What if a couple disagrees on more kids?

[Paul_Fekete]

Wives deserve respect too, they deserve to be treated as partners in a marriage with God given brains and abilities.

I agree!

 

[Debora123]

I agree!

…But only so far as you can make all the decisions, right?

 

[mommamaree]

My point is the one sin (not respecting your husband or wife) can add fuel to other sins (adultery). Instead of trying to lay blame I think couples should first ask what they did wrong before they point out the mistakes of their spouse.

It is not fair to the innocent spouse to assert that their inadequacy as a spouse led to their spouse committing the ultimate betrayal against them. I don’t know why this gets brought up so much.

But as EasterJoy rightly pointed out upthread, this is a tangential argument, and we are not supposed to derail the thread.

With respect to the question of the impasse the OP asked about, do you agree that the wife, since she bears the greater burden in bringing forth new life, should be able to say that she is not ready to have another child? Or do you believe that she must submit to his decision to have another baby, no matter her reservations?

 

[mommamaree]

If my husband cheats I’m going to lay blame. And I’ll do so very loudly and very quickly. Whatever mistakes I may have made do not compare to infidelity.

Just to clarify, Paul accidentally messed up the quote in his post and it is being carried through here where you are quoting him but it looks like you are quoting me. Your rebuttal is against the second paragraph, which is his words, not mine.

 

[Paul_Fekete]

---

 

[Walking_Home]

Walking_Home;11051014:

I am not the one putting this out there. God did in Ephesians 5:25
"Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, 26 in order to make her holy by cleansing her with the washing of water by the word, 27 so as to present the church to himself in splendor, without a spot or wrinkle or anything of the kind—yes, so that she may be holy and without blemish. "

God gave husbands the clear instruction make their wives holy by “washing of the water by the word”. Of course this cuts both ways in that the wife can teach the husband things about Spiritual truth! Please stop taking me out of context to paint me in a certain light. I responsed to the scenario where the huband and wife do not agree on what the Bible teaches which is why I mentioned the role of the husband to lovingly lead his wife to the truth.** I get the impression that people are putting out traps to “expose me” instead of actually wanting to hear what I have to say. **

I hope all the best for everyone and that God used this thread to challenge both husbands and wives to follow the example of Jesus Christ our Lord.​

I’d say —you’ve done the job – of exposing yourself out.

 

[Paul_Fekete]

It is not fair to the innocent spouse to assert that their inadequacy as a spouse led to their spouse committing the ultimate betrayal against them. I don’t know why this gets brought up so much.

But as EasterJoy rightly pointed out upthread, this is a tangential argument, and we are not supposed to derail the thread.

With respect to the question of the impasse the OP asked about, do you agree that the wife, since she bears the greater burden in bringing forth new life, should be able to say that she is not ready to have another child? Or do you believe that she must submit to his decision to have another baby, no matter her reservations?

As I have said before, if the wife is in danger or is being asked to put herself at great risk by getting pregnant then in no way should she submit to the will of the husband. She of course should be heard concerning getting pregnant by the husband and the husband needs to lead her to reach agreement before they proceed with getting pregnant. The husband should not force his will on getting pregnant as that could be considered rape. What i was trying to say (and not very well) is that the wife should consider that God could be asking her to trust her Him by trusting her husband.

 

[thewanderer]

No if a women cheats then it could be connected to the lack of love by the husband.

So if a woman cheats its because she doesn’t love her husband enough but if a man cheats its because his wife didn’t fulfill his needs?

You really don’t believe this works the other way around??

I’m afraid you are very naive if you think this does not work both ways.

 

[mommamaree]

As I have said before, if the wife is in danger or is being asked to put herself at great risk by getting pregnant then in no way should she submit to the will of the husband. She of course should be heard concerning getting pregnant by the husband and the husband needs to lead her to reach agreement before they proceed with getting pregnant. The husband should not force his will on getting pregnant as that could be considered rape. What i was trying to say (and not very well) is that the wife should consider that God could be asking her to trust her Him by trusting her husband.

Okay, this sounds more reasonable than some of what I understood you saying before, except the bolded part. I don’t understand why you say the husband needs to lead her to reach agreement. It still sounds as if her husband is her moral superior and we both know that is not true. So what are you really trying to say with the bolded statement?

 

[Paul_Fekete]

So if my husband hits me should my thought process be “what did I do wrong??”

If your husband hits you then you need to leave the home and get someplace safe…I get the point. You do not like what I am saying so you want me to leave this thread.

