What I was shocked to learn about "Social Justice" today from the pulpit

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I actually found nothing wrong with what the priest preached.
You might want to review authentic Catholic teaching on Social Justice. There are **many **things wrong with what was reported. You may agree with the priest but that doesn’t mean that this is actual Church teaching. (Hint: it isn’t)
 
You might want to review authentic Catholic teaching on Social Justice. There are **many **things wrong with what was reported. You may agree with the priest but that doesn’t mean that this is actual Church teaching. (Hint: it isn’t)
And you may not agree, yet it make you no more right.🤷
 
That’s pretty much in line with the social justice teaching I’ve heard.

I’m left with two choices: they’re wrong or my beliefs are really in conflict with church teaching. The more I hear about it, the more I start to think I must somehow figure out a way to align my thoughts and beliefs with what the church teaches.
👍 very insightful…bravo.
 
That homily wouldn’t have raised many eyebrows here in the UK, and I have heard priests here speak in a similar tone about social justice.
 
You should re-read 3 and 4 again. The problems in 3 are real and serious, but calling it all “intentional” is going too far. In 4 he’s essentially giving a dispensation to drunkenness.
Of course 3 is intentional, go read up on why the drug laws were created in the first place…it was the political leaders at the time attempt to keep minorities out of certain parts of the city. Racism was the sole reason for the drug laws, and that continues to this day.

This was actually confirmed again recently too by an ex-aid, remember the debate it sparked?
 
I like my church for a lot of reasons, one is, they almost universally leave the politics out.
We have a very diverse congregation. Today we had a ‘visiting’ (and retired) priest who has never been there before. He entered with a scowl on his face. I thought “Never judge a book by it’s cover, but that is odd”. After today’s scripture readings he took the pulpit to deliver the homily.
This is what I learned …
  1. The Gospel of Luke is “all about social justice”.
  2. Today’s Gospel reading of LK 7:11-17 is all about social justice. Christ did not raise the man for pity for the deceased or moved by the procession of friends and family but He raised the man because otherwise his mother (widow) wouldn’t have been allowed to own property since men were only allowed to own property and therefore he did it for ‘social justice’.
  3. In the United States we are plagued with the sins of social injustices. Pay inequities, and minority prison populations. They are not ‘coincidences but intentional’.
  4. You SHOULD give a homeless person money EVEN IF you know they will use it to buy alcohol because it will “give them some relief from the reality they are living in.” And finally and most surprisingly…
  5. ISIS and all terrorism around the world is the result of … “social injustice”. It has nothing, apparently, at all, to do with a perverted ‘religion’ or the manifestation of actual evil on earth. I guess just bad luck for those targeted Christians who are getting slaughtered in unspeakable ways.
    He felt compelled to preach yet again at the conclusion of mass about the “social injustices” in this country (abortion didn’t make his list).
    It is the first time in my life (cradle Catholic) I almost walked out of mass.
    I’ve intentionally saved all the scriptural retorts to the above and any sarcasm (couldn’t help myself on #5, sorry) or highlighting of my disgust, as I wanted it to be a direct recount of what was communicated without any editorializing.
    I would be very interested in any comments by those who find the the content of the above sermon defensible.
I disagree with every one of them!! No. 4, I would only offer to buy them a meal, I would even go get one and bring it to them. NO money!. God Bless, Memaw
 
That’s really all I needed to hear to predict the rest. In most dioceses, there is a stable of Leftist dinosaurs that can’t be trusted with a parish, so they occasionally sub and it’s like someone spiked the holy water with topical LSD and it’s 1973 again. One benefit of the visit from one of the moldy oldies however is that you really appreciate your pastor when he returns.
A family friend is an “old” retired priest. He’s in his 80s I suppose (gave me my first communion). I’m very confident he’d hold polar opposite views of what I heard, particularly on point 5. Given my recent milestone of stealing oxygen for half a century, I perhaps am reaching “dinosaur” status myself. 😉
Our diocese is the same way. When we have an out-of-diocese visitor, it is usually a refreshing change and on-point. But the ones that are floating in the diocese or who have been given “special assignments” rather than pastoral posts are almost always way out there.

The worst was a guy from prison ministry who told us he was offended by our parish pro-life group (It was October and we had a display). He said that until we were willing to invite a death row convict to come and live in our homes we were not really pro-life. :mad: A few of the Knights walked out. (just from the homily, not the whole Mass)

.:rotfl: I’ll have to remember that one.
Interestingly, this particular priest’s “job” since retiring is prison ministry. I’m not sure why the protection of INNOCENT life by government is such a difficult concept.
You should re-read 3 and 4 again. The problems in 3 are real and serious, but calling it all “intentional” is going too far. In 4 he’s essentially giving a dispensation to drunkenness.

