What if god talked to me but know one belives me?

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milde said:
My point was that finding a commonality when it is put there by definition doesn’t mean you have found a pattern as you implied.
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Is there a pattern to the contrary that would establish sainthood among those that are clearly heretics and that these same individuals received visions from God?
 
Pax said:
Perhaps you could point them out and we can explore that.
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“How many generations were there between Abraham to David? Matthew 1:17 lists fourteen generations. Matthew 1:2 lists thirteen generations.”

I’m only bringing this up because you asked. Please don’t misunderstand me to try and disprove the bible. It is you who said there are no contradictions.
 
You’re going to have to help me out. Matthew 1:2 does not seem to say what you’ve indicated. Are you referring to a different passage?
 
Pax said:
You’re going to have to help me out. Matthew 1:2 does not seem to say what you’ve indicated. Are you referring to a different passage?
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Let’s try a different one then:

“Matthew 26:17, Luke 22:7 - The Last Supper occurs on the first day of Passover
John 19:14 - The Last Supper occurs the day before and Jesus is crucified on the first day of Passover”

Again, I’m only providing this because you asked, not because I’m trying to use it to disprove the bible. The point is that there are contradictions in the bible. My reasoning is that if you are going to use contradictions to disprove something then you must have difficulty accepting the gospels.

Most Christians tell me not to take the bible literally because indeed there are contradictions.
 
How about we take the first one concerning geneology and then move on to the Last Supper.

There are two geneological accounts. The first in Matthew and the second is in Luke. The two accounts differ and one might initially think that there is a contradiction. The problem for those that find a contradiction is based in a misunderstanding of the cultural idioms and purposes of the sacred authors. Matthew’s account traces the lineage through his stepfather Joseph back to Abraham. Abraham is told by God that He and Sarah will give rise to kings. This way of listing the geneology of Jesus is done for the purpose of demonstrating his legitimate standing in the line of David’s dynastic kingship.

Luke’s account is found in Chapter 3 verses 23-38. This geneology traces Jesus lineage through Mary and goes all the way back to Adam. The purpose here is to show that gentile Christians are part of the underliing universality of redemption won by Christ. Adam is the father of all mankind. This links Jews and Gentiles together in Christ.

There are a few other subtelties related to the differences in the geneologies, but there is not enough time and space to explore them here. I hope this explanation provides a good start in showing that the contradictions are superficial and not substantive.
 
So now you’ve created two classes of contradictions. Those that are important and those that are superficial. How convenient. You didn’t mention that before. 🙂

Are there any other rules to this game I should know?
 
milde said:
Let’s try a different one then:

“Matthew 26:17, Luke 22:7 - The Last Supper occurs on the first day of Passover
John 19:14 - The Last Supper occurs the day before and Jesus is crucified on the first day of Passover”

Again, I’m only providing this because you asked, not because I’m trying to use it to disprove the bible. The point is that there are contradictions in the bible. My reasoning is that if you are going to use contradictions to disprove something then you must have difficulty accepting the gospels.

Most Christians tell me not to take the bible literally because indeed there are contradictions.
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I do not have a ready answer for this one at my finger tips but there is a solution to this difficulty. The Essene calendar for Passover differed slightly from that of the Pharisees. Many historians and archaelogists believe that Jesus and the apostles actually used the Essene calendar for the Last Supper. Part of the evidence for this happens to be the Upper Room. Archaeologists believe that they have found the location of the Upper Room. They also determined that it was in the Essene corner of the city of Jerusalem.

The gospel narratives could easily differ in this regard depending upon how the sacred author was protraying the events and his perspective. It would make sense that as a time line both calendars would have been referred to.

There was an interesting thread on this issue some time ago on this forum. You might get some really good insights into the question that you’ve raised if you do a search on that topic. As I recall, it was an interesting and informative discussion.
 
milde said:
So now you’ve created two classes of contradictions. Those that are important and those that are superficial. How convenient. You didn’t mention that before. 🙂

Are there any other rules to this game I should know?
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Wait a minute here. You are deliberately misconstruing what I said. There is no contradiction. The purposes and methods along with the message determines what is and is not stated in the geneologies. There are other subtleties as well that show that these two narratives do not contradict one another. If you choose to disagree that is fine…attack my explanation and reasoning, but please refrain from flipant and erroneous remarks that do not come to bear on the issue.
 
