What I was shocked to learn about "Social Justice" today from the pulpit

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And I was responding to your post…

I believe most terrorism is the result of social injustice. If you and your family were Iraqi and living in Iraq in 2003 you would be anti America. If your home was destroyed, a loved one killed and you were forced to become a refugee, then you would understand social injustice as an Iraqi. How would an Iraqi get justice and compensation in such circumstances?

From the Iraqi perception, America had no right to invade their country.
A LOT of Iraqi’s disagree with you it seems. I’m fairly confident my disdain for “the West” would have zero to do with my “Convert or die” mentality much less my sickening desire to dream up increasingly horrific ways to murder children and video tape it. The willingness to justify evil knows no bounds.

FYI - I’m the grandson of Syrian refugees. My grandmother’s first husband was killed and she was shot in the never ending fighting over there. Their biggest sin is they were Christians. They were not “America” and had nothing to do with “the West”.
 
And I was responding to your post…

I believe most terrorism is the result of social injustice.
What did Mohammed, the founder of Islam do? Why did he do it?

Do you think it is a form of social injustice against Yazidis and Christians to behead the men and sell the women and girls into sex slavery? If so, do you think the Yazidis and Christians have a right to commit terrorism against any Moslems they find around them? To fly planes into the towers of Dubai?
If you and your family were Iraqi and living in Iraq in 2003 you would be anti America.
In March, 2003, 72% of Iraqis thought the invasion was the right decision. And I imagine that those whose relatives were killed or tortired by Saddam or his sons were not swayed by the media and continued to think it was a good decision.
If your home was destroyed, a loved one killed and you were forced to become a refugee, then you would understand social injustice as an Iraqi. How would an Iraqi get justice and compensation in such circumstances?
About the same as the Kurds gassed by Saddam Hussein managed.
From the Iraqi perception, America had no right to invade their country.
Yes, perceptions do vary.
 
Wow, you are right about the research; I apologize for that! And I looked again and was unable to find any evidence for determining the response of the Iraqis like a poll.

As to your other two points: yes, tyrants do… And in fact all one has to do is to deal with children to find differing points of view and rationalization so, so one might find this to be a part of our fallen human nature, and not limited to tyrants and empires.

As to the replacement of Saddam by 100 more like him… That is perhaps too big a topic for this thread.
 
What did Mohammed, the founder of Islam do? Why did he do it?
I am not sure what you mean. The Bible is also a hard read, God commanded the Israelites to kill every man, woman and child in a town. God commanded Moses to have a man stoned to death for gathering firewood on the Sabbath.
Do you think it is a form of social injustice against Yazidis and Christians to behead the men and sell the women and girls into sex slavery?
Of course it is a terrible injustice, but you must also try and see the injustice done against the Muslims too.
And I imagine that those whose relatives were killed or tortired by Saddam or his sons were not swayed by the media and continued to think it was a good decision.
If Saddam had been left in power, the world could blame Saddam for all the problems. However, once America and Britain invaded, we have to take the credit and the blame for the outcome.

If the motives of America and Britain were truly to save lives, they could help the twenty thousand children that die every day, as a result of grinding poverty, preventable disease and starvation. Just to put that in some sort of perspective, about a hundred million children have died needlessly since 9/11.

No guns would be needed.to help them.
Yes, perceptions do vary.
Justice can only be called justice when we seek it for all people, and not just our own kind.
 
FYI - I’m the grandson of Syrian refugees. My grandmother’s first husband was killed and she was shot in the never ending fighting over there. Their biggest sin is they were Christians. They were not “America” and had nothing to do with “the West”.
We share a similar story, my mother and grandparents were forced to leave their home when Smyrna was burnt down by the Turks, about half a million were killed and a million became refugees. They were also Christians, they spent about twenty years wondering around the Middle East, they came to Britain during the Second World War.
 
My main point in my posts are to point out that the description in the OP was of someone who was party-oriented rather than Catholic-oriented. I addressed specific issues only to show that, yes, there is more than one side to most issues, even issues we have already made our minds up about.
I am not sure what you mean. The Bible is also a hard read, God commanded the Israelites to kill every man, woman and child in a town. God commanded Moses to have a man stoned to death for gathering firewood on the Sabbath.
Since God can see into our hearts, He gave a clear sentence.

