What if God Gave Us Proof?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Neil_Anthony
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
N

Neil_Anthony

Guest
For me, the strongest argument of a non-believer is to ask “Why doesn’t God give us some solid proof that He exists?”

For example, every night God could write on the sky for a few minutes:

Good night
- God

There must be some great reasons why God doesn’t do this. I can think of a couple of reasons but I’m looking for more. Also I’m interested in doing more reading on this question if anyone can recommend a book or article to help.

Some questions/reasons:
  1. If God did that, what language would it be in?
  2. If God did that, would it be scientifically explanable? If not, how would science approach it? Would it completely mess up science and keep us from progressing?
  3. How would people respond emotionally to God being so close to us? Would we become lazy and stop trying to pray to God, and instead just watch for the notes in the sky? Would we then complain that if God really existed, he would make the notes more meaningful?
Any other reasons?
 
Neil_Anthony said:
For me, the strongest argument of a non-believer is to ask “Why doesn’t God give us some solid proof that He exists?”

For example, every night God could write on the sky for a few minutes:

Good night
- God

There must be some great reasons why God doesn’t do this. I can think of a couple of reasons but I’m looking for more.
Click to expand...
It’s impossible to have “proof” that such letters were written by God. They could be written by some malevolent spirit only pretending to be God. I could make a similar argument for any other evidential “proof” you want to posit so the real answer is that it is simply impossible for God to give such proof.
 
SeekingCatholic said:
It’s impossible to have “proof” that such letters were written by God. They could be written by some malevolent spirit only pretending to be God. I could make a similar argument for any other evidential “proof” you want to posit so the real answer is that it is simply impossible for God to give such proof.
Click to expand...
I’m sure if god did exist he could manage to provide some evidence of his existence. At least he could do better than he is currently doing.

If god does in fact exist, what purpose do you think hiding accomplishes, other than leading many to disbelief?
 
atheist1 said:
I’m sure if god did exist he could manage to provide some evidence of his existence.
Click to expand...
Sorry but “I’m sure” does not qualify as rigorous argument for anything. Please qualify exactly what you mean by “evidence” and why it should be accepted as evidence for God. If we did see written on the sky every night “Good night - God” why would that be evidence? Why should we assume it was actually done by God? If we saw “Good night - God” on a neon sign every night we wouldn’t assume that was done by God. If your answer is that we have no current natural explanations for the former but only for the latter, then you accept that “evidence” means things we have no current natural explanations for - I can provide you with plenty of those. If your answer to that is that just because we have no current natural explanations doesn’t mean we won’t eventually find any, then the same argument could be made against the stars being evidence for God.
At least he could do better than he is currently doing.
Click to expand...
And then, if he could, he could do better than that, and then better than that. That complaint could always be made, regardless of whether god actually exists or not. Of course, again, like the previous sentence, this is merely an unsupported assertion on your part.
If god does in fact exist, what purpose do you think hiding accomplishes, other than leading many to disbelief?
Click to expand...
You’re assuming that he is, in fact, hiding because he is choosing to hide. The reality may be in fact that the condition of the universe and of humans makes it impossible for such “evidence” as you would like to exist. I’m sure you’re familiar with the evidence provided by believers, e.g. cosmological/teleological arguments, miracles, etc. I challenge you to provide me with even a hypothetical example of a piece of evidence which could not be challenged on the exact same grounds that evidence alleged by believers is.
 
Neil_Anthony said:
For me, the strongest argument of a non-believer is to ask “Why doesn’t God give us some solid proof that He exists?”
Click to expand...
God gave a great proof in his Son Jesus! He died preached the gospel, perfomed miracles, died for our sins and rose from the dead! If that’s not sufficient proof then what more do you want? Some choose to believe, others don’t, as Jesus said,

“If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be convinced if some one should rise from the dead.” (Luke 16:31)
 
The easy answer why undeniable proof of God does not exist is that such evidence would destroy free will. If such proof existed - say, if He in His Blinding Magnificence showed up on the streets of New York one day - then we mere humans would have no choice but to believe. It wouldn’t even be belief but fact. We would have no free choice in the matter, and our existence in this imperfect universe would be for naught.
 
