What if the Holy See abolished female altar servers?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Duesenberg
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I’m not really talking about personality, but more of the fact that man was given dominion the earth. That would mean women are to submit to an authority. Many people think submission is a terrible thing and it’s not. It’s simply acceptance of authority. I think God knew that the world needed a leading voice or force, so that is why He made man first and made him have dominion over women and animals.

That doesn’t mean women don’t have a say in things, that just means men were chosen as leaders to help both sexes come to a consensus on things.
 
Last edited:
Hey, if you’re comfortable with it and it works for you, go for it. Neither I nor any woman in my family ever submitted to anybody on the basis of gender alone. I’m also sure my husband would find this concept creepy. That is the nice thing about there being a diversity of viewpoints and personalities in the world, we can find the ones that work for us.
 
misstherese said:
I’m not really talking about personality, but more of the fact that man was given dominion the earth. That would mean women are to submit to an authority. Many people think submission is a terrible thing and it’s not. It’s simply acceptance of authority. I think God knew that the world needed a leading voice or force, so that is why He made man first and made him have dominion over women and animals.

That doesn’t mean women don’t have a say in things, that just means men were chosen as leaders to help both sexes come to a consensus on things.
Click to expand...
You’re joking right?
 
We don’t have to look far – for the “culture” of which the Pope speaks. It’s right here – carried on by those who give men “dominion” over women.
MESSAGE OF HIS HOLINESS
POPE BENEDICT XVI
FOR THE CELEBRATION OF THE
WORLD DAY OF PEACE
1 JANUARY 2007

THE HUMAN PERSON, THE HEART OF PEACE

The natural equality of all persons

A fundamental element of building peace is the recognition of the essential equality of human persons springing from their common transcendental dignity. Equality on this level is a good belonging to all, inscribed in that natural “grammar” which is deducible from the divine plan of creation; it is a good that cannot be ignored or scorned without causing serious repercussions which put peace at risk. The extremely grave deprivation afflicting many peoples, especially in Africa, lies at the root of violent reactions and thus inflicts a terrible wound on peace.
  1. Similarly, inadequate consideration for the condition of women helps to create instability in the fabric of society. I think of the exploitation of women who are treated as objects, and of the many ways that a lack of respect is shown for their dignity; I also think —in a different context—of the mindset persisting in some cultures, where women are still firmly subordinated to the arbitrary decisions of men, with grave consequences for their personal dignity and for the exercise of their fundamental freedoms. There can be no illusion of a secure peace until these forms of discrimination are also overcome, since they injure the personal dignity impressed by the Creator upon every human being.
40th World Day of Peace 2007, The Human Person, the Heart of Peace | BENEDICT XVI
Click to expand...
 
My initial comment was meant to be about men and women and authority; you do have valid points though.
 
“What if…”
Might be the two most effective words in Satan’s arsenal, because it directs one’s attention away from what is.

God has given us “what is”, not “what if”.
For me personally, what is offers me as much as I can handle every day, without speculating on what if.
 
Last edited:
Duesenberg said:
The Orthodox do not allow female altar servers to my knowledge.
Click to expand...
That may be, but there is a big difference in public reaction between a group that started something and then stopped it than for a group that never did it to begin with.

Setting aside my opinion on whether or not boys only altar servers is more fitting, preferable, etc., I think it is something that would be extremely difficult for the Church to walk back on without looking bad. Now, for an individual parish or bishop to do so is one thing. That’s certainly there prerogative to do so, and those who are most incensed by it can generally find another Catholic parish to go to. But to make it the case for the worldwide Church? I don’t see that happening anytime soon. I don’t see this as the battle most priests and bishops want to fight right now.
 
Let me now go to the Prophecies and Revelations of St Bridget, which are Church approved.
In Chapter Eighty-Four of Book Four of the Prophesies and Revelations of St. Bridget of Sweden, our Lord continues His advice to the bride, this time a short soliloquy on why He made woman subject to man for He describes three specific men, known to us in the Old Testament as a king whose lover treated him with disdain and whom Christ called a crowned donkey; the mighty Samson who was taken down not by someone of equal strength but by the wiles of a woman, whom we know as the devilish Delilah. For this Jesus says he had the heart of a hare and, as we know, lost his hair. Finally He identifies Solomon who He compares to a basilisk, the deadly lizard-like serpent which could kill with its glare. So also the wise, but vain King was felled by the glance of a woman.