But the justification for the newly-formed group’s war-mongering was to spread Islam by force, something they did very successfully as they slaughtered their way into power from India to the Pyrenees in less than 150 years. This is an historical fact, not something from a book which may be interpreted in different aspects.
Of course it is a terrible injustice, but you must also try and see the injustice done against the Muslims too.
So, would the Yazidis by justified in flying planes into skyscrapers in Dubai on the basis of injustices done by ISIS to them?
If Saddam had been left in power, the world could blame Saddam for all the problems. However, once America and Britain invaded, we have to take the credit and the blame for the outcome.
So we are to blame for ISIS selling girls as sex slaves? The members of ISIS have no free will but are solely directed by what the West does to them?
If the motives of America and Britain were truly to save lives, they could help the twenty thousand children that die every day, as a result of grinding poverty, preventable disease and starvation. Just to put that in some sort of perspective, about a hundred million children have died needlessly since 9/11.
The US is the largest (on a per capita basis) donor of private charity in the world, followed by Australia. Not everything is an either/or situation.

We could go into Mexico and clean up their situation so Mexicans would not feel a need to come here illegally and would be able to live in peace, too.
No guns would be needed.to help them.
I don’t know about that. . . Attacks on aid workers has always existed, and now seems to be on the rise.
Justice can only be called justice when we seek it for all people, and not just our own kind.
It’s not an either/or situation, and your implication is unwarranted. We should seek justice for *all *people, even including “our own kind,” as you describe them.
 
Which is why we shouldn’t have gotten involved in the first place!
 
Are you being sarcastic?
Yeah, yeah, tell it to those who actually had access to classified info and voted for it. I’m not allowed to mention names or party affiliations.

But back to my main point: All I wanted to do was show that the OP described a partisan situation *as well. *
 
Was there a “Peace Pole” somewhere on the parish grounds?
 
…or, he speaks of the ‘lukewarmness’ Jesus was talking about. He wants us to be Catholic in our hearts. He wants us to substantiate our Faith.

The same point is addressed when a judge at trial allows the mother of a murdered and raped daughter to speak before the sentencing of the accused. She said she forgave him, and that he should not be executed. Many at the trial also walked out in outrage.

In a similar case, those who ‘walk out’ would take issue with St. Francis, and lack his spirit. He welcomed criminals and murderers that society wanted to get rid of. He went out of his way to have them return, when they were turned away from his order.

Many must have lost years of Faith when Jesus said to Dismus that he would be sharing the table with Him and his Father on that day.

Even lately the story goes that in a confraternity which is now awaiting canonization, an incident occured. A prefect priest was visiting.(the confraternity promise is to follow in the steps of St. Francis.) At the group luncheon, the priest was discussing his work in Restorative Justice in the prison ministry with a member who was a civil employee in the justice system working directly with offenders. Another member, inspired by the talk, admitted he had a misdemeanor on record going back 35 years. Two new members for the first time left the assembly promptly, because they viewed the admittance as disrupting.
The teller told me that he took the discussion between them as sincere and open, and felt at home. He assumed the priest would have known the proper time and context to introduce such discussions. Further, he took confidence from the assembly calling him brother, and assumed the designation came from the heart. He said his family and biological siblings never took offense when he talked about it. He left the confraternity.

I feel that the question should be, “does the Catholic of today really know the HEART of Catholicism”.?

There are no ‘write-offs’ since Christ came to us. This idea is left to those who have contracted the dogma of ‘luke warmness’, and started or adopted off-shoot churches, falsely calling themselves Christian, and go about evil by diverting the ‘little ones’ from the true path.

The Catholic sees the lives of his societal ‘siblings’ as a complete life cycle, and does not stop when he fails. He shares his successes, and helps him when he stumbles. If God’s Authority on earth, Society, which itself is mandated to be guided by Mother Church in it’s duty, should pass sentence on him, then the Catholic waits for him and prays and comforts his family. When he’s out, he helps him to become the ‘new man’ and pick up where he left off.

WE are the source of Christ’s charity on earth while we await his return.
 
