What If We Don’t Want More Children?

[Augustine3]

I’m a happily married man with two beautiful kids. There’s something I’ve been personally wrestling with. I don’t have the desire whatsoever to have more kids. If we did decide to have more kids it will not be out of my own desire but purely out of obedience to God’s will (my heart will not be into it).

Is this a valid reason not to have more kids without sinning?

 

[1ke]

I’m a happily married man with two beautiful kids. There’s something I’ve been personally wrestling with. I don’t have the desire whatsoever to have more kids. If we did decide to have more kids it will not be out of my own desire but purely out of obedience to God’s will (my heart will not be into it).

Is this a valid reason not to have more kids without sinning?

I would suggest you seek spiritual counsel from your pastor. In reading Humanae Vitae and Casti Connubii, it would seem not. But really this is something you and your spouse need to discern with your pastor.

 

[Mangaartist]

I would suggest you seek spiritual counsel from your pastor. In reading Humanae Vitae and Casti Connubii, it would seem not. But really this is something you and your spouse need to discern with your pastor.

++

Also keep in mind that you might change your mind later, especially if your children are young. That’s the beauty of using NFP in a situation like this. You get to decide each month as opposed to making a permanent decision.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Just make it so you can’t get kids anymore. From my point of view, if using a condom is a sin. Then so what? We all lie everyday which is also a sin. And Jesus died for our sins. So how does using a condom or sterilizing yourself a worst sin than lieing?

So oh we can lie? But we cannot use condoms or sterilize ourselves? Makes no sense to me.

Troll alert…

 

[SwizzleStick]

I would suggest you seek spiritual counsel from your pastor. In reading Humanae Vitae and Casti Connubii, it would seem not. But really this is something you and your spouse need to discern with your pastor.

++

Also keep in mind that you might change your mind later, especially if your children are young. That’s the beauty of using NFP in a situation like this. You get to decide each month as opposed to making a permanent decision.

Both posts above are very sound advice.

 

[Michael_Allen]

Hi Augustine

I think something to discern is whether this is just a short term feeling, or a sustained perception from both you and your wife that your family is complete. To distinguish between the two is going to take time, patience, prayer and some honest discussion with your wife - listening to her well and not trying to lead her away from any desire for more children. If your wife does not think the family is complete then I think you must take that very seriously into account. In the title of this thread you talk about “we” but then it seems to be more about you in the body of the text which rings just a little alarm bell for me.

So I would say - talk to your wife, pray, and don’t rush into any decisions.

God bless you, your wife, and your family +

Michael

 

[LaMusicaSenior]

I’m a happily married man with two beautiful kids. There’s something I’ve been personally wrestling with. I don’t have the desire whatsoever to have more kids. If we did decide to have more kids it will not be out of my own desire but purely out of obedience to God’s will (my heart will not be into it).

Is this a valid reason not to have more kids without sinning?

Just make it so you can’t get kids anymore. From my point of view, if using a condom is a sin. Then so what? We all lie everyday which is also a sin. And Jesus died for our sins. So how does using a condom or sterilizing yourself a worst sin than lieing?

So oh we can lie? But we cannot use condoms or sterilize ourselves? Makes no sense to me.

Like other posters have said, feelings change and God may call you to expand your family. I can’t speak from experience, as I don’t have any kids, I’m an 18 year old single. When each of my siblings were young and crying and needed a lot of attention, I thought to myself, “Babies are a lot of work!” Yet Dad and Mom have always said they would be open to God and to life…I’m the oldest of 8 siblings and love it But I do recommend utilizing NFP, if you don’t use it now already, which lets you track fertility using the method that the Church approves.

Every child is a gift…while you may not want another one, if a baby did come along, what an amazing blessing to have another little soul to bring to God.

Though, don’t take Meemai’s advice…taking God out of the sexual union degrades both husband and wife to objects - and takes God out of the picture (never a good idea. )

Have a great weekend!

God bless,

Chloe M.

 

[Neofight]

I’m a happily married man with two beautiful kids. There’s something I’ve been personally wrestling with. I don’t have the desire whatsoever to have more kids. If we did decide to have more kids it will not be out of my own desire but purely out of obedience to God’s will (my heart will not be into it).