As you wish, but you never addressed the points I made. Seeking the truth requires an open mind and a lot of study. You have a lot of homework to do. Blowing things off without the application of facts, logic, and reason simply doesn’t get it done.
 
I am not comming into this thread in an argument, only to say thatI believe that to say what you have is as wrong as saying that, the gospels have some contradictions. No that is wrong for two points
1 God DOES NOT make mistakes Love can never be in error so rather it would be better to say that Gods ways are not our ways,

2 also that in thnking that the gospels have errors rather say that God’s ways are so fare above our thoughts.

3 God made mankind to Hs own likeness, and if He choses to speak to a prophet through a donkey then He can speak to any person as and how He wishes. After all Jesus tells us himself that “if we donot praise God then the stones will” is that not the right of a God who made us to His likeness.

If that is not acceptable then why was is that when God spoke to Jesus the people around heard Him. Also at the transfigureation God told the disciples to listen to Jesus.

I have used the bible to prove the worth of the word of God.

Be at peace, for God is love
Godlovestrenght
 
Are you indicating there are no contradictions in the bible, or that the contradictions are not “errors”?
 
milde said:
So now you’ve created two classes of contradictions. Those that are important and those that are superficial. How convenient. You didn’t mention that before. 🙂

Are there any other rules to this game I should know?
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Hmm. I read the post and find it fascinating that you would draw such a bizarre conclusion from what Pax said. Interesting.

This person did no such thing as you have indicated in your note above in “creating two separate classes of contradictions” they just simply explained to you how one who is not educated in the history in the bible can so easily and innocently think that there are contradictions.

I might be a good idea for you to find a good strong bible study class lead by someone with some sort of degree in theology so that you can understand it better. After your class you will better understand what you have questioned in this thread.

May God bless you in your journey to the truth and I pray that whatever path you take it leads you to Him.
 
Coreopisis said:
It might be a good idea for you to find a good strong bible study class lead by someone with some sort of degree in theology so that you can understand it better.
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God’s word is just too complex for my little mind to understand? I need someone to interpret for me?

If God feels his plan for me is very important for me to understand, then why didn’t he make it easier to understand? I suppose you are going to tell me that he has. I’m just not listening. Right?
 
Then why did He give us the ability to talk to one another?

even Jesus followers spoke to one another.

no man or woman is a island.
 
Obviously you can talk to the wrong person and have faith that blowing yourself up in a pizza parlor in Israel grants you 72 virgins in paradise.

Now you’ll tell me that common sense won’t lead one down that road. But it most certainly does. People go down that road full of faith and enthusiasm.

So talking to people isn’t enough either. You can’t take what people say at face value.
 
milde said:
Are you indicating there are no contradictions in the bible, or that the contradictions are not “errors”?
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I am not indicating nor stating contradiction but rather relating that Gods ways are so fare removed from mankinds thoughts that one reading might seem to contradict another through OUR thinking. However for God it is not so since in God’s love He cannot err so the only way of recognising how God might be relating is to put next to GOD’S love the word “mercy”.
Then the individual would have to invite the Holy Spirit to give them discernment to even gain some understanding of what God is saying.

Godbless
 
milde said:
Obviously you can talk to the wrong person and have faith that blowing yourself up in a pizza parlor in Israel grants you 72 virgins in paradise.

Now you’ll tell me that common sense won’t lead one down that road. But it most certainly does. People go down that road full of faith and enthusiasm.

So talking to people isn’t enough either. You can’t take what people say at face value.
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sooo you dont want to talk to anyone just figure it out on your own because you cant trust anyone??

:confused:
 
There are contradictions between the New Testament and current Church practice. Somebody want to show off on say what they are?

How well do you folks know the New Testament? If nobody talks about just one, I’ll post it later. It is not my intention to prove the Catholic Church doesn’t pay attention to Scripture because it does, more than any other Church. But to all you folks out there that think there is never any disagreement, you need some education.

The Catholic Church is a living entity. It can change.
 
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