Is it social justice when big corporations are granted tax breaks to move overseas, costing Americans their jobs?
They weren’t granted tax breaks to do this. It’s more complex than that–they’re taking advantage of laws that have been on the books that have now become attractive to use because other nations have lowered tax rates over the years–making doing this an attractive thing to do. Of course if we as consumers punished them when they did it by refusing to purchase their goods–they might rethink their actions–but are people really going to give up their I-phones and stop eating at Burger King?

Is it social justice when large companies ship jobs to low wage countries to make greater profits?
Is it social justice when hundreds of thousands of Americans are denied the means of self-defense against criminals in their midst?
Background checks are really preventing that many people from getting a fire-arm? I don’t know a single person whose tried to purchase a fire arm and been denied. Inconvenient? Yes? Preventing them? No. Where do you live that you see so many criminals? Are you daily having to defend yourself from thugs trying to harm you?

Is it social justice when innocent american’s are gunned down by these assault type weapons of personal protection?
Is it social justice when unborn babies are deliberately killed?
Of course not.
Is it social justice when Americans are turned down for jobs because they don’t speak Spanish and that’s what is spoken in the workplace?
Is it social justice when someone is turned down for a job because they don’t speak English well and that is what is spoken in the workplace? Sometimes you have to learn a language to get a certain job–it can be a legitimate requirement.
Is it social justice when a hospital closes because of the debt resulting from unpaid ER use?
Is it social justice when a hospital turns away a dying patient because they don’t have health insurance? Is it social justice when hospitals are making record profits (news story this morning)? Is it social justice when the hospital charges me $25 for an aspirin? Is it social justice when a company buys the rights to a drug and raises the price of the drug from $13.50 per pill to $750 per pill?
Is it social justice when people can’t start a business due to regulations making the cost too high?
Is it social justice when people die in collapsing buildings and bridges because of shoddy work to make an extra buck. Is it social justice when peoples homes go up in flames from substandard wiring so someone can make a little more profit? Is it social justice when people die from tainted food? Is it social justice when people die in a mining accidents caused by disregard for the miners safety? Is it social justice when you die from poison sold as medicine? Is it social justice when you’re forced to accept script for your wages and shop at the company store?

We don’t get these regulations to make it hard for business owners–we get them because many business owners have acted in ways that endanger the safety of and cause the death of workers and consumers. We get them because of our own bad behavior.
Is it social justice when ER employees die from anti-biotic–resistant TB caught from an illegal immigrant?
Really? We have antibiotic resistant TB because of american’s, many of whom are homeless and/or mentally ill, who fail to finish their course of antibiotics. We have antibiotic resistant organisms because american’s request antibiotics for illnesses that don’t require them and doctors who capitulate to those requests. We have antibiotic resistant organisms because american’s insist on using antibiotic hand soaps rather than good ole soap and water. Please let’s take some responsibility for the things we do.
And is it social justice to help others not out of compassion and love for others but only for the sake of social justice?
Do you think those you are helping care why you are helping them? Perhaps those who start helping just because they think they should will grow to love and have compassion for those they help if they didn’t start out with it.

The peace of Christ,
Mark
 
I’m personally neither. I’m Christian first. As such, while it is possible to forgive, I’m not inclined to make excuses for sin or operate under the false hope that we can hug it out all the time. I firmly believe Mexico and it’s peoples are WORSE off thanks to our porous border that helps perpetuate the evils and atrocities that exist there.
Prior to the 1965 immigration act which I believe went into affect in 1968–there were no restrictions on immigration to the US from nations in the western hemisphere. Those from western hemisphere nations could come and go as they pleased. And they did come and go with very few problems. Illegal immigration, as we know it today, was really born of this act. Many of the issues in Mexico may not be because our border is so porous now, but rather may have been caused or accelerated by the closed nature of our border since 1968 rather than by it’s “porous” nature since. After all prior to 1968 it was wide open to Mexicans.

The peace of Christ,
Mark
 
They weren’t granted tax breaks to do this. It’s more complex than that–they’re taking advantage of laws that have been on the books that have now become attractive to use because other nations have lowered tax rates over the years–making doing this an attractive thing to do. Of course if we as consumers punished them when they did it by refusing to purchase their goods–they might rethink their actions–but are people really going to give up their I-phones and stop eating at Burger King?

Is it social justice when large companies ship jobs to low wage countries to make greater profits?

