What I was shocked to learn about "Social Justice" today from the pulpit

[Expatreprocedit]

Jesus of Nazareth preached the coming of the Kingdom of God in which all will be equal. A faith without a sense of social justice may be orthodox but cannot claim to seek Jesus vision of God’s Kingdom.

It is not orthodox either.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

I suspect what is being objected to is the connotation of a particular term. It’s quite unlikely that people oppose actual justice.

Posting #71 was as clear as it could be. There was no equivocation or indication that that only “some connotations” of social justice were the problem. I guess if you never believe people mean what they say, you can never be convinced that some people argue against social justice. That, despite the fact that apparently you agree that some people do argue against social justice. (You said such people do exist.)

However true this may be, we cannot know why people take the positions they do, and assuming the worst is an example of rash judgment.
It may not always be the accurate way of looking at things, but it is the way a Catholic is to interpret the actions of others. It is the obligation of charity.

I am not judging any specific people, so the criticism does not apply. I simply objected to your generality that no one is arguing against social justice.

 

[JB_Brother_4446]

Where does Yeshua say that he has destroyed the legal framework of the Law ? Jesus says "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (Matthew 5:17)
There were also dark haired rather sun-burnt Jews too. Point I’m making is representations of Yeshua tend to be cultural icons and add to a subtle form of racism and anti-semitism. Hence in the past attacks by Christians on Jews and Christians keeping slaves.

And love fufills the law.

 

[Peccavi]

Love for your fellows involves a search for social justice for all or it is meaningless. Just as defence of the unborn involves a commitment to them after birth. Its Pie-in-the-Sky theology to talk of Love and being Pro_life without the desire to act out those beliefs.

 

[Gemma6039]

Actually, I am sorry to speak in such a generalized statement.

REAL social justice such as giving to organizations that help the poor, etc. is exactly what Christ wants us to do.

The problem is that this particular visiting priest is using “social justice” to promote his left-wing platform.

Today, in politics, the term social justice is rather code for socialism. What is termed social justice today is not at all what the true Christian social justice is.

We are not required to put our nation in harm’s way in the name of Christianity; ie. a borderless society.

Real social justice is giving to the poor, but it is also protecting one’s borders and families against terrorists and those who are opposed to this political social justice are often demonized by liberal Catholic priests.

By the way, we are required to tithe at church and I don’t know about your churches, but mine feeds the homeless at least once a week and is VERY humanitarian.

I just don’t like the way the term is used today.

 

[David_Fortin]

Gemma6039 hit the nail squarely on it’s head! I’m a recently returned Catholic, and remembered that liberalism was a primary reason I turned away from the church. It was like returning to the beautiful home, only to find it infested with Marxist rats. I truly believe that the Catholic Church’s embrace of Socialism has led to it’s decline in the west. Liberalism practically drove me to Protestantism, in the 90’s. Now that I’ve returned home I’ve found the situation to be even worse than I remember.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

REAL social justice such as giving to organizations that help the poor, etc. is exactly what Christ wants us to do.

The problem is that this particular visiting priest is using “social justice” to promote his left-wing platform.

Thank you for clarifying your position. I think the priest in the OP was doing just what you say. And I hope you will be equally critical of any priest who uses the pulpit to promote his right-wing platform.

 

[ShrodingersCat]

Are you American first, or Catholic first? What is more important? Your Catholic religion, or your politically conservative beliefs? I am not asking any of this to be uncharitable, or condescending, but the Catholic Church has always called for social justice.

The only difference now is you have a Pope who is calling louder, and some clergy are responding in term.

Many of the things you’re speaking are injustices, certainly, but here’s the thing… There’s two sides to every argument. Things are seldom black and white as much as they are black and black.

Would we have illegals here in the first place, if their nations could provide for them, and their economies weren’t often ruined because of first world exploitations? Would ISIS even exist, if not for Western manipulation of Middle Eastern politics? Would those hospitals that closed because people couldn’t pay their ER bills, if healthcare was actually affordable or even provided by the state?

Maybe when you look at the world, you see good and evil. But I just see a fallen world, with no clear heroes and villains, but a world that I believe we can make better with love and compassion. But in order to do that, we need to break down the barriers around our own hearts, and far to often those barriers are political ideologies.

What an excellent post.

 

[Peccavi]

Good post - closer to Yeshua’s ideas than most

 

[JB_Brother_4446]

Love for your fellows involves a search for social justice for all or it is meaningless. Just as defence of the unborn involves a commitment to them after birth. Its Pie-in-the-Sky theology to talk of Love and being Pro_life without the desire to act out those beliefs.

