What if a couple disagrees on more kids?

[maryjk]

This is exactly what I have been trying to communicate. Thanks for sharing.

Sorry, but I have been reading all of the posts and this isn’t at all what you were saying.

It may have been what you meant to say, but it isn’t what you said.

 

[Paul_Fekete]

“I make all the decisions and I get respect, or else I check out”…that is a man to be respected? That is the way a husband ought to become leader in his own home? You can’t mean that.

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Yes, A man should not have to earn respect. The world says you need to earn respect. God says I respect you despite your sinfulness. Of course men should never check out and give up otherwise they would not be following the example of Jesus. However, if a man does fall short that is no exuse for the wife to not respect her husband as much is it is possible for her to do.

 

[Debora123]

And as a military wife with 8 kids I can tell you many many MANY of us do this. The average family size at our current base is 4 children, but I know many of us with 6+ kids. That is not a good example of compromise at all, and what’s more it is sad that it would even be thought of to do that to your spouse

Congratulations, but it’s not for me. And I have yet to meet a military wife with more than 3 or 4 kids. So I don’t see this “many many MANY” you speak of, but that’s not the point.

And I really don’t appreciate your condescending tone regarding a decision/compromise that my husband and I made together. Not all of us can do well with 8 kids under these types of circumstances. I sacrificed for him and he sacrificed for me so that we’d both be healthy and happy.

 

[severus68]

No my point is that Jesus was still equal to God Spiritually even though Jesus took on the role to be submissive to the will of the Father. Being submissive as a role does not mean you are not equal in the eyes of God. That is a lie that is propagated by our culture. Is a worker not equal to his/her boss at work if they submit to their boss?

No, the worker is not equal to his boss. As employee, he is a subordinate.

 

[thewanderer]

Please do try to keep in point my point from earlier in this thread about Casti Conubii explicitly stating that the form of marital decision making will differ not only from couple to couple, but also depending on the time and the place. So while a form of submission and authority as described by 7armyrugrats is not the only acceptable form, according to the Catholic Church. And, in all honesty, such a form is only compatible with Church teaching if the wife is continuously and honestly choosing of her own free will to give up her authority and submit to her husbands authority and decisions. Otherwise the model is skewed and it broods discontentment and creates a division between the couple, which is precisely what Casti Conubii tells us is to be avoided at all costs.

Which means that if a man finds himself married to a woman who does not want to give him last say then it is his duty to sacrifice his own ability to have a last say for the sake of the unity and contentment of his family. This is all a part of that sacrificing ones very life for ones wife thing that men are required to do. There are times when it would be much more harmful to a marriage to be executed with the format of husband getting last say than for him to allow the wife to have last say in certain things as well.

 

[thewanderer]

Yes, A man should not have to earn respect. The world says you need to earn respect. God says I respect you despite your sinfulness. Of course men should never check out and give up otherwise they would not be following the example of Jesus. However, if a man does fall short that is no exuse for the wife to not respect her husband as much is it is possible for her to do.

As much as it is possible for her to do is kind of the key part here.

 

[Paul_Fekete]

No, the worker is not equal to his boss. As employee, he is a subordinate.

The worker is Spiritual equal to the Boss was the point I was making. Just like the husband and the wife are Spiritually equal before God. (Galations 3:28)

 

[thewanderer]

Sorry, but I have been reading all of the posts and this isn’t at all what you were saying.

It may have been what you meant to say, but it isn’t what you said.

 

[7armyrugrats]

I am in my mid-thirties and the trend I see is for the husband to cherish his wife and for the wife not to respecting the husband. In fact, around 90% of the divorces I have been exposed to were caused by the wife leaving the husband for another man. The women felt empowered to make their own decisions after they fell “out of love” with their first husband. All the husbands were willing to work on things, but it was the wife who wanted out. These were loving husbands (not perfect), but they at least made efforts to cherish the wife. The cultural trend is moving in the opposite direction which is why so few men are getting married and staying married. Many men see marriage as a losing scenario. “If I live with my girlfriend she respects me much more, then if we were married” is the thinking of many young men. Extreme feminism has damaged marriage in many ways that you may not realize. On the flip side there are many young women who are trying to find men who will love and lead them like Jesus, but they cannot find any such men.

This is what I see too. I see many young men trampled on and publically disrespected while young wives stamp their feet and whine if things aren’t going their way. I see women who are waited on hand and foot while they trash talk their husbands. I see moms talk bad about dad to the kids and undermine his authority over his own children. Men are potrayed as stupid and chauvinistic. In past generations I saw women disrespected and put down, but the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction. That is what’s wrong

 

[Paul_Fekete]

Which means that if a man finds himself married to a woman who does not want to give him last say then it is his duty to sacrifice his own ability to have a last say for the sake of the unity and contentment of his family. This is all a part of that sacrificing ones very life for ones wife thing that men are required to do. There are times when it would be much more harmful to a marriage to be executed with the format of husband getting last say than for him to allow the wife to have last say in certain things as well.

I agree! The husband needs to lead his wife as best he can with where she is at and not try to force her to be somewhere else. Just like how Jesus leads us to his truth over time a husband should lead his wife towards truth over time. The trend I see is that many men bail out when their wives resist their Spiritual leading which is wrong and not being like Jesus.

 

[mommamaree]

The ad hominem remarks that have been made recently are unacceptable.

