What if God doesn't exist

[Warrenton]

You say these things but I don’t know any person that went from believer to atheist that has done anything like this at all.

Ah, but this is merely a question of individual courage, of taking one’s beliefs to their logical conclusion.

 

[Warrenton]

I believe we are moving away from Christian values, which isn’t **necessarily ** a bad thing. I think the acceptance of gays is a good thing but the super sexuality of our children is a bad thing.

And I don’t think that the way society is moving has much to do with more people rejecting God to be honest.

I fear you are confusing acceptance with capitalizing on people. No one accepts homosexuality. Many use it for their various ulterior motives.

But to the latter point, we agree. It would perhaps be better if we had more atheists, because eventually society might revert to something like stoicism, which it least is pragmatic. The people are moving away from the Catholic Church, which results in the visible changes we can observe in society. But lots of people cling to a vague spirituality which preserves some of the altruistic features of Catholicism, although in an indistinct and unsystematic way.

 

[Luke_K]

Let me just start by saying that this is a complete hypothetical. It is impossible to prove that something does not exist, so technically it would be impossible to disprove God, but what if somehow it was proven to you God didn’t exist…how would your life change?

Would you morality change if you somehow knew for a fact that God didn’t exist? How would your life change? Would your life be better? Would it be worse?

Also, just so you know I’m not looking for “answers” to this question about God’s existence being truth and there is no point in thinking about what if God didn’t exist, etc. This is a completely hypothetical and if you can’t play along then feel free not to reply.

Anyway, I already know how my life would change because I recently lost my faith in God. I can’t say for sure that God does not exist, but it seems much more likely that there is no God. To be honest, my life really hasn’t changed much though. I still have the same set of morals as I did when I did believe in God. Then again my morals didn’t line up with the church at that time either. I would think things like condom use would be taken off the immoral list without God because without the existence of God condoms cease to be immoral.

Anyway, what do you guys think?

I would cease believing in objective morality, because morality would only exist in the minds of humans (who once did not exist). My actions would only be restrained by my desire to live in functional society, which necessitates that people cannot do whatever they want. I would probably indulge in any acts that made me feel good and didn’t directly hurt other people, such as lust.

I would still believe in the “golden rule” to a degree, because it makes practical sense. I’m sure however that I would end up rationalizing selfish behavior in many situations when I felt like it. Fortunately however, God does exist and through his grace I have learned that hedonism is a form of slavery rather than freedom.

 

[Warrenton]

Would you morality change if you somehow knew for a fact that God didn’t exist? How would your life change? Would your life be better? Would it be worse?

I am happy to play this game!

Yes, my morals would change. My desire would become the governing principal. Whatever I want, I would do.

This would without question affect my life. I doubt whether I would stay married, or if I stayed married, I doubt I would remain faithful.

I would likely not remit my taxes legally.

I would certainly take revenge when it suited my desires to do so.

Now, let us take the game to the next level.

Let us assume that everyone disbelieved. What then? Do you think history is any guide?

 

[John21652]

I am happy to play this game!

Yes, my morals would change. My desire would become the governing principal. Whatever I want, I would do.

This would without question affect my life. I doubt whether I would stay married, or if I stayed married, I doubt I would remain faithful.

I would likely not remit my taxes legally.

I would certainly take revenge when it suited my desires to do so.

Now, let us take the game to the next level.

Let us assume that everyone disbelieved. What then? Do you think history is any guide?

As people abandoned their values, with hedonism prevailing and with society being held together only by someone powerful, making strong and repressive laws, other nations being kept at bay only through threat of force, people living in fear, I’d don a robe and wander the Earth saying “repent”, “repent”, “there is a better way”. I’d attract lots and lots of followers, and become very famous.

There, world fixed!

 

[momor]

I think my morality would become completely utilitarian and I would support those things which I thought were a benefit to me and reject those I thought were a waste and kept me from getting / doing what I wanted. Pretty much like the moral relativity we see among so many people today.

As a society, we would devolve into morality as the lowest common denominator. If others are doing it it’s OK for me too.

 

[Thoughtfulone]

Ummmm, it’s pretty scary how selfish everyone here would become if you believed that God didn’t exist, as if none of you have any sort of compassion or love for your fellow man whatsoever.