For what purpose did Jesus die on the cross if not to show the extent of true love?

 

[JB_Brother_4446]

Where does Yeshua say that he has destroyed the legal framework of the Law ? Jesus says "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (Matthew 5:17)
Hence in the past attacks by Christians on Jews and Christians keeping slaves.

He has destroyed the legal framework of the law. For instance, Jesus established divorce was against the will of God.

 

[Peccavi]

So Yeshua said he would not destroy the Law - Where ? Why asking Jesus “what shall I do to inherit eternal life” Jesus replied, “What is written in the law? How readest thou?” (Lk. 10: 25, 26). When the man correctly answered by alluding to the Ten Commandments, Jesus said “Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live” (vs. 27, 28). Jesus recognized the authority of the Hebrew scriptures when he quoted them to defeat the Tempter (Matt. 4, 7, 10, Deut. 8: 3; Ps. 91: 11, 12; Deut. 6: 16).
Jesus perfectly kept the Law of Moses. Jesus himself claimed to have been obedient to the law under which he lived, the Law of Moses (Jn. 8: 29, 55). In fact, the Jews were unable to convict Jesus of any transgression of the law (Jn. 8: 46). It is affirmed in the New Testament that Jesus “did no sin” and “was without sin” (I Pet. 2: 22; Heb. 4: 15). Jesus is the only “man” who ever sinlessly kept the law.
Likewise Jesus taught others to keep the law. As seen, Jesus recognized the authority of the law in his life and taught others to keep the law (Lk. 10: 25-28). Jesus instructed his disciples to obey the law (Matt. 23: 2, 3). Jesus defended the law and severely condemned those who perverted the Hebrew scripture (Mk. 7: 7-13; Matt. 23: 16-22).
Ir’s Paul who waffles on about Christ destroying the Law not Yeshua.

 

[JB_Brother_4446]

So He didn’t demolish the legal tenets of the law when He raised the dead, healed lepers and the sick, and offered to go into a centurion’s home? So He followed it when he associated with the Samaritans, people who Jews were forbidden to associate with? Love fufills the Law. Because of Jesus’ sacrifice we are able to have access to God. If we believe in Him and persevere in faith we will be saved. We are obliged to observe the moral but not ceremonial or legal tenets of the Mosaic Law. Jesus has set up a new law.

 

[Peccavi]

So He didn’t demolish the legal tenets of the law when He raised the dead, healed lepers and the sick, and offered to go into a centurion’s home? So He followed it when he associated with the Samaritans, people who Jews were forbidden to associate with? Love fufills the Law. Because of Jesus’ sacrifice we are able to have access to God. If we believe in Him and persevere in faith we will be saved. We are obliged to observe the moral but not ceremonial or legal tenets of the Mosaic Law. Jesus has set up a new law.

You are accepting Paul’s interpretation of Yeshua’s views and the Greek version contained in your New Testament. But there was an alternate very Jewish early version which attacked Paul’s narrative. Paul’s letters are full of complaints about other followers of Jesus attacking his interpretation. So you follow Paul and the Greek Christ, I follow the Jewish Messiah and the pre-Greek Nazarene view. The unity of the First Century Church is a myth which can easily be seen if you study the writings of the early church fathers in which they say clearly that there were various groups of followers of Jesus. The Pauline Greeks came out on top when the Roman Emperor Constantine adopted Christianity as the state religion and the Christians absorbed some Roman practices. The Nazarene faith was persecuted ( as were all forms of Judaism). Today we are seeing the re-emergence of the lost early Judeo-Jesus Messianic faith and with it the revival of Jewish teaching on social justice. Jesus preached against ritual practices not against the spirit of the Law.
As he clearly states he has not come to change the Law not one iota. You must thank Paul for your theology not Yeshua bin Yussef. - the anointed of God.

 

[Ender]

Posting #71 was as clear as it could be. There was no equivocation or indication that that only “some connotations” of social justice were the problem. I guess if you never believe people mean what they say, you can never be convinced that some people argue against social justice.

Yes, it was as clear as it could be, especially when he said: “*Social justice is basically a term for socialism.” *It should be reasonably obvious from that that what he objected to was not actual social justice as the term was originally used, but the connotation the term has taken on by those who have appropriated it to serve a political agenda.