Is this a valid reason not to have more kids without sinning?

Whoa, slow down fellow forum members. OP didn’t say anything about condoms or sterilization. He merely said he, of his own volition, has no desire to have children.

He said he would submit to God’s will.

Before jumping to conclusions (not every aspect of the very personal aspects of our lives need to be aired to our pastor or a spiritual director), if OP and Mrs. OP both don’t want more children they have no obligation to God to have more, and they have committed no sin.

That’s what NFP is all about.

Wishing Augustine peace from discernment without the guilt,

Peace and all good!

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

Before jumping to conclusions (not every aspect of the very personal aspects of our lives need to be aired to our pastor or a spiritual director), if **OP and Mrs. OP both don’t want more children **they have no obligation to God to have more, and they have committed no sin.

That’s what NFP is all about.

Wishing Augustine peace from discernment without the guilt,

Peace and all good!

Neo, this isn’t what the Church teaches, that if we don’t want kids regardless of the reasons we are ok as long as we use NFP. They do need to discern their reasons (and spiritual advisers can help with that, especially since it seems like the OP is here asking for help on this topic) and can go from there.

Here is a section of the Catechism that is relevant:

2368 A particular aspect of this responsibility concerns the regulation of procreation. For just reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children.** It is their duty to make certain that their desire is not motivated by selfishness but is in conformity with the generosity appropriate to responsible parenthood**. Moreover, they should conform their behavior to the objective criteria of morality:

…

2369 "By safeguarding both these essential aspects, the unitive and the procreative, the conjugal act preserves in its fullness the sense of true mutual love and its orientation toward man’s exalted vocation to parenthood."156

2370 Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality.157 These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, “every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible” is intrinsically evil:158

Thus the innate language that expresses the total reciprocal self-giving of husband and wife is overlaid, through contraception, by an objectively contradictory language, namely, that of not giving oneself totally to the other. This leads not only to a positive refusal to be open to life but also to a falsification of the inner truth of conjugal love, which is called upon to give itself in personal totality… the difference, both anthropological and moral, between contraception and recourse to the rhythm of the cycle . . . involves in the final analysis two irreconcilable concepts of the human person and of human sexuality.159

2371 "Let all be convinced that human life and the duty of transmitting it are not limited by the horizons of this life only: their true evaluation and full significance can be understood only in reference to man’s eternal destiny."160

 

[Celtic_Maiden]

Just make it so you can’t get kids anymore. From my point of view, if using a condom is a sin. Then so what? We all lie everyday which is also a sin. And Jesus died for our sins. So how does using a condom or sterilizing yourself a worst sin than lieing?

So oh we can lie? But we cannot use condoms or sterilize ourselves? Makes no sense to me.

It makes no sense to you " as your not obeying what the Church teaches" NO CONDOMS.
"Do not be wise in your own eyes, fear the Lord and shun Evil. You want God to bend to your Will because you do not want to obey his Will.

Shame on you, saying so what, you want to improve your attitude and better still confession for giving and thinking such things against Church teachings.

 

[VivienneJ]

Nope I just don’t want to be cathar. Cathars shunned sex and did not sex because they believed it was evil. They also got killed by the church and claimed as heretics.

There have been corrupt popes! How many religious believer have they lead down to hell? There have even been popes that sold the papacy or had mistresses or killed cardinals or even some that took over pagan religious. Also the church went on crusades etc… How is it justified to kill others on the root of religion? Sorry if I am not big on the church I do respect the church but I do not see the church as holy. After all it’s Jesus and the apostles that I respect! And I know they will forgive. The church is not as forgiving as Jesus was. Sorry I just want to be close to Jesus.

I know Jesus would forgive me if I used condoms I know Jesus would forgive it!

Also can someone explain me then why using a condom would be a bigger sin than let’s say lieing, disrespecting your parents? Or any other sin? I think the ten commandments are important and there it says nothing about condoms but I may be wrong here.

