome (FSSP, Institute of Christ, small organizations, diocesan priests) who together with the pope want to preserve the traditional form of the Liturgy. Some of these priest offers only the traditional form of the Mass, others offer both forms

Vatican II was the XXI ecumenical council, which defined 3 dogmatic , one pastoral constitutions , 9 decrees and three declarations, in order to prepare the world to the enormous changes in the life. We, even with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, are imperfect human beings, the council was not able to change the events, which move the world toward the secularization.

Some decisions of the Council were abused by the enemies of the Church.

Archbishop Lefevbre, the that time leader of the opposition signed all the documents of the Council, except the Dignitatis Humanae declaration, which basic teaching is that everyone has the right to his religious feelings / ideas. The traditionalist who reject the XXI Ecumenical council most vehemently want to reverse this document.
 
MillTownCath said:
Hey all! I’m currently 19 and have been a Catholic my whole life. However, I have only recently learned about the sects and societies who seriously reject VII theology and such.

I don’t want to start any kind of debate, but I just want to know the key points and facts of the traditionalist movement, the major players (SSPX, Sedevacantist, etc), the main beliefs and the main differences between the VII Church and the Church before it.

Thanks!
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In general traditional Catholics try to practice the faith as it was practiced before Vatican II in the sense that they hold firmly to traditional Catholic doctrine and to traditional Catholic liturgy.

There are really only two “major players” in the traditionalist movement – the SSPX on the one hand, and the “Ecclesia Dei” groups on the other, the most prominent of which is the FSSP, which split off from the SSPX in 1988. The sedevacantists are a tiny minority and, for the most part, irrelevant.

The book “An Open Letter to Confused Catholics” by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, lays out a lot of the main objections traditional Catholics have to the post-Vatican II innovations. Here’s the link:

sspxasia.com/Documents/Archbishop-Lefebvre/OpenLetterToConfusedCatholics/index.htm

A crash course on the SSPX’s opinion on things is their FAQ page:

sspx.org/sspxfaqs.htm

However, with the FAQs you have to be aware that the responses are brief and don’t always fully explain things. For example, they might say “Communion in the hand is sacrilegious” without explaining why they believe that to be true. So more digging is required to get the background of some of their FAQ answers.
 
MillTownCath said:
Hey all! I’m currently 19 and have been a Catholic my whole life. However, I have only recently learned about the sects and societies who seriously reject VII theology and such.

I don’t want to start any kind of debate, but I just want to know the key points and facts of the traditionalist movement, the major players (SSPX, Sedevacantist, etc), the main beliefs and the main differences between the VII Church and the Church before it.

Thanks!
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Good to see that u recognize that there is a difference between the faith handed down through the ages and that of the new beliefs. You may find some sspx media on various sites but their main US link is sspx.org/
 
Thanks for the info! From those who would know, is there a lot of "hatred’ or “anger” at the Novus Ordor it its followers? I have a friend who is a part of the SSPX but her and her family are certainly not full of hate. However, from what I can see on many articles and websites such as “Novus Ordo watch” there is a significant number of people out there who are extremely hateful and use hateful language to describe the Church and its Popes who follow Vatican II.

Again, lets please try to not argue, just give me the facts or your experiences. Thanks! 🙂
 
Watch out for the words “hate” and “hateful”. The world defines anything that opposes or refutes your ideas as hateful. Traditionalists/SSPX are not hateful. They are extremely fearful of the errors caused not necessarily by VII but that exist in the church afterwards and are willing to speak their mind. Sure, they could use nicer language, but nice and politically correct language is what caused many of the liturgical errors after VII, not the documents themselves. The language they use reflects the perceived gravity of the matter.

That being said, I do not attend SSPX Masses. I believe they are largely misunderstood/skewed by non-trad Catholics.
 
Are Catholics allowed to visit SSPX parishes and is their communion valid? Can you fulfill your Sunday obligation by attending an SSPX mass?
 
TrueLight said:
Are Catholics allowed to visit SSPX parishes and is their communion valid? Can you fulfill your Sunday obligation by attending an SSPX mass?
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Depends on the intention.

To attend for the reverent Mass yes, to attend for the opposition of Rome or the Council no.

The Mass is valid consequently communion is valid; Confession or witnessing a marriage is probably invalid, better to avoid.
 
MillTownCath said:
Thanks for the info! From those who would know, is there a lot of "hatred’ or “anger” at the Novus Ordor it its followers? I have a friend who is a part of the SSPX but her and her family are certainly not full of hate. However, from what I can see on many articles and websites such as “Novus Ordo watch” there is a significant number of people out there who are extremely hateful and use hateful language to describe the Church and its Popes who follow Vatican II.
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I suggest you just ignore those sort of websites and instead read things like the “Open Letter to Confused Catholics” I linked you to, or pretty much anything by Michael Davies, or “Iota Unum” by Romano Amerio. Some stuff is online. Others is in book form. Angelus Press & Tan Books are good sources.

angeluspress.org/
tanbooks.com/

You could even just go talk to a traditional priest and ask questions.
 
laszlo said:
Depends on the intention.