 

[severus68]

And as a military wife with 8 kids I can tell you many many MANY of us do this. The average family size at our current base is 4 children, but I know many of us with 6+ kids. That is not a good example of compromise at all, and what’s more it is sad that it would even be thought of to do that to your spouse

Please don’t get personal.

 

[thewanderer]

This is what I see too. I see many young men trampled on and publically disrespected while young wives stamp their feet and whine if things aren’t going their way. I see women who are waited on hand and foot while they trash talk their husbands. I see moms talk bad about dad to the kids and undermine his authority over his own children. Men are potrayed as stupid and chauvinistic. In past generations I saw women disrespected and put down, but the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction. That is what’s wrong

You will not find others disagreeing with you here. It is terribly wrong when feminism is taken to an extreme that disrespects men and treats them with less dignity than they deserve. That is not the point in question here. The point in question here is do we understand Ephesians to mean that the man always has last say, or, does the man always have last say unless he’s asking his wife to sin, and the answer, according to Casti Conubii, the official Church teaching which explicitly talks of a husband’s authority over his wife, is a clear no. I will repeat this section from CC again, just in case anybody missed it.

1. Again, this subjection of wife to husband in its degree and manner may vary according to the different conditions of persons, place and time.

There is no universal set form and degree of husbands having last say over wives. According to Official Catholic teaching that just is not the way things are. So anybody who claims that there is only one universal format for the decision making process between husbands and wives is wrong. Obviously in the general sense of working together and submitting to each other and sacrificing for each other out of love for each other there is, but in the degree and manner of the wifes submission to her husband? No, CC explicitly says there is no universal in that matter.

 

[Paul_Fekete]

Funny you should say that when statistics show that infidelity is a lot more common on the husband’s end than on the wife’s.

I agree. Men are still more likely to cheat on their wife, but with more examples like the show “Sex in the city” the trend is moving in the other direction. But when you pull back the layers is it possible that you will find that the husband was left prone to tempation by his wife becasue of the way she treated him? Now that does not excuse him in any way of giving into the temptation and he alone is responsbile before God for his sin. However, is part of the responsiblity of a wife to protect the husband from adulterous tempations?

 

[Debora123]

Please don’t get personal.

The funny thing is that at the same time that I got that response from that poster, another poster sent me a PM saying this in response to my same post:

"I just read this and wanted to say congratulations for your husband getting accepted as a pilot. And thanks to your husband (and you!) for choosing to serve our country. My oldest son is in the Air Force. You as his wife and your family (and future family) have already made sacrifices and will be more making sacrifices, so I just wanted to write a little note to say thanks.

Welcome to the Air Force family!"

You win some you lose some.

 

[thewanderer]

I agree. Men are still more likely to cheat on their wife, but with more examples like the show “Sex in the city” the trend is moving in the other direction. But when you pull back the layers is it possible that you will find that the husband was left prone to tempation by his wife becasue of the way she treated him? Now that does not excuse him in any way of giving into the temptation and he alone is responsbile before God for his sin. However, is part of the responsiblity of a wife to protect the husband from adulterous tempations?

In a similar way, when you pull back the layers of a wife cheating you can find that the wife was left prone to temptation because of the way she was treated by her husband. This goes both ways.

 

[mommamaree]

I agree. Men are still more likely to cheat on their wife, but with more examples like the show “Sex in the city” the trend is moving in the other direction. But when you pull back the layers is it possible that you will find that the husband was left prone to tempation by his wife becasue of the way she treated him? Now that does not excuse him in any way of giving into the temptation and he alone is responsbile before God for his sin. However, is part of the responsiblity of a wife to protect the husband from adulterous tempations?

So when a woman cheats, it is her fault.
And when a man cheats, it is his wife’s fault, at least partly.

That is interesting calculus you got there.

There is no way that a woman can protect her husband from temptation to adultery. To imply that she has that ability or responsibility is adding insult to injury.

 

[Debora123]

I agree. Men are still more likely to cheat on their wife, but with more examples like the show “Sex in the city” the trend is moving in the other direction. But when you pull back the layers is it possible that you will find that the husband was left prone to tempation by his wife becasue of the way she treated him? Now that does not excuse him in any way of giving into the temptation and he alone is responsbile before God for his sin. However, is part of the responsiblity of a wife to protect the husband from adulterous tempations?

Ohhhhh boy… :nope:

 

[severus68]

I agree! The husband needs to lead his wife as best he can with where she is at and not try to force her to be somewhere else. Just like how Jesus leads us to his truth over time a husband should lead his wife towards truth over time. The trend I see is that many men bail out when their wives resist their Spiritual leading which is wrong and not being like Jesus.

Big difference, trying to follow Jesus and being in the position of Jesus. Both husband and wife should try to follow Jesus. The husband is not in the position of Christ who is God.

 

[Walking_Home]

I agree! The husband needs to lead his wife as best he can with where she is at and not try to force her to be somewhere else. ** Just like how Jesus leads us to his truth over time a husband should lead his wife towards truth over time**. The trend I see is that many men bail out when their wives resist their Spiritual leading which is wrong and not being like Jesus.

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What – you don’t think a woman/wife – has the capacity on her own – to come to know the truth. Again you are thinking of women/wives – as if they are children – that need the direction of an adult to know the truth.