Background checks are really preventing that many people from getting a fire-arm? I don’t know a single person whose tried to purchase a fire arm and been denied. Inconvenient? Yes? Preventing them? No. Where do you live that you see so many criminals? Are you daily having to defend yourself from thugs trying to harm you?

Is it social justice when innocent american’s are gunned down by these assault type weapons of personal protection?

Of course not.

Is it social justice when someone is turned down for a job because they don’t speak English well and that is what is spoken in the workplace? Sometimes you have to learn a language to get a certain job–it can be a legitimate requirement.

Is it social justice when a hospital turns away a dying patient because they don’t have health insurance? Is it social justice when hospitals are making record profits (news story this morning)? Is it social justice when the hospital charges me $25 for an aspirin? Is it social justice when a company buys the rights to a drug and raises the price of the drug from $13.50 per pill to $750 per pill?

Is it social justice when people die in collapsing buildings and bridges because of shoddy work to make an extra buck. Is it social justice when peoples homes go up in flames from substandard wiring so someone can make a little more profit? Is it social justice when people die from tainted food? Is it social justice when people die in a mining accidents caused by disregard for the miners safety? Is it social justice when you die from poison sold as medicine? Is it social justice when you’re forced to accept script for your wages and shop at the company store?

We don’t get these regulations to make it hard for business owners–we get them because many business owners have acted in ways that endanger the safety of and cause the death of workers and consumers. We get them because of our own bad behavior.

Really? We have antibiotic resistant TB because of american’s, many of whom are homeless and/or mentally ill, who fail to finish their course of antibiotics. We have antibiotic resistant organisms because american’s request antibiotics for illnesses that don’t require them and doctors who capitulate to those requests. We have antibiotic resistant organisms because american’s insist on using antibiotic hand soaps rather than good ole soap and water. Please let’s take some responsibility for the things we do.
I have already tried to make clear that my main point in presenting those issues was to show the bias of the priest in the OP, so I’m not going to discuss these any further in this thread.

And I have learned my lesson; next time I will just say biased homily and leave it at that.
Do you think those you are helping care why you are helping them?
As a matter of fact, I do; I think it is very important for both the helper and the helped. In fact, I would say it is the most important thing.
Perhaps those who start helping just because they think they should will grow to love and have compassion for those they help if they didn’t start out with it.
Could possibly happen is not an argument.
The peace of Christ,
Mark
 
Luke’s gospel emphasizes mercy. What is at the heart of true social justice? Mercy. But what is at the heart of mercy? Love. So love of God and love of neighbor is at the heart of social justice. Unfortunately, without a solid grounding in the faith and in Truth, love of neighbor gets broken off from its moorings and drifts into the warped version of social justice that often comes from the Left. Regardless, though, we are called to be merciful to all. Act in a way that displays mercy, not in a way that shows coldness.

When the prodigal son returned to his father, did the father scold him? Absolutely not! He threw a party, which disturbed the “faithful son”. Remember the father’s comments to the “faithful son” - “everything I have is yours, but for now, we celebrate, for your brother was dead and is alive again; he was lost, but now, he is found”. This didn’t justify the prodigal son’s actions. Far from it. But it gave him back his dignity.

At the same time, “Admonishing the sinner” and “Instructing the ignorant” are considered Spiritual Works of Mercy. Why? Because mercy is meaningless without Truth. And it is an act of mercy to show people what the Truth is so that they can follow it. But as we are body-souls, and often don’t think about our spiritual needs unless our physical needs are met, we must never forget the Corporal Works of Mercy. In fact, a huge part of the final judgment rests on how well we showed mercy.

Jesus mentions this over and over throughout the gospels:

“You wicked servant! I forgave your debt because you begged me to! Should you not have done the same to your fellow servant?”;

" ’ Lord, when did we see you hungry, or thirsty, or naked, or sick, or imprisoned, and not cater to your needs?’ ‘Amen, I say to you, whenever you neglected the least of my children, you did the same to me. Off then, to the lake of fire prepared for the devil and his angels!’ And they will be sent off to the eternal darkness, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth, while those on his right will enter into eternal life."

Remember, there is always a temptation among those of us who are diligently faithful to be like the older brother. We must resist this temptation. We must never forget our own need for mercy from God, so we must so mercy to others. Of course, this doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t call out evil where it exists (we must certainly do so), but we should do so with authentic love.
 