When I see a homeless person, or a kid on the news whose parents made him live in a dog cage for 8 years, I am moved to pity and compassion, not because I think it’s the right thing to do or because I’m thinking, “God would want me to feel sympathy”, but because we are all human beings and I don’t want to see anyone suffer. I am faithful to my husband, not because I am constrained by some vows I said in a Church, but because I love him and I want to be. I love my son and make sacrifices for him because I love him more than life itself, not because I think it will get me into Heaven.

Now, you could make the argument that if God REALLY didn’t exist that we would all be soulless animals with zero conscience, but I think the intent of the question was more along the lines of wondering what we would do if we personally didn’t believe in God, and personally, I wouldn’t change much.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

It is impossible to postulate what life would be like if God did not exist.

First there would be no morality.

There would be no Good.

There would be no Love.

There would be no way that we would have anything the comes from God, like basic human rights.

It is impossible to know.

 

[Curious_Seed]

Let me just start by saying that this is a complete hypothetical. It is impossible to prove that something does not exist, so technically it would be impossible to disprove God, but what if somehow it was proven to you God didn’t exist…how would your life change?

Would you morality change if you somehow knew for a fact that God didn’t exist? How would your life change? Would your life be better? Would it be worse?

Also, just so you know I’m not looking for “answers” to this question about God’s existence being truth and there is no point in thinking about what if God didn’t exist, etc. This is a completely hypothetical and if you can’t play along then feel free not to reply.

Anyway, I already know how my life would change because I recently lost my faith in God. I can’t say for sure that God does not exist, but it seems much more likely that there is no God. To be honest, my life really hasn’t changed much though. I still have the same set of morals as I did when I did believe in God. Then again my morals didn’t line up with the church at that time either. I would think things like condom use would be taken off the immoral list without God because without the existence of God condoms cease to be immoral.

Anyway, what do you guys think?

:idea:

What if God does not exist cannot be speculated.

What would it be without God: it would be what it is now says the atheist.

What would it be with God: it would be what it is now says the theist.

Until a thing is shown to exist, there can be no speculation of what would be, if it didn’t.

If you define God and state conditions of existence, then non-existence becomes contemplative: but, not until.

 

[commoncents]

The moral breakdown I said I would undergo is internal. You very likely wouldn’t know if it happened to one of your friends, because they wouldn’t tell you. A nihilistic hedonist would still treat people nicely if it suited them to do so.

The fact of the matter is that many non-believers believe that morality is “purely personal”—there are no absolutes; everyone comes up with his own rules. By saying that people can have whatever values they want, one is by extension also saying that people can do whatever they want, since anyone can legitimately adjust his morals to fit his lifestyle.

Of course, practically no-one will admit he thinks this way, since practically everyone finds the idea of murderous psychopaths, greedy corporations and neo-Nazis “doing whatever they want” icky and scary.

OK, so someone’s moral breakdown is internal but it doesn’t show externally? Is that even a moral breakdown then? If someone helps someone because they want to avoid eternal punishment and receive eternal happiness and someone else helps someone just because they want to help someone, who is being more noble?

Bottom line is that if someone has an internal breakdown of morals it will certainly show externally…unless the person is acting like a good person to fool others and screw them over, but that is quite far fetched. My friends that have gone from believers to atheists, including myself, have not become worse people morally. For the most part, it just doesn’t work like that.

 

[commoncents]

Ah, but this is merely a question of individual courage, of taking one’s beliefs to their logical conclusion.

What logical conclusion? That without God the only thing you should concentrate on is your own happiness at the expense of others? Have you ever heard of empathy?

 

[commoncents]

Let us assume that everyone disbelieved. What then? Do you think history is any guide?

I personally think the world would be a better place. If no one believed in God or an afterlife suicide bombing would pretty much be out of the question. Many disputes around the world would pretty much be resolved.

 

[momor]

What logical conclusion? That without God the only thing you should concentrate on is your own happiness at the expense of others? Have you ever heard of empathy?

Don’t forget that you are a product of your upbringing and you once had faith in God and you live in a society whose laws come from Judeo-Christian morality. If none of these had happened because there is no God, you would be the product of a very different and selfish society. In fact, without a concept of God I think we would act pretty much like animals.

