What if a "Gay Gene" exists?

[twoangels]

Does that change how we have to look at homosexuals?

No. We have a fallen nature that we are all born with. We don’t find what God’s will is by looking at whether we were born with those desires or not. Children are not sinless. In fact, we are called to let go of our childish ways.

In studying identical twins, if one twin is homosexual, the other twin has a good chance at being heterosexual. If they were raised by seperate families, then they have a higher chance of having a different sexualities. As such, people are born with a predispostion to homosexuality.

This is true for most of anything. It can deal with your temperment as well. I may be genetically predisposed to alcoholism which may mean I need to be extra cautious with alcohol. It doesn’t guarentee that I will become an alcoholic. I may be genetically predisposed to being overweight, but that doesn’t mean I will be overweight.

Rarely are things ever purely genetic. Things I was born with may have been the result of things my mother ate when she was pregnant with me, or whether or not she took hot baths while she was pregnant or used a heat blanket while pregnant. The outside world always influences us.

The way it would appear to me is that if homosexuality is genetic, then it is not chosen or caused by outside factors. Would that mean that God has made someone gay?

God is all knowing. The moment he created Adam, he knew Adam would sin. He created Adam knowing even before Adam sinned that He would need to save humanity. He already knew He would send Christ to save us from our sins. He already had that plan. Does that mean that He created Adam to be a sinner and that it was his will for Adam to sin? Theologically it was His permissive will. God did not create Adam to sin. He didn’t destine Adam to sin. The same is true with homosexuals. It is not God’s intention that homosexuals enter into romantic relationships. But he creates them knowing all of their life choices. He knows before we even exist what all our life choices will be and whether or not we will be saved.

He is like a parent who knows ahead of time that his unborn child has a genetic abnormality that will cause the child to die in his infancy. The parent knows watching the child suffer and die will be very difficult, but the parent loves the child so much that he allows the child to have its life. After all, He creates us for our own sake, not to satisfy something He is lacking. He does not covet after us. His love for us is not self focused because he lacks nothing. He does not need us. He simply loves us purely, again as I said, for our own sake. He sees that regardless of our life choices, his creation is still good and that his creation of humanity is still very good. (as Genesis says)

 

[twoangels]

How interesting that you trust a “college level class” more than you trust the Church.

This seems to be an argument that faith has more authority than reason and that whenever our beliefs contradict what reason tells us, we should reject reason. This is not what the Church teaches. Struggling with understanding these issues and how they line up with Church teaching can lead to a clarification on how the Holy Spirit protects the Church, an exploration of history and the further seeking of truth. We should not just bury our heads in the sand when what we believe is contradicted. We should seek after the truth always and not be afraid of it guiding us for Christ is the way, the truth, and the life. A lot of times its just incomplete information that takes time to sort through. Don’t insult that struggle.

 

[fix]

Does that change how we have to look at homosexuals?

The way it would appear to me is that if homosexuality is genetic, then it is not chosen or caused by outside factors. Would that mean that God has made someone gay? And if so, does that mean we have to acknowledge that homosexuality is natural, since how could we question the intentions of God if he chooses to make people gay?

Edit: I don’t intend to make all my posts here about homosexuality. Just an issue that has raised a lot of questions concerning my faith.

God has an ordaining will and a permitting will. God does not ordain disordered inclinations. God does permit suffering. God ordained male and female. God permits many things in our fallen world.

 

[Orogeny]

its ok with me if you don’t write back. i really don’t think you can rebutt me anyway. I know my reasoning is a lock for the win.

How old are you? You had mentioned college classes, but you are acting like a 13 year old. If you want dialogue, you might want to drop the arrogance.

Peace

Tim

 

[twoangels]

the church does not have to allow homosexual marriage in their own church. however, they cannot prohibit it on a secular level because the secular level does not acknowledge sacramental marriage and the church does not grant sacramental marriage to secular marriages nor marriages of other faiths. so the point is moot and my argument does stand after all.