As usual it’s smuggling in subtle lies among truth. You can almost smell the smoke: there’s no such thing as sin. It’s all just a big misunderstanding.
That is my biggest issue, giving excuses and essentially passive acceptance of sin. While we have an all forgiving God, I believe “Go and sin no more” is hardly pretending it doesn’t exist nor giving it justification much less actually ENABLING it.
Yes, those points you listed sound like leftist propaganda to me. Number 3 is a real problem, but calling it intentional is out of line. For #4, in this situation, I would offer to give food, drink, clothing, etc. Though sometimes I have known homeless people to not accept anything but money. If they won’t take it, you’ve tried your best, and move on. Number 5 is just making excuses for terrorism and sin.

Just start hoping that your usual priest will be back next week! 😃
Our previous priest was very clear to NEVER give money to people begging in the parking lot. We (the church) have very clear and readily available avenues for them to receive help if needed.
I hate it when people try to make everything about the Gospels a social justice message and I certainly don’t agree with everything that the priest said, especially #4. But, he does does make some valid points. I even have to agree with his point on ISIS, based on what little you told us. It seems logical to me that years of warfare and occupation by the West just might cause people to push back very violently. I’m not saying it’s right; I’m just saying that it makes sense.
There is NO justification for the atrocities being perpetuated today in the name of Islam over there. My grandparents were Syrian immigrants. That was the very early 1900s. It has nothing to do with “occupation by the West”.
4.) I don’t think the priest is wrong here. For one, you don’t know what he’s going to do with the money and are making assumptions that may or may not be true. Of course, you could offer to take him to McDonald’s and buy him food, and he might reject… But that doesn’t mean he rejects the offer because he plans to buy wine with your money. Maybe that’s a step to far for his integrity and self-worth, since you don’t trust him enough. And even if he does buy booze, you gave him money out of love.

5.) When the IRA committed acts of violence, they weren’t twirling their mustaches and launching maniacally over body counts. They were attacking what they believed to be an oppressive regime. I don’t imagine its all that different for Islamic terror cells.

Nothing justifies their actions, but we don’t live in a comic book. People often believe that their evil is justified, because they feel they are fighting a greater evil. It’s easy to dismiss how they feel, because our children aren’t dying in drone strikes… But for a moment, think back how you felt in 9/11. War and violence tend to be a vicious cycle but it isn’t going to end until we admit that we have a hand in it.

I don’t want to sound uncharitable, but between reactions to this and reactions to some of the things Pope Francis says, I sometimes can’t feel that people have more affiliation with their political party than their faith. The compliance of American Catholics to a lot of social injustices, contrary to what the Church actually teaches are why I left my religion for ten years. And its the papacy of Pope Francis, who is speaking more boldly on the importance of justice and compassion, that made me return to the religion that I loved.
On point 4, as I mentioned, he said “EVEN IF YOU KNOW HE’S GOING TO BUY ALCOHOL” so no mystery is involved in what he was saying. He stated allowing the person to get drunk would give him some “relief”. It is clearly unbiblical.
You are not being ‘uncharitable’, you are speaking your mind. I don’t hold any “affiliation with a political party” (particularly now). Holding to the beliefs of a political party is hardly the key to salvation. Neither is a priest who holds to his.
 
Yes. We must…However, it seems like few here see it…and its not just Luke, or just the gospel, social justice is the theme of salvation history.

Its a shame people don’t get it. Those who see it as a political statement are ignoring it, or not getting it. Either way, invincible ignorance seems to be their saving grace.
“Ignorance” aside :rolleyes: it is truly a shame that the term “social justice”, like many, has been hijacked by those seeking more power in the political process.
And is it social justice to help others not out of compassion and love for others but only for the sake of social justice?
Indeed.
Are you American first, or Catholic first? What is more important? Your Catholic religion, or your politically conservative beliefs? I am not asking any of this to be uncharitable, or condescending, but the Catholic Church has always called for social justice.

The only difference now is you have a Pope who is calling louder, and some clergy are responding in term.

Many of the things you’re speaking are injustices, certainly, but here’s the thing… There’s two sides to every argument. Things are seldom black and white as much as they are black and black.

