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grannymh
Guest
Now I understand. We are talking about a speculative theory and** not** specific Catholic doctrines.
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centurionguard
Guest
vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19651207_gaudium-et-spes_en.html
In Gaudium et Spes, that is The Pastoral Constitution On the Church in the modern World, Vatican II, December 1965 states in paragraph 13 that:
“Although he was made by God in a state of holiness, from the very onset of his history man abused his liberty, at the urging of the Evil One. Man set himself against God and sought to attain his goal apart from God. Although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, but their senseless minds were darkened and they served the creature rather than the Creator. What divine revelation makes known to us agrees with experience. Examining his heart, man finds that he has inclinations toward evil too, and is engulfed by manifold ills which cannot come from his good Creator. Often refusing to acknowledge God as his beginning, man has disrupted also his proper relationship to his own ultimate goal as well as his whole relationship toward himself and others and all created things.”
A little further on into the document we read in paragraph 22 the following:
The truth is that only in the mystery of the incarnate Word does the mystery of man take on light. For Adam, the first man, was a figure of Him Who was to come, namely Christ the Lord. Christ, the final Adam, by the revelation of the mystery of the Father and His love, fully reveals man to man himself and makes his supreme calling clear. It is not surprising, then, that in Him all the aforementioned truths find their root and attain their crown.
Also Vatican II’s decree, Dei Verbum, The Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation, paragraph 3, promulgated by Pope Paul VI in 1965 states the following:
God, who through the Word creates all things (see John 1:3) and keeps them in existence, gives men an enduring witness to Himself in created realities (see Rom. 1:19-20). Planning to make known the way of heavenly salvation, He went further and from the start manifested Himself to our first parents. Then after their fall His promise of redemption aroused in them the hope of being saved (see Gen. 3:15) and from that time on He ceaselessly kept the human race in His care, to give eternal life to those who perseveringly do good in search of salvation (see Rom. 2:6-7).
In Gaudium et Spes, that is The Pastoral Constitution On the Church in the modern World, Vatican II, December 1965 states in paragraph 13 that:
“Although he was made by God in a state of holiness, from the very onset of his history man abused his liberty, at the urging of the Evil One. Man set himself against God and sought to attain his goal apart from God. Although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, but their senseless minds were darkened and they served the creature rather than the Creator. What divine revelation makes known to us agrees with experience. Examining his heart, man finds that he has inclinations toward evil too, and is engulfed by manifold ills which cannot come from his good Creator. Often refusing to acknowledge God as his beginning, man has disrupted also his proper relationship to his own ultimate goal as well as his whole relationship toward himself and others and all created things.”
A little further on into the document we read in paragraph 22 the following:
The truth is that only in the mystery of the incarnate Word does the mystery of man take on light. For Adam, the first man, was a figure of Him Who was to come, namely Christ the Lord. Christ, the final Adam, by the revelation of the mystery of the Father and His love, fully reveals man to man himself and makes his supreme calling clear. It is not surprising, then, that in Him all the aforementioned truths find their root and attain their crown.
Also Vatican II’s decree, Dei Verbum, The Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation, paragraph 3, promulgated by Pope Paul VI in 1965 states the following:
God, who through the Word creates all things (see John 1:3) and keeps them in existence, gives men an enduring witness to Himself in created realities (see Rom. 1:19-20). Planning to make known the way of heavenly salvation, He went further and from the start manifested Himself to our first parents. Then after their fall His promise of redemption aroused in them the hope of being saved (see Gen. 3:15) and from that time on He ceaselessly kept the human race in His care, to give eternal life to those who perseveringly do good in search of salvation (see Rom. 2:6-7).
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LucyLight
Guest
Yes, that is all that it is. Though, he does back up what he says with very good reasoning and his parallels between the new and old testament ring true and are very interesting.
Take for example his explanation of why the serpent is actually a dragon,
*"The Hebrew word used to describe the “serpent,” nahash, implies something much more deadly.
Throughout the Old Testament nahash is used to refer to powerful, even gigantic, evil creatures. Isaiah calls the nahash a sea dragon, the great Leviathan (see Isaiah 27:1). Job also uses nahash to depict terrible sea monsters (see Job 26:13).
This is clearly the image the Book of Revelation has in mind when it describes “a huge red dragon” in the heavens, “the huge dragon, the ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, who deceived the whole world” (see Revelation 12:3,9)."*
If you want to read a summary of the explanation from the book you can find it here at the Pope Paul Center for Biblical Theology.
salvationhistory.com/studies/lesson/genesis_creation_fall_and_promise#III.B.
Btw, I love how he speculates that Mary Magdalene in mistaking Jesus for a gardener is also a reference to Adam who was the keeper and protector of the garden.
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grannymh
Guest
Coincidence?
Off line I am in contact with the St. Paul Center for Biblical Theology. Your link may be why I need to be off line for a bit.
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LucyLight
Guest
What’s a coincidence? Theologians are free to speculate about this stuff and you certainly don’t have to agree. I’m confused:shrug:
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JRKH
Guest
I think she was simply noting the coincidence that she was on the St Paul website and you happened to post a link to that same site…Nothing more than that I suspect…
Peace
James
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LucyLight
Guest
Got it, thanks
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TimothyH
Guest
po18guy
Well-known member
I view Peter walking on water as agreeing with this. When his faith was focused and strong, he was able to step out of the boat and walk. When he had doubt, he sank, yet the Lord still saved him when he cried out. He was distracted by the wind and waves, just as Adam and Eve were distracted by the serpent. Both failed the test. In this context, it is impossible to separate faith from trust, as I see it.
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Marc_Anthony
Guest
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