 

[commoncents]

Ummmm, it’s pretty scary how selfish everyone here would become if you believed that God didn’t exist, as if none of you have any sort of compassion or love for your fellow man whatsoever.

When I see a homeless person, or a kid on the news whose parents made him live in a dog cage for 8 years, I am moved to pity and compassion, not because I think it’s the right thing to do or because I’m thinking, “God would want me to feel sympathy”, but because we are all human beings and I don’t want to see anyone suffer. I am faithful to my husband, not because I am constrained by some vows I said in a Church, but because I love him and I want to be. I love my son and make sacrifices for him because I love him more than life itself, not because I think it will get me into Heaven.

Now, you could make the argument that if God REALLY didn’t exist that we would all be soulless animals with zero conscience, but I think the intent of the question was more along the lines of wondering what we would do if we personally didn’t believe in God, and personally, I wouldn’t change much.

EXACTLY. And to be honest I think that most people are like this as well…or they are legitimately sociopaths. Anyone that says they would completely change their outlook on life if they didn’t believe in God and treat others horribly is either lying or a sociopath…and I like to give people the benefit of the doubt and just think they are lying.

To be honest, many of these people don’t even know they are lying, but as someone that went from a believer in God to a non believer I can tell you that my morals have not changed in the least. IMO the golden rule is still the best moral system and should be followed by everyone. If you legitimately only do nice things because you think some supreme being is watching you and that belief is the difference between you being a nice and noble person and you being a horrible person, you are a complete sociopath and I hope that you never lose your faith.

 

[slywakka250]

is God does not exist, it doesn’t change the fact that I exist, since even in this hypothetical I am here answering it. If you are reading this, then you can be pretty sure that YOU exist. existence begs the question, WHY? why do I exist? There is some “meaning” in existence itself, and I would continue to try to find just what that meaning is…I would still do the things I like to do, and enjoy life to the fullest! and live and dream and love…

 

[commoncents]

Don’t forget that you are a product of your upbringing and you once had faith in God and you live in a society whose laws come from Judeo-Christian morality. If none of these had happened because there is no God, you would be the product of a very different and selfish society. In fact, without a concept of God I think we would act pretty much like animals.

I am sure that you have lots of evidence to suggest we would act like animals without a concept of God…

And to be honest laws aren’t all that influenced by judeo christian morality. How many of the 10 commandments would get you arrested? The answer is two. How many of the things that Jesus preached against in his sermon on the mount would get you arrested? If my memory serves me correctly, I would say none. Obviously there are a lot of things that go against Judeo Christian morality that are perfectly legal.

 

[Flavius_Aetius]

Ummmm, it’s pretty scary how selfish everyone here would become if you believed that God didn’t exist, as if none of you have any sort of compassion or love for your fellow man whatsoever.

When I see a homeless person, or a kid on the news whose parents made him live in a dog cage for 8 years, I am moved to pity and compassion, not because I think it’s the right thing to do or because I’m thinking, “God would want me to feel sympathy”, but because we are all human beings and I don’t want to see anyone suffer. I am faithful to my husband, not because I am constrained by some vows I said in a Church, but because I love him and I want to be. I love my son and make sacrifices for him because I love him more than life itself, not because I think it will get me into Heaven.

Now, you could make the argument that if God REALLY didn’t exist that we would all be soulless animals with zero conscience, but I think the intent of the question was more along the lines of wondering what we would do if we personally didn’t believe in God, and personally, I wouldn’t change much.

Bolded part is the reason I’d change, because finally the issue would be cleared and there would not be any hope left of any sort of divinity. Why care about our race, why show any empathy to anyone?

I’ll tell everyone in this thread now that right here and now within this doubting of God that I hate Humanity. I hate and am jealous of those above and sneer and hate those beneath me. If I could be certain that their was no God and had a means to wipe out the human race I’d do it. And my thougths aren’t different out of some innate desire to reach this eternal paradise or something like that. The only thing God changes is the hope that maybe we aren’t all just individualistic bastards, and that their is something actually worthwhile about humanity. After all no discovery and no fame is going to change that you’ll someday be dead and that everyone who praises you will be dead as well.

 

[John21652]

I believe we are moving away from Christian values, which isn’t **necessarily ** a bad thing. I think the acceptance of gays is a good thing but the super sexuality of our children is a bad thing.