 

[Walking_Home]

My – how God is used as a tool --manipulate.

 

[mommamaree]

So if a woman cheats its because she doesn’t love her husband enough but if a man cheats its because his wife didn’t fulfill his needs?

You really don’t believe this works the other way around??

I’m afraid you are very naive if you think this does not work both ways.

Wait, look again. He was not saying what you think. To be clear, I still disagree with how he places blame, but he was saying a lack of love by the husband, not a lack of love for the husband.

 

[thewanderer]

Walking_Home;11051014:

I am not the one putting this out there. God did in Ephesians 5:25
"Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, 26 in order to make her holy by cleansing her with the washing of water by the word, 27 so as to present the church to himself in splendor, without a spot or wrinkle or anything of the kind—yes, so that she may be holy and without blemish. "

God gave husbands the clear instruction make their wives holy by “washing of the water by the word”. Of course this cuts both ways in that the wife can teach the husband things about Spiritual truth! Please stop taking me out of context to paint me in a certain light. I responsed to the scenario where the huband and wife do not agree on what the Bible teaches which is why I mentioned the role of the husband to lovingly lead his wife to the truth. I get the impression that people are more interested in painting me as a chauvinist instead of actually wanting to hear what I have to say. I hope all the best for everyone and that God used this thread to challenge both husbands and wives to follow the example of Jesus Christ our Lord.

The problem is that you continually assert things in a one-sided fashion. This implies that you think in a one-sided fashion which is contrary to Church teaching. If you would instead be willing to recognize that husbands need just as much encouragement and guidance to do the right thing as wives do, and so work on telling husbands how to behave just as much (or more, seeing as you are male your focus should probably be on what men should be doing rather than on what women should be doing) then you wouldn’t be getting this backlash. The problem is that an insistence on a one-sided focus of what women should do can lead to very problematic views about women. Everyone else here is trying to make sure that no-one reading this thread comes away with those problematic views, that is all.

 

[Paul_Fekete]

Okay, this sounds more reasonable than some of what I understood you saying before, except the bolded part. I don’t understand why you say the husband needs to lead her to reach agreement. It still sounds as if her husband is her moral superior and we both know that is not true. So what are you really trying to say with the bolded statement?

If God is calling a couple to have a child and the husband knows this but the wife is not in agreement or does not think God is telling her the same thing then he needs to work together to come to agreement first before getting pregnant.

 

[thewanderer]

If God is calling a couple to have a child and the husband knows this but the wife is not in agreement or does not think God is telling her the same thing then he needs to work together to come to agreement first before getting pregnant.

If God is calling the couple to abstain for a while and the wife knows this but the husband does not realize this and wants another child what do you believe should happen?

 

[thewanderer]

Wait, look again. He was not saying what you think. To be clear, I still disagree with how he places blame, but he was saying a lack of love by the husband, not a lack of love for the husband.

Thanks for pointing that out. My mistake.

 

[mommamaree]

If God is calling a couple to have a child and the husband knows this but the wife is not in agreement or does not think God is telling her the same thing then he needs to work together to come to agreement first before getting pregnant.

The husband can not possibly know for certain what God’s will is. Just like a wife can never know that for certain. The only things that believers may know for certain is the deposit of faith as maintained and taught by the Church. A couple must work together to discern God’s will. Neither spouse should ever claim to have the definite word on God’s will for their marriage. That is spiritually abusive.

 

[mommamaree]

Thanks for pointing that out. My mistake.

You are welcome. This is a passionate conversation, and I know that it is so easy to misunderstand. It would be regrettable if discussion was shut down because we misunderstand each other. We may all end up agreeing to disagree, but at least it will be with proper understanding.

 

[aemcpa]

The husband can not possibly know for certain what God’s will is. Just like a wife can never know that for certain. The only things that believers may know for certain is the deposit of faith as maintained and taught by the Church. A couple must work together to discern God’s will. Neither spouse should ever claim to have the definite word on God’s will for their marriage. That is spiritually abusive.

Well said. FYI, your next post will be #2,000.

 

[thewanderer]

You are welcome. This is a passionate conversation, and I know that it is so easy to misunderstand. It would be regrettable if discussion was shut down because we misunderstand each other. We may all end up agreeing to disagree, but at least it will be with proper understanding.

Absolutely. It is really easy to get carried away in a conversation like this. I do really appreciate you pointing that out.