What if all the churches were gone

[Zooey]

What did they do? The one thing they salvaged was the rosary. They used it to teach the basic prayers and beliefs. .

As long as I have twine, I can make rosaries for people to pray on. If there is no twine, I will knot string. If there is no string, I can tie knots in shoe laces…
But I know that I am a terrible coward about pain. I fear what I might say or do, to avoid it…
I take comfort in the words of St Joan of Arc, who, when shown the instruments of torture, said simply, that she was afraid of pain, & would say anything to make it stop. But she added, “When it stops, I will say what I said before the pain ever began”.
I know I am:nope: no saint. Certainly:nope: not a Joan of Arc. But when the pain stops…“I will say what I said before”. And I will go on tying knots in bits of string, twine, anything, & passing them along to every believer that I meet.
I pray to God that He gives me the strength to persevere.

 

[lumendelumine]

Lily,
I said those folks I mentioned by name were notable exceptions. They did not present a different face for the public than they did in private.
I was referring to those thousands who did remain in England and remained in positions of power by keeping their faiths secret. And lived to tell the tale.
But what I was wondering is how folks on this thread feel they could deal with the oppression in the present time if Christianity was banned? Things like watching their children abused for their faith if indeed they are not hiding their faiths.
Or how they would cope in public where they could not be seen as Catholics? Do they just intend to walk out into the streets yelling “Jesus is Lord” and wait for the torturers to make martyrs of them? Or try to live quietly in a society that will expect them to pray when they pray, follow their book, accept their god?
Martyrdom requires committment as we all know. I just don’t know how many of us are really up to it.

There were always Catholics in England who refused to go to the Anglican service. Though they were severely persecuted initially (that was when most of the English population was bullied into becoming Anglican), later on, the state was content with making them pay a fine. Because only richer people could afford it, most families who always remained Catholics (recusants) were aristocrats, because they could afford to pay this regular fine. The whole 17th and 18th century through (maybe with the exception of Cromwell’s time), Catholics who did not do anything “punishable” (like hiding priests or having Masses in their houses) were not actively persecuted - rather, the fine they payed was a welcome income to the state’s finances!

Also, don’t forget that King James II. was himself a Catholic - and even after the so-called “Glorious Revolution” where James II. had to flee and was replaced by the Protestant William of Orange, Catholic aristocrats were present in the royal court (though they did not have the right to take any office).

The lady the heroine of Alexander Pope’s satirical poem The Rape of the Lock is modelled on was also a Catholic lady in Queen Anne’s court (early 18th century) for example…

 

[Padre_Ambrogio]

You probably wouldnt have to they would just cave under the terror.

Let’s not be so ready to sell the skins of lukewarm Christians before they are really put to the test…

An example from China:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Icon of the Orthodox martyrs of the Boxer Rebellion
Source: Holy Transfiguration Monastery
orthodox.cn/images/chinesemartyrs-htm.jpg

The Orthodox Christian community of Peking in 1900 was as lukewarm, pathetic and nominal as you could expect from the worst possible Christians. They had been granted relative freedom just because they were said to descend from Russian Cossack families (some of them did, but most were simply descendants of Chinese converts who puported to be “Russians”). They did not take their faith very seriously… if at all. Several complaints lamented their ignorance, weakness in faith, tendency towards pagan customs, drunkenness…

…yet, when persecution came, their response was truly amazing. Among the worst tortures and suffering, they produced 222 martyrs (which is in itself astounding, for a community of about 1,000 which suffered around 300 casualties).

Even in the gloomiest hour, it’s not all as dark as it may seem. :getholy:

 

[LilyM]

Let’s not be so ready to sell the skins of lukewarm Christians before they are really put to the test…

An example from China:

http://www.orthodox.cn/images/chinesemartyrs-htm_sm.jpg
Icon of the Orthodox martyrs of the Boxer Rebellion
Source: Holy Transfiguration Monastery
orthodox.cn/images/chinesemartyrs-htm.jpg

The Orthodox Christian community of Peking in 1900 was as lukewarm, pathetic and nominal as you could expect from the worst possible Christians. They had been granted relative freedom just because they were said to descend from Russian Cossack families (some of them did, but most were simply descendants of Chinese converts who puported to be “Russians”). They did not take their faith very seriously… if at all. Several complaints lamented their ignorance, weakness in faith, tendency towards pagan customs, drunkenness…

…yet, when persecution came, their response was truly amazing. Among the worst tortures and suffering, they produced 222 martyrs (which is in itself astounding, for a community of about 1,000 which suffered around 300 casualties).

Even in the gloomiest hour, it’s not all as dark as it may seem. :getholy:

What an inspirational story - thanks padre

 

[mark_a]

Let’s not be so ready to sell the skins of lukewarm Christians before they are really put to the test…

An example from China:

http://www.orthodox.cn/images/chinesemartyrs-htm_sm.jpg
Icon of the Orthodox martyrs of the Boxer Rebellion
Source: Holy Transfiguration Monastery
orthodox.cn/images/chinesemartyrs-htm.jpg

The Orthodox Christian community of Peking in 1900 was as lukewarm, pathetic and nominal as you could expect from the worst possible Christians. They had been granted relative freedom just because they were said to descend from Russian Cossack families (some of them did, but most were simply descendants of Chinese converts who puported to be “Russians”). They did not take their faith very seriously… if at all. Several complaints lamented their ignorance, weakness in faith, tendency towards pagan customs, drunkenness…

…yet, when persecution came, their response was truly amazing. Among the worst tortures and suffering, they produced 222 martyrs (which is in itself astounding, for a community of about 1,000 which suffered around 300 casualties).

Even in the gloomiest hour, it’s not all as dark as it may seem. :getholy:

This is an encouraging story.

Its good to know that someone like myself who has never had his faith really tested might actually do the right thing.

Being tested by temptation is one thing, but being tested by oppression, torture, hatred, etc. is more than many could stand. I hope I don’t find out, but who knows.

 

[Zooey]

Let’s not be so ready to sell the skins of lukewarm Christians before they are really put to the test…

An example from China:

http://www.orthodox.cn/images/chinesemartyrs-htm_sm.jpg
Icon of the Orthodox martyrs of the Boxer Rebellion
Source: Holy Transfiguration Monastery
orthodox.cn/images/chinesemartyrs-htm.jpg

The Orthodox Christian community of Peking in 1900 was as lukewarm, pathetic and nominal as you could expect from the worst possible Christians. They had been granted relative freedom just because they were said to descend from Russian Cossack families (some of them did, but most were simply descendants of Chinese converts who puported to be “Russians”). They did not take their faith very seriously… if at all. Several complaints lamented their ignorance, weakness in faith, tendency towards pagan customs, drunkenness…

…yet, when persecution came, their response was truly amazing. Among the worst tortures and suffering, they produced 222 martyrs (which is in itself astounding, for a community of about 1,000 which suffered around 300 casualties).

Even in the gloomiest hour, it’s not all as dark as it may seem. :getholy:

“After these things, I looked & behold, a great multitude which no one could number…standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice: ‘Salvation belongs to our God Who sits on ther throne, and to the Lamb’!..
These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes & made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore they are before the throne of God, & serve Him day & night in His temple. And He Who sits on the throne will dwell among them.
They shall neither hunger nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; for the Lamb Who is in the midst of the throne shall shepherd them & lead them to living fountains of waters.
And God will wipe every tear from their eyes.”

“Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the living God, have mercy on me, a sinner”.