In a similar case, those who ‘walk out’ would take issue with St. Francis, and lack his spirit. He welcomed criminals and murderers that society wanted to get rid of. He went out of his way to have them return, when they were turned away from his order.

I feel that the question should be, “does the Catholic of today really know the HEART of Catholicism”.?

.
Good post, and I would agree, I have noticed at my parish, if someone is not already of a certain social standing, they will not really ‘fit in’ with the other members, especially true if they are a criminal or even have a criminal record. The other parishioners would shun them, tell their kids to stay away from them, try to get them removed, etc.

The only church I have ever been to where it was obvious everyone was accepted and not judged on what kind of people they were, was the Pentecostal church, During my time at one in the past, I have seen numerous people speak about their sins/crimes in front of the whole congregation and everyone still accepted them, tried to lead them to God and help.

I think ‘lukewarmness’ is a MAJOR problem in CC today, many parish members expect the person or family to already be a good person before they join or come to mass, but then again, from the many people I know personally at my parish and from things Ive seen, my church is really about popularity and social standing, they do good things but there is a definite limit, they would most certainly abide by secular laws over Gods laws if it came down to it, and overall, their secular lives are the priority.
 
Today 6/10/2016, there was a discussion of social justice on Catholic Answers radio… This is a topic I don’t like because of threads like this, there’s all sorts of points of view.

Does the gospel really compel me to sell all I have and give it to the poor? Well, first of all, then I’m poor and the poor are rich. So, then they should give me something, but would they? So, I destroy myself, which I believe is immoral. I would run out of insulin (I’m diabetic) and I’d die.

I don’t think all of us selling all we have and giving it to the poor is even required, to help the poor. And, I am dismayed that I can donate to the American Red Cross, for example, and the money may not even get to the people in need. I sent money to a Catholic aid organization as soon as I heard there was an earthquake in Haiti. I didn’t wait for an appeal. But, I don’t know what happened to the money. so, my donation is very symbolic.

I have been giving money to one particular homeless guy in my town. He doesn’t beg, but he’s now looking for me to come around. He stares at me (and I don’t always have money on hand to give him). He’s a complex case, because he declines help from the local homeless shelter, which is just a few blocks away. He seems to have chosen to live on the streets and he’s fine with that.

Now, there’s a middle aged woman who is rummaging through the trash for beer and pop bottles (10 cent deposit in Michigan) and when I’ve seen her, I’ve given her money, which she seems to appreciate. Unlike the previous man, who just sleeps on a bench, this woman is working for her money.

I confessed once that I didn’t give enough to a man who begged some money from me. the priest almost exploded that I would even think of doing such a thing, instead of giving to the local soup kitchen (which he made up for the sake of conversation).

Social justice really confuses me, because there is, as Jesus said, the poor will always be with you. I can’t do as much as I would want to do, even if I tried.

the NT also says, if you don’t work, you shouldn’t eat. The sayings of the NT are like red hot iron to me, I get burned on all of them. It’s a riddle, and I don’t like riddles.
 
Today 6/10/2016, there was a discussion of social justice on Catholic Answers radio… This is a topic I don’t like because of threads like this, there’s all sorts of points of view.

Does the gospel really compel me to sell all I have and give it to the poor? Well, first of all, then I’m poor and the poor are rich. So, then they should give me something, but would they? So, I destroy myself, which I believe is immoral. I would run out of insulin (I’m diabetic) and I’d die.

I don’t think all of us selling all we have and giving it to the poor is even required, to help the poor. And, I am dismayed that I can donate to the American Red Cross, for example, and the money may not even get to the people in need. I sent money to a Catholic aid organization as soon as I heard there was an earthquake in Haiti. I didn’t wait for an appeal. But, I don’t know what happened to the money. so, my donation is very symbolic.

I have been giving money to one particular homeless guy in my town. He doesn’t beg, but he’s now looking for me to come around. He stares at me (and I don’t always have money on hand to give him). He’s a complex case, because he declines help from the local homeless shelter, which is just a few blocks away. He seems to have chosen to live on the streets and he’s fine with that.