Would we have illegals here in the first place, if their nations could provide for them, and their economies weren’t often ruined because of first world exploitations? Would ISIS even exist, if not for Western manipulation of Middle Eastern politics? Would those hospitals that closed because people couldn’t pay their ER bills, if healthcare was actually affordable or even provided by the state?

Maybe when you look at the world, you see good and evil. But I just see a fallen world, with no clear heroes and villains, but a world that I believe we can make better with love and compassion. But in order to do that, we need to break down the barriers around our own hearts, and far to often those barriers are political ideologies.
I’m personally neither. I’m Christian first. As such, while it is possible to forgive, I’m not inclined to make excuses for sin or operate under the false hope that we can hug it out all the time. I firmly believe Mexico and it’s peoples are WORSE off thanks to our porous border that helps perpetuate the evils and atrocities that exist there.
I see a world with a hero and a villain. Jesus and Satan.
Amen
You might want to review authentic Catholic teaching on Social Justice. There are **many **things wrong with what was reported. You may agree with the priest but that doesn’t mean that this is actual Church teaching. (Hint: it isn’t)
I emailed our regular priest. Without going into details on a public forum… let’s just say he was VERY understanding and I’m 100% confident there will not be a recurrence. I’ll have a meeting with our parochial vicar soon (regular priest is heading out on vacation today).
 
I like my church for a lot of reasons, one is, they almost universally leave the politics out.
We have a very diverse congregation. Today we had a ‘visiting’ (and retired) priest who has never been there before. He entered with a scowl on his face. I thought “Never judge a book by it’s cover, but that is odd”. After today’s scripture readings he took the pulpit to deliver the homily.
This is what I learned …
  1. The Gospel of Luke is “all about social justice”.
  2. Today’s Gospel reading of LK 7:11-17 is all about social justice. Christ did not raise the man for pity for the deceased or moved by the procession of friends and family but He raised the man because otherwise his mother (widow) wouldn’t have been allowed to own property since men were only allowed to own property and therefore he did it for ‘social justice’.
  3. In the United States we are plagued with the sins of social injustices. Pay inequities, and minority prison populations. They are not ‘coincidences but intentional’.
  4. You SHOULD give a homeless person money EVEN IF you know they will use it to buy alcohol because it will “give them some relief from the reality they are living in.” And finally and most surprisingly…
  5. ISIS and all terrorism around the world is the result of … “social injustice”. It has nothing, apparently, at all, to do with a perverted ‘religion’ or the manifestation of actual evil on earth. I guess just bad luck for those targeted Christians who are getting slaughtered in unspeakable ways.
    He felt compelled to preach yet again at the conclusion of mass about the “social injustices” in this country (abortion didn’t make his list).
    It is the first time in my life (cradle Catholic) I almost walked out of mass.
    I’ve intentionally saved all the scriptural retorts to the above and any sarcasm (couldn’t help myself on #5, sorry) or highlighting of my disgust, as I wanted it to be a direct recount of what was communicated without any editorializing.
    I would be very interested in any comments by those who find the the content of the above sermon defensible.
I really feel it is unfair to judge this priest based on your memory of what he said. It would be a lot more fair if his homily were online or somehow documented in an unbiased way so he could tell his side of the story. As it is we have to trust that you are faithfully representing what he said.
 
I really feel it is unfair to judge this priest based on your memory of what he said. It would be a lot more fair if his homily were online or somehow documented in an unbiased way so he could tell his side of the story. As it is we have to trust that you are faithfully representing what he said.
Ok… pretend it’s a ‘theoretical conversation’ if that helps alleviate any trust issues.
 
I said pretend it’s theoretical if that will help alleviate your trust issues and help you participate in the conversation. .
I intentionally did NOT editorialize my OP. Would you like me to PM you his name and you can call him yourself? The fact you are apparently struggling with believing my account is interesting. And actually encouraging… to me anyway. 🙂
 
Is it social justice when big corporations are granted tax breaks to move overseas, costing Americans their jobs? Is it social justice when hundreds of thousands of Americans are denied the means of self-defense against criminals in their midst? Is it social justice when unborn babies are deliberately killed? Is it social justice when Americans are turned down for jobs because they don’t speak Spanish and that’s what is spoken in the workplace? Is it social justice when a hospital closes because of the debt resulting from unpaid ER use? Is it social justice when people can’t start a business due to regulations making the cost too high? Is it social justice when ER employees die from anti-biotic–resistant TB caught from an illegal immigrant? Is it social justice when ISIS beheads Chritian and Yazidi men and sell their wives and daughters as sex slaves because ISIS is angry with the US? Is it social justice when a person has to go deeply into debt just to get a low-level job?