This is not an issue of sacramental marriage. Non sacramental marriages are called natural marriages. Natural marriage has a procreative purpose. When we talk about Sacramental marriage, we are only acknowledging that Christ elevated natural marriage to that of a sacrament. He gives us graces to help us live out our matrimonial vow to grow in holiness. It becomes our vocation of service that helps us on our road to Heaven. Sacramental marriage is not granted to people by the Church. It is simply the reality that when two baptized individuals validly marry, their marriage takes on a sacramental natural. These individuals do not have to be Catholic. They simply have to be validly baptized individuals. If one person is not baptized, it is not sacramental until the non-baptized member is baptized.

When it comes to couples who are Catholic who marry outside of the Church, their marriages simply do not exist. It is not that they are in natural marriages. Civilly they have signed a contract, but because they are also bound by Canon Law as Catholics. It gets confusing in its language because the State does not recognize canon law, so legally they are categorized as married, though naturally they’re not married. Its easy to just confuse sacramental marriage with “oh the priest blesses the marriage.”

But in the end, the reality of gay marriage is this as well. Even if all 50 states legalize gay marriage, the objective reality is that these individuals are not married. It would be like if the state decided that sexual relationship or sexual love was not a componant of marriage. It would be if we just decided that rather than adoption, we decided to have children not biologically related to their adoptive family marry their adopted family. We wouldn’t be expecting a sexual encounter. We just might have culturally started to embrace wedding traditions surrounding adoption and wanted to emphasis the child’s consent to be our children. The rhetoric surrounding the issue might involve treating children as property. “Children should marry their parents to express their love and consent to be their children. They shouldn’t be treated as property.”

Now I don’t think that is going to happen because so much feminist thought still sees the history of marriage as embarrassing and sexist. They often compare marriage to the selling of cattle. I can’t imagine someone arguing that marriage is a more dignified term than adoption. But by expanding adoption to unions outside of what has been traditionally understood as marriage, we lose our word for marriage. That’s why today we tend to add the adjective “traditional” to marriage to clarify our meaning. However “Sacramental” is not an adjective that adequately distinquishes between “traditional marriage” and what we like to call marriage today.

 

[buffalo]

Humans have many deleterious mutations. We are all called to a higher moral code and behavior.

 

[ahs]

Does that change how we have to look at homosexuals?

The way it would appear to me is that if homosexuality is genetic, then it is not chosen or caused by outside factors. Would that mean that God has made someone gay? And if so, does that mean we have to acknowledge that homosexuality is natural, since how could we question the intentions of God if he chooses to make people gay?

Edit: I don’t intend to make all my posts here about homosexuality. Just an issue that has raised a lot of questions concerning my faith.

I really like the two answers below:

Suppose there’s a genetic component to anger and having a short fuse, but that doesn’t forgive someone for acting on their impulse and lashing out. Suppose there’s a genetic component to being a big bully and making everyone else frightened of them; again that doesn’t forgive those who are compelled to act like bullies.

Humans have many deleterious mutations. We are all called to a higher moral code and behavior.

 

[po18guy]

Humans have many deleterious mutations. We are all called to a higher moral code and behavior.

Well said. Those with cancer suffer from a genetic mutation within certain cells of their bodies. Should they then seek out the fulness of cancer? Or is it more life-affirming to resist the effects of that mutation?

We retain the ability to say yes or no to any thought or action.

 

[buffalo]

Well said. Those with cancer suffer from a genetic mutation within certain cells of their bodies. Should they then seek out the fulness of cancer? Or is it more life-affirming to resist the effects of that mutation?

We retain the ability to say yes or no to any thought or action.

There is another aspect to this. If a mutation was found should we invest in research to thwart the mutation? If a pill was found would sales boom?

 

[po18guy]

There is another aspect to this. If a mutation was found should we invest in research to thwart the mutation? If a pill was found would sales boom?

Our culture would assert that the mutation was a product of the natural law, and should be respected - conveniently ignoring that homosexual activity opposes that same natural law. Disobedience always seeks justification.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

What is a gay gene DOESN’T exist?

I expect they prefer that it does exist. Then they can blame sodomy on nature rather than themselves.