And I don’t think that the way society is moving has much to do with more people rejecting God to be honest.

This is one of the most astonishing posts I have ever read.

"…we are moving away from Christian values, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing!! No doubt written by someone living within the secure boundaries of a civilised society built on Judeo-Christian values. If we are moving away from Cjhristian values, I sincerely hope you have in mind a better system. Christian society is built on tolerance and mutual respect and predicated on love of fellow man. And, of course, these values, plus a whole lot more, are predicated upon a beleif in a higher authority. True Christians have always accepted homosexuals, but not homosexuality. I trust you see and understand the difference. After all, it was Jesus Christ, the one after whom Christianity is named, that pointed out that he who is free of sin may cast the first stone, otherwise, desist. True Christians seek to protect their children from all types of exploitation, because, after all, Jesus Christ, had a special affection for children. So, if you come across anyone who is abusing gays, or exploiting children, tell them to behave like a true Christian.

And while you’re at it, take time to reflect on just how lucky you are that a society that was built on Christian principles has given you so much freedom and protection that you can even even denigrate those very same principles without fear of retribution.

 

[Revert2Christ]

As a revert to the Church this question is not difficult to answer for me.
I lived my life without God for many years, and I was not a good person. I insulted many people around me, including my parents and other family members.
I was a selfish, unpleasant person.
If it would be proven that God doesn’t exist, I would become the same person I used to be before my reversion to Christ.

What logical conclusion? That without God the only thing you should concentrate on is your own happiness at the expense of others? Have you ever heard of empathy?

We all know that people tend to be self-centered, I don’t think this is something new.
Empathy? Take a look in history! The most evil persons at first believed in God, and then turned away from Him.

 

[Incomplete]

Ummmm, it’s pretty scary how selfish everyone here would become if you believed that God didn’t exist, as if none of you have any sort of compassion or love for your fellow man whatsoever.

When I see a homeless person, or a kid on the news whose parents made him live in a dog cage for 8 years, I am moved to pity and compassion, not because I think it’s the right thing to do or because I’m thinking, “God would want me to feel sympathy”, but because we are all human beings and I don’t want to see anyone suffer. I am faithful to my husband, not because I am constrained by some vows I said in a Church, but because I love him and I want to be. I love my son and make sacrifices for him because I love him more than life itself, not because I think it will get me into Heaven.

Now, you could make the argument that if God REALLY didn’t exist that we would all be soulless animals with zero conscience, but I think the intent of the question was more along the lines of wondering what we would do if we personally didn’t believe in God, and personally, I wouldn’t change much.

Nobody is saying they won’t still have feelings of pity or empathy without God, just that they would become more selfish.

Like you, I also don’t feel sympathy for the homeless just because I think God wants me to. In fact, I would argue that those are the kinds of feelings we can’t control.

Yet there are some that I find it harder to feel sympathy for. Those who are homeless because they’ve spent it all on drugs, it took me awhile to understand the slavery they were under. And I wouldn’t have cared to understand if it wasn’t for my growth in God. We have just developed a shelter in our community that takes in those homeless nobody else will take in, which includes pedophiles. (Those who take in kids can’t take in pedophiles, of course.) Do you have the same sympathy for them, and if so, do you sacrifice for them? Either way, it’s not about those I have sympathy for, it’s about those I don’t have sympathy for and how I react to them, how I help or don’t help, that shows if I am selfish or not.

You are faithful in your marriage because you love your husband and you want to be faithful. Why is that less selfish than those who stay with their vows because it’s the right thing to do, even on days or weeks or years that they find their marriage very difficult, even loveless, yet they continue to try to make it work?

You say you love your son more than life itself and that’s why you sacrifice for him. I love my daughter the same way. I know parents who do not feel that way. Which is more selfish: to sacrifice for your child because you love him or to sacrifice even for those you don’t love?

Having feelings of love, feelings of sympathy, feelings of empathy are just that: feelings. Feelings are often beyond our control.

It is not a sign of selflessness to do for those we love. Selflessness does for others when you don’t love, when there is nothing in it for you. Though I would agree that there are those who do things thinking it will get them to heaven, understand that many do the right thing because they love God, not because they are trying to get to heaven.