Now, there’s a middle aged woman who is rummaging through the trash for beer and pop bottles (10 cent deposit in Michigan) and when I’ve seen her, I’ve given her money, which she seems to appreciate. Unlike the previous man, who just sleeps on a bench, this woman is working for her money.

I confessed once that I didn’t give enough to a man who begged some money from me. the priest almost exploded that I would even think of doing such a thing, instead of giving to the local soup kitchen (which he made up for the sake of conversation).

Social justice really confuses me, because there is, as Jesus said, the poor will always be with you. I can’t do as much as I would want to do, even if I tried.

the NT also says, if you don’t work, you shouldn’t eat. The sayings of the NT are like red hot iron to me, I get burned on all of them. It’s a riddle, and I don’t like riddles.
First of all, don’t beat yourself up. You’re trying to help however you can. It’s hard in today’s society, really. We are called to help those in true distress, but it’s often difficult or even nearly impossible to tell whether someone is in true distress today or not. Many people are homeless today due to loss of income, and then lost their homes to foreclosure and/or eviction due to not being able to replace the income. Many others are homeless due to mental illness and/or addiction. At the same time, local programs to try to help the homeless are often fought against for one reason or another.

St. Paul did state that those who do not work should not eat. But he, of course, was referring to those who actually can work. Many of our homeless have mental illness problems, and thus probably would not be able to hold a steady job even if they wanted to work. Yet they refuse help. Why do they refuse help? Sometimes, it’s a result of their mental illness in and of itself (paranoia that those wanting to help them actually are planning to do something horrible to them in some way, shape, or form). Other times, they’ve tried to get help and were refused it for some reason (generally due to lack of funding for psychiatric services). And for those with addiction problems, quite often the addiction is stronger than the desire to ask for help. So we’re in a quandry. Probably the best way to help in the short term is to volunteer time, talent, and treasure to assist local faith-based charities that work directly with those in need - and to offer something tangible (like water, blankets, socks, snacks, etc.) for people we come across in desperate need. And in the long term, we need to make sure that those with mental illness issues who want to get help with their mental illness can get the psychiatric help that they need.
 
I like my church for a lot of reasons, one is, they almost universally leave the politics out.
We have a very diverse congregation. Today we had a ‘visiting’ (and retired) priest who has never been there before. He entered with a scowl on his face. I thought “Never judge a book by it’s cover, but that is odd”. After today’s scripture readings he took the pulpit to deliver the homily.
This is what I learned …
  1. The Gospel of Luke is “all about social justice”.
  2. Today’s Gospel reading of LK 7:11-17 is all about social justice. Christ did not raise the man for pity for the deceased or moved by the procession of friends and family but He raised the man because otherwise his mother (widow) wouldn’t have been allowed to own property since men were only allowed to own property and therefore he did it for ‘social justice’.
  3. In the United States we are plagued with the sins of social injustices. Pay inequities, and minority prison populations. They are not ‘coincidences but intentional’.
  4. You SHOULD give a homeless person money EVEN IF you know they will use it to buy alcohol because it will “give them some relief from the reality they are living in.” And finally and most surprisingly…
  5. ISIS and all terrorism around the world is the result of … “social injustice”. It has nothing, apparently, at all, to do with a perverted ‘religion’ or the manifestation of actual evil on earth. I guess just bad luck for those targeted Christians who are getting slaughtered in unspeakable ways.
    He felt compelled to preach yet again at the conclusion of mass about the “social injustices” in this country (abortion didn’t make his list).
    It is the first time in my life (cradle Catholic) I almost walked out of mass.
    I’ve intentionally saved all the scriptural retorts to the above and any sarcasm (couldn’t help myself on #5, sorry) or highlighting of my disgust, as I wanted it to be a direct recount of what was communicated without any editorializing.
    I would be very interested in any comments by those who find the the content of the above sermon defensible.
I find it not only defensible, but pretty much dead-on. I might quibble that he is being a little speculative on the passage in Luke. No. 4 is a little questionable. No. 5 is dead-on. The reason why terrorist organizations exist is ultimately because of social injustice. The epistle of James says almost exactly that. That does not mean that ISIS and other like organizations are not evil. Evil breeds evil. He should have mentioned abortion as a social injustice, but abortion, like any other evil, arises out of a specific social context. It isn’t a bunch of godless women deciding they will take an unborn life for the fun of it.
 
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