 

[voctor09]

Suppose there’s a genetic component to anger and having a short fuse, but that doesn’t forgive someone for acting on their impulse and lashing out. Suppose there’s a genetic component to being a big bully and making everyone else frightened of them; again that doesn’t forgive those who are compelled to act like bullies.

My thoughts on this and every other “What if” example regarding terrible things like anger, rape, alcoholism, etc. is that the fulfillment of such desires physically hurts others or oneself.

The fulfillment of homosexuality would be a life-partner of the same gender, someone with whom the homosexual would love the same way I would love my wife. And my thinking is that if there is real love between two people (hetero or homo) then that love is a manifestation of God. And if we can somehow prove scientifically God has hardwired people to hetero AND homo love, then that love is what God intended all along and we’re all terribly wrong for discriminating.

 

[voctor09]

While same-sex attraction is not a choice for people who were born with it, or find themselves struggling with it as they reach adulthood, homosexual behavior is a choice that can certainly be suppressed if one wishes to lead a sinless life of chastity as called by God and the Church. Those with deeply ingrained disordered desires for pedophilia or bestiality or adultery, or masturbation are likewise called to contain those urges, and seek forgiveness and repentance if they do act upon them, so it is the same.

I actually fear what will happen to the unborn if a “gay gene” is discovered. Will selective abortion be chosen for parents who don’t want a gay child? This would be a tragedy in itself if gay people experience a holocaust of their own.

You make several good points. I think we can agree that homosexual behavior is not a choice. The question then becomes is it morally right to choose to act to be gay? My argument is that if God has deliberately made someone gay, then yes, it should be right because the natural fulfillment of two homosexual people would be love just like two hetero people

Your other point is troubling, but I think has more closely related to whether or not abortion should be legal. If we eventually get to the point where we can abort the unborn based on undesirable characteristics, then I think we have no hope as a society.

But to further the point, the reason homosexuality would be deemed undesirable hypothetically the cause for abortion is because we as a society have deemed it undesirable to begin with. And unfortunately I think a lot of well intentioned Christians are to blame for our stigma of homosexuality that leads to gay people killing themselves today and could eventually lead to the scenario you describe.

 

[Kc906]

You make several good points. I think we can agree that homosexual behavior is not a choice.

But to further the point, the reason homosexuality would be deemed undesirable hypothetically the cause for abortion is because we as a society have deemed it undesirable to begin with. And unfortunately I think a lot of well intentioned Christians are to blame for our stigma of homosexuality that leads to gay people killing themselves today and could eventually lead to the scenario you describe.

I heard a really wise saying on the Radio a few months back which really helped my stance on the issue. If there were really a Homosexual Gene that “caused” people to be Gay (born a Homosexual,) then there would not be 1 recorded incident in history of a Homosexual human being suddenly changing their ways and views and marrying someone of the opposite sex.

If it is not a choice, then everyone who was born a homosexual would always be a homosexual, there would not be any exceptions. There are plenty of conversion stories of course; of people who lived and practiced a Homosexual lifestyle and suddenly stopped at some point in their life.

I for example was born a Heterosexual; I have not had 1 Homosexual experience in my life. If I went out tomorrow and suddenly “had relations” with a person of my same gender, that would be my choice. In the eyes and words of God in scripture, he declares the “homosexual act” a sin; it is a sexual sin (life Fornication, Masturbation, etc.) We should all love and pray for any people that practice this lifestyle, because it is openly disobeying the wish of the Almighty.

 

[Kc906]

You make several good points. I think we can agree that homosexual behavior is not a choice.

But to further the point, the reason homosexuality would be deemed undesirable hypothetically the cause for abortion is because we as a society have deemed it undesirable to begin with. And unfortunately I think a lot of well intentioned Christians are to blame for our stigma of homosexuality that leads to gay people killing themselves today and could eventually lead to the scenario you describe.

I heard a really wise saying on the radio a few months back; at least I thought it was. If there were really a Homosexual Gene that “caused” people to be Gay (born a Homosexual,) then there would not be 1 recorded incident in history of a Homosexual human being suddenly changing their ways and views and marrying someone of the opposite sex.