At this point the term has no particular meaning; it has simply become a club used to beat those who oppose a (typically) liberal agenda. In that sense I oppose it too, but let’s not pretend that what is being opposed has anything at all to do with justice.

Ender

 

[LeafByNiggle]

At this point the term has no particular meaning; it has simply become a club used to beat those who oppose a (typically) liberal agenda. In that sense I oppose it too, but let’s not pretend that what is being opposed has anything at all to do with justice.

Ender

Yes, the term has been misused. But let’s not forget that there still is a real thing called Social Justice, and it a genuine part of Church doctrine. The fact that the term has been misused should not prevent anyone from attempting to use it correctly.

 

[mackbrislawn]

Yes, the term has been misused. But let’s not forget that there still is a real thing called Social Justice, and it a genuine part of Church doctrine. The fact that the term has been misused should not prevent anyone from attempting to use it correctly.

Yes, to use it correctly.

 

[Gemma6039]

I appreciate the posts by Ender and LeafbyNiggle.

Yes, Ender, I was trying to state my opposition to how the term is used today, not to authentic social justice.

Yes, LeafbyNiggle, we have to not throw the baby out with the bathwater. We still need to practice the real thing!

 

[JB_Brother_4446]

You are accepting Paul’s interpretation of Yeshua’s views and the Greek version contained in your New Testament. But there was an alternate very Jewish early version which attacked Paul’s narrative. Paul’s letters are full of complaints about other followers of Jesus attacking his interpretation. So you follow Paul and the Greek Christ, I follow the Jewish Messiah and the pre-Greek Nazarene view. The unity of the First Century Church is a myth which can easily be seen if you study the writings of the early church fathers in which they say clearly that there were various groups of followers of Jesus. The Pauline Greeks came out on top when the Roman Emperor Constantine adopted Christianity as the state religion and the Christians absorbed some Roman practices. The Nazarene faith was persecuted ( as were all forms of Judaism). Today we are seeing the re-emergence of the lost early Judeo-Jesus Messianic faith and with it the revival of Jewish teaching on social justice. Jesus preached against ritual practices not against the spirit of the Law.
As he clearly states he has not come to change the Law not one iota. You must thank Paul for your theology not Yeshua bin Yussef. - the anointed of God.

It is through Jesus we have access to God. I gave you at least three examples when Jesus disregarded the letter of the law. And as far as I’m concerned John and Matthew were Jews. You just pick and choose verses to support your theology.

 

[Peccavi]

YOu subscribe to the Pauline view of Yeshua. Paul never knew Yeshua during his lifetime and you never answered my claim that other followers of Jesus did not agree his Paul’s interpretation of Jesus life. Matthew was a Jew but the translation of his Gospel that survives was a Greek copy of the original Aramaic. John wrote his Gospel in Greek for a Greek audience incorporating into it the Greek concept of the Divine Logos hardly a Jewish idea. It is my belief based on my reading of the early groups of Yeshua followers that the faith created was more Greek and Roman than Jewish.
As for the Law Jesus did not abolish the moral and ethical laws that had been in effect from the time of Moses. He affirmed and expanded upon those principles, but He said obedience must be from the heart (attitudes and intentions) rather than just technical observance of the letter of the law (Matthew 5:21-22, 27-28, 31-32, 33-34, 38-42, 43-44, etc.).not just one quote.
However, Jesus and His disciples did not observe the strict scribal ritual rules like ritual washing before eating. Therefore, Jesus may have been specifically teaching that the moral and ethical laws in the Scripture would endure until the end of time. That would be consistent with His actions and other teachings. However, we only hear Jesus through copies of original Gospels. Scholars recognise that the early faith was more Jewish than the Christian faith taught today. The whole thrust of his Ministry is to proclaim the coming of God’s Kingdom and sharing the gifts of God’s earth. Very Jewish ideas. Jesus was and is still a Jew - the Messiah who taught in synagogue and Temple, who told the rich to give to the poor, the strong to protect the weak, an inclusive faith were women and children were as valuable as men. He did not preach personal salvation, but collective salvation. Personal salvation comes from the writings of Paul and a mistranslation in the Bible of the Aramaic “among” for “within”. I am quite at ease with my Messianic Yeshua and his teachings. However, I have also included the growing number of lost texts in my studies which the Catholic/Protestant/Orthodox class as “heresies”. I firmly believe in Yeshua(Jesus) as the Messiah - the anointed one of God but not in the Greco-Roman add-ons to an essentially Jewish faith.