I agree!! And there are many more reasons why social justice is NOT what it ought to be, God Bless, Memaw
And is it social justice to help others not out of compassion and love for others but only for the sake of social justice?
 
In the United States we are plagued with the sins of social injustices. Pay inequities, .
World social injustice paints a bleak picture, why are you only quoting American injustice.
Nearly 1/2 of the world’s population — more than 3 billion people — live on less than $2.50a day. More than 1.3 billion live in extreme poverty — less than $1.25 a day. Around twenty thousand children die every day as a result of grinding poverty, starvation and preventable disease.
  1. You SHOULD give a homeless person money EVEN IF you know they will use it to buy alcohol because it will “give them some relief from the reality they are living in.” And finally and most surprisingly…
In January 2014, communities across America identified 49,933 homeless veterans during point-in-time counts, which represents 8.6 percent of the total homeless population. Many people with a mortgage or living in rented accommodation are only about three months away from being homeless, if you have an accident or loose your job.

Homeless shelters cannot cope with the huge numbers of homeless people, the majority are left to fend for themselves. I can imagine a smoke, drink or drugs would help many of them cope with the horrors of being homeless.
  1. ISIS and all terrorism around the world is the result of … “social injustice”. It has nothing, apparently, at all, to do with a perverted ‘religion’ or the manifestation of actual evil on earth. I guess just bad luck for those targeted Christians who are getting slaughtered in unspeakable ways.
9/11 was wrong, and the perpetrators should be brought to justice. However that does not justify invading two countries; resulting in the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent people; who had nothing to do with 9/11.

How does the Iraqi get justice if his house has been destroyed, a family member killed, and his family forced to become refugees. An innocent Iraqi has the same right to justice as an American. This is nothing to do with religion.
 
Ok… pretend it’s a ‘theoretical conversation’ if that helps alleviate any trust issues.
If it is a purely hypothetical scenario, it loses all its relevance as an issue that anybody would want to discuss. I don’t think there would be much of discussion here if you started out saying:

“Suppose there was a priest who said in his homily…”
 
Which is why I offered to PRIVATE message his name so he could call him. I guess we are left with only discussing things people hear first hand. Well, I heard it first hand.
I’m quite confident given this priest’s voracity on the subject, he’d be happy to repeat and defend everything in the OP for those that live in the “show me” state.
 
If it is a purely hypothetical scenario, it loses all its relevance as an issue that anybody would want to discuss. I don’t think there would be much of discussion here if you started out saying:

“Suppose there was a priest who said in his homily…”
So what was your point in expressing your doubts about the accuracy of my recount? To squash the conversation? Perhaps just thinking out loud? Do you honestly think my memory from something so vividly striking to me would get clouded in the hours between it’s occurrence and it’s being recounted here? :confused: FWIW - I’m on a Scripture study email group and the sentiment (and recollection) from those that were in attendance is exactly the same.

What I was after in this thread is discussion about the voracity of his proclamations against Catholic teachings. I don’t know how well that will be addressed when I meet with the parochial vicar (I think the priest wants it to be more about the ‘selection process for visiting priests’).
 
We’re not in a court of law, we’re just regular folks someone is asking a question of. The OP did not reveal the priest’s name, so he is not saying anything bad about anyone in particular, the OP is just asking about an experience he had. It is his experience, let him describe it the way he saw it. If you don’t like second-hand information–aside from the difficulties that must cause you in your life–then ignore the post.
 
World social injustice paints a bleak picture, why are you only quoting American injustice.
Nearly 1/2 of the world’s population — more than 3 billion people — live on less than $2.50a day. More than 1.3 billion live in extreme poverty — less than $1.25 a day. Around twenty thousand children die every day as a result of grinding poverty, starvation and preventable disease.

In January 2014, communities across America identified 49,933 homeless veterans during point-in-time counts, which represents 8.6 percent of the total homeless population. Many people with a mortgage or living in rented accommodation are only about three months away from being homeless, if you have an accident or loose your job.

Homeless shelters cannot cope with the huge numbers of homeless people, the majority are left to fend for themselves. I can imagine a smoke, drink or drugs would help many of them cope with the horrors of being homeless.

9/11 was wrong, and the perpetrators should be brought to justice. However that does not justify invading two countries; resulting in the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent people; who had nothing to do with 9/11.