If it is not a choice, then everyone who was born a homosexual would always be a homosexual, there would not be any exceptions. There are plenty of conversion stories of course; of people who lived and practiced a Homosexual lifestyle and suddenly stopped at some point in their life.

I for example was born a Heterosexual; I have not had 1 Homosexual experience in my life. If I went out tomorrow and suddenly “had relations” with a person of my same gender, that would be my choice. In the eyes and words of God in scripture, he declares the “homosexual act” a sin; it is a sexual sin (life Fornication, Masturbation, etc.) We should all love and pray for any people that practice this lifestyle, because it is openly disobeying the wish of the Almighty.

 

[buffalo]

You make several good points. I think we can agree that homosexual behavior is not a choice. The question then becomes is it morally right to choose to act to be gay? My argument is that if God has deliberately made someone gay, then yes, it should be right because the natural fulfillment of two homosexual people would be love just like two hetero people

Your other point is troubling, but I think has more closely related to whether or not abortion should be legal. If we eventually get to the point where we can abort the unborn based on undesirable characteristics, then I think we have no hope as a society.

But to further the point, the reason homosexuality would be deemed undesirable hypothetically the cause for abortion is because we as a society have deemed it undesirable to begin with. And unfortunately I think a lot of well intentioned Christians are to blame for our stigma of homosexuality that leads to gay people killing themselves today and could eventually lead to the scenario you describe.

God did not create Adam and Eve and Steve. Adam and Eve only, male and female He created them.

After the fall sin and corruption entered the world. God does not create someone homosexual.

 

[PumpkinSeed]

There is no such thing as a gay ‘gene’.

However whether people are born gay or not, the church has called them to chastity. They can still be saved and still be in the church but they cannot get married or have sex.

I wonder though, what does the church think about gays adopting? Do they allow that? Just curious.

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

What if a “Gay Gene” exists?

Then that means there would have to be a “Pedophile Gene” and a “Zoophile Gene”.

In reality, these things begin as thoughts that become temptations, that turn into fantasies, that become actions, that grow into habits, that become obsessions, that end up as addictions, that warp the intellect into demanding legitimacy, and thus the need to parade in public in form of self assurance built upon the lies promoted by the massive propaganda machine called Hollywood.

But no baby was born addicted to gambling, just as no child is born a criminal. The culprit are outside influences. Thus the reason why the vast majority of men in prison come from broken families with no father figures or positive male role models.

Every single person on this planet had a mother; and a loving masculine/feminine, father/mother influence upon a child has everything to do with how they will grow up to be as adults. But even then, there are dangers and pitfalls, as there are so many bad influences that can enslave human nature which has a weakness for sin. Thus the importance of living in the state of grace. If not, you are in danger of demonic enslavement.

But different sins affect different people in different ways. For example, pornography affects all men in some way or another. For some, it pushes them into promiscuity and premarital sex; for others it leads to adultery and broken homes; and for others it leads to a path of becoming a rapist and even a serial killer. Here is a video of serial killer Ted Bundy warning about the harm of pornography and how it perverted his mind into becoming the person he became…

 

[gus]

Remember the Law and Order episode were a Dr not only discovers a gay gene but a way to find it in the fetis.
The premise is parents with gays fetis would choose to abort. Especially since families are so small today
It would be a gay genocide. So the Dr was killed by his gay brother to prevent the discovery from getting out.
So discovery of a gene might not be in the best interests of the GL community
Interesting premise

 

[Elizabeth502]

No evidence exists for a homosexual gene – no matter how many times this subject repeatedly gets introduced on this discussion forum (Hint: several times a year) by posters who apparently have difficulty using the search function.

The bigger issue is that human beings are not automatons. Behavior involves the will; we are not mechanical. Even scientists understand this – not to mention Catholics educated well in their faith. Human beings have not devolved to the level of the main characters in the film, The Clockwork Orange (yet). Even psychological compulsions do not make particular behaviors inevitable. Compulsions themselves are not mandates; believe it or not – in this age in which even too many people who profess to be Catholics worship Almighty Science – we are not controlled by our inclinations, temptations, attractions, preferences, or genes.