Exactly.
I was taught that the last call is made by the husband. My Catholic friends also believe that…If the last call is not made by the husband then who makes the call? Flip a coin? How long do you wait to get agreement since most decisions (like having kids) is time sensitive? What if the reason divorce is so rampant is because there is nobody that is assigned to make the last call for the family once there is a disagreement? The rule that the tie goes to the runner in baseball is there for a reason…so that the game moves on. If there is no such rule in marriage then marriages are prone to get stuck and then be torn apart. What other multi-person groups in the world do not have a delegated leader to make decisions in the best interest of the entire group?
I guess the church is not as clear on this as I thought. One papal encyclical says that husband and wife are to submit to each other. A previous encyclical specifically states that the husband is the head and the wife is the heart.
I guess the church is not as clear on this as I thought. One papal encyclical says that husband and wife are to submit to each other. A previous encyclical specifically states that the husband is the head and the wife is the heart.
Which pope has the last word on this issue? I agree with I would think this should be addressed in the Catechism to resolve this issue. Would you agree?Here’s the encyclical that talks about this.
vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_31121930_casti-connubii_en.html
The relevant section starts around number 26.
Basically, the Church definitely uses the language of the husband having authority, however, when you actually look closely at what is being said you discover that the Church’s ideal is actually essentially a model of mutual submission. I can explain more on what I mean by that and why I say that if you want.
Honestly, this is something that I don’t fully understand why the Church insists on using this language, but I take that to mean that there is some extra layer or depth to the marriage relationship that I don’t understand very well yet which is being pointed out by using this language. But I’m working on figuring it out. What I do know is that Casti Connubii makes it very clear that the husbands authority over his wife is not a universal one-sided dominance, that it is wrong to think this order comes from some defect in women’s ability to think or reason, that there are times when it is a wifes duty to stand up to her husband and take his authority, and that the ideal order of a man’s authority over his wife will look different in different households depending on many factors, including the people, place and time (In other words the form of authority will change depending on the people and their particular strengths and weaknesses as well as the culture they live in). When you take into account that the Church’s teaching on the husband’s role actually is, that he must lead by serving and by sacrificing every aspect of himself for his wife, it becomes pretty aparant that while the Church uses this language of the husband having authority over his wife it very clearly does not mean it as the domineering or universal and complete authority many people take it to mean.
I hope that is helpful.
The issue is that none of this is in the Catechism so does that now allow people to just accept or reject this teaching?
The thing is though, if you actually read Casti Conubii you’ll see that the Church’s position on this makes it very clear that while a wife should submit to her husband and a husband should live a life of sacrificing for his wife, the wife is supposed to use her own reason to determine when what her husband asks of her is in accord with right reason, and so, whether or not it is right for her to give in on that point. In other words, it is wrong to say that Casti Conubii says women should always just do what their husbands say. That is not at all what it says. Wives are not supposed to suspend their own judgement and prudence and just sit back and do whatever their husbands ask them. That has never been the teaching of the Catholic Church.
My point is that they are both teachings of the Church. And, as it so happens, they are not contradictory so there is no need to accept one and reject the other. That is what I am trying to point out. If you actually read CC carefully you see that what it amounts to really is mutual submission, the husband sacrificing his own will and so submitting to his wife and the wife doing the same, both husband and wife submitting to each other. The wife is not seen as inferior, she is not seen as someone with a weaker intellect or reasoning power, she is to help her husband, and, as needed, step in and take over from him if it is for the good of the family etc. None of this is incompatible with the idea of mutual submission. You just have to understand what is meant by each of them. You shouldn’t be looking to pick and choose between Church teachings, but rather to learn how to read them all in light of each other and in a compatible manner. They are all Church teaching.
One-sided submission does not necessarily make good marriages. If a woman wants such a marriage, that is up to her but let’s not say this is a rule of the Church. A woman does not have to be lead anywhere. Decisions should be mutual with give and take.
Actually, there is no rule in baseball that says the tie go to the runner. The runner is safe if the runner beats the tag. You can look it up.
Actually I was taught this whole thing about husband “headship” has nothing whatsoever to do with dominance, authority, or “having the last say.”
Umm, my marriage certainly doesn’t have a delegated leader to always make all the final decisions. Neither do my parents’. As if my mother would go for that.
And certainly not myself.I agree that the wife needs to provide (name removed by moderator)ut and her own views on the decisions and should never just blindly follow her husband. However, there may be a time when God asks the wife to trust Him by following their husbands loving lead for the salvation of the Family just like God asked Jesus to submit to His will for the salvation of his bride (the church).
Perhaps the unofficial delegated leader is you? If you asked your husband who makes the final call when you can not reach agreement together what would he say? I mean there is no majority vote when a husband and wife do not agree so someone as to make the final call. Also, over time it becomes clear who makes more “final calls” then the other so someone is leading your family whether your officially recognize that person or not as the delegated leader. I believe God will hold your husband responsible for being a harsh dominant leader or an absent leader. Jesus was the perfect groom to lead his bride (the church) and men need to follow the example of Jesus.Umm, my marriage certainly doesn’t have a delegated leader to always make all the final decisions. Neither do my parents’. As if my mother would go for that.