How does the Iraqi get justice if his house has been destroyed, a family member killed, and his family forced to become refugees. An innocent Iraqi has the same right to justice as an American. This is nothing to do with religion.
I’m only quoting American injustices because it’s what the priest said. Yes, the globe is covered with injustice.
I’m not interested in debating the merits of any war. I am very interested in discussing the specific scriptural and doctrinal justification for the man’s proclamations.
 
Are you American first, or Catholic first? What is more important? Your Catholic religion, or your politically conservative beliefs?
This is precisely what I was trying to draw out about the description of the priest’s homily described in the OP. I am a Catholic who tries to align my political ideas with the teachings of the Church. To have a discussion about social justice which mentions 5 issues none of which is abortion, the greatest social injustice of all, and considering the 5 issues mentioned, I would conclude that the partisan first, Catholic second is the priest if his homily was accurately described.

because you brought up so many interesting points, I decided to answer more broadly than simply explaining my tactic. Probably we should take any individual points up in their own thread(s) so as not to derail this one with extraneous issues.
I am not asking any of this to be uncharitable, or condescending, but the Catholic Church has always called for social justice.
But, social justice as defined by whom?

Abortion – A Matter of Human Rights and Social Justice: “The right to safe abortion, to determine when and if to become a parent, and the right to healthy sexuality is an issue of both human rights and of social justice.”

Abortion Fund for Social Justice. (Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for them)

[sic]
The only difference now is you have a Pope who is calling louder, and some clergy are responding in term.
Priests like the one described have been talking like that for decades now. In fact, young people in the 1960s would leave the Church, thinking that engaging is social justice work was sufficient, not understanding the point of going to Mass.
Many of the things you’re speaking are injustices, certainly, but here’s the thing… There’s two sides to every argument. Things are seldom black and white as much as they are black and black.
And there are two sides to the issues he brought up too. For example, higher rates of incarceration among blacks? Supported by many prominent black people as they watched drugs ravage their communities.
Would we have illegals here in the first place, if their nations could provide for them, and their economies weren’t often ruined because of first world exploitations?
Do you know how long it has been since the First World “exploited” less-developed nations’ resources?

Do you know how much the US pays Mexico annually for oil? Do you know that the Mexican government does provide health care for its citizens? Perhaps if the US had taken care of its own poor and not shipped their jobs off to other nations, the poor here would not be using so many drugs, thus funding a corrupting and violence-fueled drug economy in Mexico which is reportedly driving Mexicans to illegally escape to the US.
Would ISIS even exist, if not for Western manipulation of Middle Eastern politics?
Does the destablization of ME governments somehow excuse ISIS from beheading Yazidi and Christian men and selling their wives and daughters as sex slaves?
Would those hospitals that closed because people couldn’t pay their ER bills, if healthcare was actually affordable or even provided by the state?
Last I heard, 56% of the illegal immigrants in the US were from Mexico, where they have state-provided health care.
Maybe when you look at the world, you see good and evil.
Yes, actually I do. I also see the chance for redemption, the opportunity to grow in holiness, neither of which seem to be on the radar of those priests like the one described.
But I just see a fallen world, with no clear heroes and villains,
What is the difference? Why are there no heroes in your world?

On 9/11, Father Rutler was walking on the streets near Wall Street. As the police and fire officials passed by and saw his collar, they stopped and made their confessions.

They knew where they were going, and they knew their chances of getting out. And they went anyway. They are heroes.

In November 2015, an Islamic militant attacked and killed people on a beach in Morroco. The Moslem workers at the hotel ran out to protect the tourists, forming a human shield and telling the gunman that he would have to kill them, Moslems, to get to the others. They are heroes.
but a world that I believe we can make better with love and compassion. But in order to do that, we need to break down the barriers around our own hearts, and far to often those barriers are political ideologies.
We cannot make the world a better place without first making people better people, by showing them the love of God and praying for their conversion. Answering evil done by force with an attempt to place good by force is not an answer.
 
I’m only quoting American injustices because it’s what the priest said. Yes, the globe is covered with injustice.
I’m not interested in debating the merits of any war. I am very interested in discussing the specific scriptural and doctrinal justification for the man’s proclamations.
And I was responding to your post…
  1. ISIS and all terrorism around the world is the result of … “social injustice”.
I believe most terrorism is the result of social injustice. If you and your family were Iraqi and living in Iraq in 2003 you would be anti America. If your home was destroyed, a loved one killed and you were forced to become a refugee, then you would understand social injustice as an Iraqi. How would an Iraqi get justice and compensation in such circumstances?

From the Iraqi perception, America had no right to invade their country.
 
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