The story of the Israelites with Moses answers this. God gave them ample proof and they still turned away from Him. So having ample proof is no guaruntee that a person will come to worship God.
 
Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe.” (John 20:29)

God appreciates faith. If all the proof were given, what would be the need for faith?
 
Starwynd said:
The story of the Israelites with Moses answers this. God gave them ample proof and they still turned away from Him. So having ample proof is no guaruntee that a person will come to worship God.
Click to expand...
That’s a very important point.

I doubt whether a wicked man would change his ways even if we managed to convince him that God exists.
 
iaskquestions said:
God gave a great proof in his Son Jesus! He died preached the gospel, perfomed miracles, died for our sins and rose from the dead! **If that’s not sufficient proof then what more do you want? **
Click to expand...
Well, for example, some people would like to be able to put their hands in Jesus’ wounds, like Thomas did. Certainly the apostles had more evidence than the average person today.
 
ilovekittens said:
The easy answer why undeniable proof of God does not exist is that such evidence would destroy free will. If such proof existed - say, if He in His Blinding Magnificence showed up on the streets of New York one day - then we mere humans would have no choice but to believe. It wouldn’t even be belief but fact. We would have no free choice in the matter, and our existence in this imperfect universe would be for naught.
Click to expand...
We would still have free will to obey or disobey God, wouldn’t we? Why is it so important to have free will to disbelieve in God’s existence?
 
“You believe, Thomas, because you have seen Me. Blessed is he who has not seen, and has believed.”
 
Proof exists in Reason. Reason exists. Logos exists. Therefore God exists. God the Father is not a man in the sky.

God would not break the laws of Reason, for then we would have no basis of knowing Him.
 
Neil_Anthony said:
We would still have free will to obey or disobey God, wouldn’t we? Why is it so important to have free will to disbelieve in God’s existence?
Click to expand...
No, I don’t think we would have free will, if we had unequivocal proof of God’s existence. Remember, God is not just some guy. As conceived of by the Church, He is Infinite, Boundless Glory and Majesty. If we could really catch a glimpse of that, we could not just shrug it off and go our own way, but I think we would have no choice but to accept and believe and worship, etc.
 
ilovekittens said:
No, I don’t think we would have free will, if we had unequivocal proof of God’s existence. Remember, God is not just some guy. As conceived of by the Church, He is Infinite, Boundless Glory and Majesty. If we could really catch a glimpse of that, we could not just shrug it off and go our own way, but I think we would have no choice but to accept and believe and worship, etc.
Click to expand...
If for no other reason, we would be forced out of pure fear.
 
CapIV said:
Proof exists in Reason. Reason exists. Logos exists. Therefore God exists. God the Father is not a man in the sky.

God would not break the laws of Reason, for then we would have no basis of knowing Him.
Click to expand...
This is convincing… although… we could still ask, why didn’t Jesus stay around for longer? Why ascend back to heaven when he could stay here body and soul and show people his wounds and let us put our hands in them like Thomas did?

I wonder what life would be like if that happened?
 
CapIV said:
Proof exists in Reason. Reason exists. Logos exists. Therefore God exists. God the Father is not a man in the sky.

God would not break the laws of Reason, for then we would have no basis of knowing Him.
Click to expand...
God is always breaking the laws of reason, if you believe in miracles or virgin birth or resurrection from the dead, etc.

Moreover, God is not known through detached, objective rationality - at least, not the Christian God - but through the subjective experience of “faith.”
 
ilovekittens said:
No, I don’t think we would have free will, if we had unequivocal proof of God’s existence. Remember, God is not just some guy. As conceived of by the Church, He is Infinite, Boundless Glory and Majesty. If we could really catch a glimpse of that, we could not just shrug it off and go our own way, but I think we would have no choice but to accept and believe and worship, etc.
Click to expand...
What about Satan. Clearly an entity can know God and still reject him.
 
Yes. There are people whios ell their soul to Satan, rejecting God,
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top