The Son speaks: "Three men are said to have fallen because of women.

The first was a king whose lover struck him on the face when he did not
smile at her. This is because he was a fool and could not restrain her nor cared about his own honor. He was like a donkey wearing a crown - a donkey because of his foolishness, a crown because of his rank.

"The second was Samson who, though the strongest of men, was beaten by a woman. He had the heart of a hare, since he was unable to master a single woman.

“The third was Solomon who was like a basilisk that kills by a glance but is killed by a mirror. Thus, the wisdom of Solomon exceeded all the rest, yet a woman’s looks slew him. Woman must therefore be subject to man.”
Click to expand...
The dignity of all created souls are equal. That is and always will be true. It is also not right to listen to a man whose morals are wrong or disordered.

Also, absolutely forcing a woman to do something “or else” is definitely wrong and I do not consider that good authority. Good authority also lets the person speak for themselves and always has the person’s best interest in mind.
 
Last edited:
Yes!. This is not an exhortation to dominance, it is an observation of the damage that results from pride. Man and woman are now in a struggle for dominance, and are destined to use one another rather than live in sacrificial love.
 
I’m sure Pope Benedict XVI – who by the way is a theologian - is aware of what is approved by the Church – so his statements still stand.
 
His statements do not indicate that women are not subject to men. He seems to be talking about the threat of the dignity of women by men who exercise disordered control.
 
And here is our current Pope for you:
Apostolic Trip of the Holy Father Francis in Colombia (6-11 September 2017) – Holy Mass and Beatification in Villavicencio, 08.09.2017

The mention of women – though none of those referred to in the genealogy has the category of the great women of the Old Testament – allows us a particular rapprochement: it is they, in the genealogy, who tell us that pagan blood runs through the veins of Jesus, and who recall the stories of scorn and subjugation. In communities where we are still weighed down with patriarchal and chauvinistic customs, it is good to note that the Gospel begins by highlighting women who were influential and made history.

Apostolic Trip of the Holy Father Francis in Colombia (6-11 September 2017) – Holy Mass and Beatification in Villavicencio
Click to expand...
 
misstherese said:
His statements do not indicate that women are not subject to men. He seems to be talking about the threat of the dignity of women by men who exercise disordered control.
Click to expand...
Nope – the “dominion” you give men over women/ the subjection of women – is the disorder/the threat against women’s dignity.
 
No. Jesus said Himself to Saint Bridget that women are subject to men. That is not a disorder and is not a threat. A person’s self worth/dignity does not hinge on if they have no one to answer to.

The threat is when they use such authority for the wrong reasons. Men are not superior to women. Just because women are subject to men, that does not make men better. That is a misconception that many think.

Authority can be use justly. We have a pope who exercises authority in the right ways. We have parents who exercise authority in the right ways. We have bosses, teachers, priests, etc., who exercise authority in the right ways.
 
Last edited:
By Protestant they mean here traditional, high church Anglicans and Lutherans… who share much more in common with Catholics than they do with what we typically think of as “Protestant” in North America. As a former Evangelical, I can assure you that the “Novus Ordo” Mass struck me with awe and wonder with its pomp and ceremony and richness of tradition… compared to what I was used to (that is, no concept of Liturgy period).
 
No matter how or what you try – it is what it is —Both men and women are created in the image and likeness of God – and to give one sex “dominion” and subject the other – is a disorder against He who created women in His image and likeness.
 
Last edited:
You are correct. Men and women are created in the image and likeness of God and equal in worth. But I get the impression that you think authority or dominion somehow makes someone less worthy and that is simply not true.

Just because I listen to my parents, that does not mean I am less worthy than they.
 
When we are minors – we listen to and abide by our parents. When we become adults – we can listen to our parents counsel – but our life decisions are ours to make.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top