To attend for the reverent Mass yes, to attend for the opposition of Rome or the Council no.

The Mass is valid consequently communion is valid; Confession or witnessing a marriage is probably invalid, better to avoid.
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I’m assuming the best intentions.

For example, I would visit to see if it is any different than any EF mass I’ve attended. Also, I have heard that modesty is more strictly enforced, so I’d like to observe that as well.
 
TrueLight said:
Are Catholics allowed to visit SSPX parishes and is their communion valid? Can you fulfill your Sunday obligation by attending an SSPX mass?
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  1. For the right reasons, yes.
  2. Yes
  3. Yes
Both SSPX priests and the people who attend their chapels are Catholics. The main problem with the SSPX is lack of canonical standing. That is - they are “unapproved” and their priests are suspended and have no faculties. This is all legal stuff that just says they aren’t operating with the regular legal structures of the Church. The lack of faculties means that their confessions and weddings may be invalid, but otherwise, their sacraments are fully valid.

Of course, the SSPX says that their suppression was illegal and therefore void.

Even if you don’t go to an SSPX chapel, don’t be afraid to listen to sermons and catechesis online. They are almost always excellent. There is a Youtube user called “oblationem” who posts a lot of good sermons online from the SSPX chapel in Veneta Oregon.
 
TrueLight said:
I’m assuming the best intentions.

For example, I would visit to see if it is any different than any EF mass I’ve attended. Also, I have heard that modesty is more strictly enforced, so I’d like to observe that as well.
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The Mass should be identical. Their dress codes vary from place to place. Check out this video from the largest SSPX church in the world – St. Nicholas du Chardonnet in Paris, France.

youtube.com/user/protradition#p/u/13/xK8jPgJeGuA
 
wsxyz said:
The Mass should be identical. Their dress codes vary from place to place. Check out this video from the largest SSPX church in the world – St. Nicholas du Chardonnet in Paris, France.

youtube.com/user/protradition#p/u/13/xK8jPgJeGuA
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Oh is that SSPX? I saw that mass about 2 months ago before I attended my first mass ever, which ended up being a TLM. I love how the people sing. That’s what drew me to the Extraordinary form. 👍
 
TrueLight said:
I’m assuming the best intentions.

For example, I would visit to see if it is any different than any EF mass I’ve attended. Also, I have heard that modesty is more strictly enforced, so I’d like to observe that as well.
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There is no enforcement of dress code. There is occasional admonition against immodesty from the pulpit and parish bulletin. That is enough. Visitors are treated with respect and understanding, knowing they don’t necessarily have our standards. Chapel veils are available though not required for visiting ladies who want to blend with the rest of the parish. Most of us seem to want to wear our best, nobody has to make us.
 
So, as a lifelong Novus Ordo Catholic, what reasons would I find the Tridentine Rite appealing?
 
MillTownCath said:
So, as a lifelong Novus Ordo Catholic, what reasons would I find the Tridentine Rite appealing?
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Right off the bat you might find it has some aesthetic appeal. After you spend some time with it, and have read the prayers, and learned about some of the rubrics, you will see that the traditional Mass is completely oriented to worship of God and to offering the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, in a way that is not present, or is obscured in the new Mass.

The traditional Mass expresses the greatest respect for the Blessed Sacrament, consciousness of our sinfulness and need for redemption, and expresses clearly what is happening at Holy Mass.
 
MillTownCath said:
So, as a lifelong Novus Ordo Catholic, what reasons would I find the Tridentine Rite appealing?
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Greater Reverence
A unifying language (Latin)
No innovations
The keeps with Catholic tradition
teachings from the saints instead of whats happening in sports
Readings from that do not come from a politically correct bible.
Women are not on the altar showing their wares to the congregation

just off the top of my head
 
I think it depends on the “style” of NO liturgy you are accustomed to, and it varies from person to person. Aside the traditional, liturgical abuse, and legalistic reasons, I found the silence and absence of praise and worship (and other bad music) and “actors” as Lectors very appealing. There is much time for prayer, and I leave time and time again with great peace. The language was not an issue for me, so I’m not sure how you might react if you do not know Latin.
 
Hi. I strongly suggest for you to check out the following website and youtube channel which should answer most if not all of your questions on this topic. Their section on the SSPX can be found on the main webpage, under the “Traditional Catholic Issues and Groups” section.

mostholyfamilymonastery.com/ youtube.com/user/mhfm1
 
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