Oh and then there is the small child abuse scandal. Which your probably aware off. And I wonder do those priests still go to heaven? IF the answer is yes then using a condom or stuff will surely not do you any harm. Because how is using a condom worst then abusing childs?

So before calling me a troll everyone please realise I’m a catholic that does not look further then his local priest he has won my trust and I trust him but I might even disagree with him.

Meemai, would you share what you have posted above with the “local priest” who has “won your trust” and ask him if what you say here lines up with Catholic teaching? Because, as Celtic Maiden says,

you want to improve your attitude and better still confession for giving and thinking such things against Church teachings.

Please, OP, disregard Meemai’s comments, these **do not **reflect Catholic teaching at all. In fact some of the ‘statements’ have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the question asked.

 

[SwizzleStick]

…Please, OP, disregard Meemai’s comments, these **do not **reflect Catholic teaching at all. In fact some of the ‘statements’ have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the question asked.

This. Don’t let the thread become derailed and more about controversial comments rather than the teachings of the Catholic Church.

Again, the following posts offer sound advice.

I would suggest you seek spiritual counsel from your pastor. In reading Humanae Vitae and Casti Connubii, it would seem not. But really this is something you and your spouse need to discern with your pastor.

++

Also keep in mind that you might change your mind later, especially if your children are young. That’s the beauty of using NFP in a situation like this. You get to decide each month as opposed to making a permanent decision.

Neo, this isn’t what the Church teaches, that if we don’t want kids regardless of the reasons we are ok as long as we use NFP. They do need to discern their reasons (and spiritual advisers can help with that, especially since it seems like the OP is here asking for help on this topic) and can go from there. …

 

[Augustine3]

Thanks everyone for your posts, a lot of insightful and informative posts indeed! You’ve made things clearer for me. I now realise my having no desire for more children reflects directly on my current relationship with my children. I thought things were “ok” between us but now that I’ve been reflecting on it the past few days has made believe I still have so much more work (especially in involvement with them) to do in order to build up a relationship with them and help them become saints.

It’s funny, I was brought up with lots of love by my own parents and I always thought I would do the same. Being married and especially having children has made me realise just how selfish and self-centered I really am. Dear Lord forgive my sin and may the Holy Spirit conform me more and more into the image of Jesus Christ!

 

[Augustine3]

Just make it so you can’t get kids anymore. From my point of view, if using a condom is a sin. Then so what? We all lie everyday which is also a sin. And Jesus died for our sins. So how does using a condom or sterilizing yourself a worst sin than lieing?

So oh we can lie? But we cannot use condoms or sterilize ourselves? Makes no sense to me.

I appreciate your honestly and your time out to guide me.

I’m concerned for you as your brother in Christ that you would give this sort of advice. If I listened to you then I would have a sin and you would have to account for my soul when your time comes to be judged. You claimed that Jesus would forgive you, but Jesus also said:

"Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.” – Matthew 18:6

 

[Augustine3]

Thanks everyone for your posts, a lot of insightful and informative posts indeed! You’ve made things clearer for me. I now realise my having no desire for more children reflects directly on my current relationship with my children. I thought things were “ok” between us but now that I’ve been reflecting on it the past few days has made believe I still have so much more work (especially in involvement with them) to do in order to build up a relationship with them and help them become saints.

It’s funny, I was brought up with lots of love by my own parents and I always thought I would do the same. Being married and especially having children has made me realise just how selfish and self-centered I really am. Dear Lord forgive my sin and may the Holy Spirit conform me more and more into the image of Jesus Christ!

Your prayers brothers and sisters are greatly appreciated!

 

[HouseArrest]

Nope I just don’t want to be cathar. Cathars shunned sex and did not sex because they believed it was evil. They also got killed by the church and claimed as heretics.

There have been corrupt popes! How many religious believer have they lead down to hell? There have even been popes that sold the papacy or had mistresses or killed cardinals or even some that took over pagan religious. Also the church went on crusades etc… How is it justified to kill others on the root of religion? Sorry if I am not big on the church I do respect the church but I do not see the church as holy. After all it’s Jesus and the apostles that I respect! And I know they will forgive. The church is not as forgiving as Jesus was. Sorry I just want to be close to Jesus.

I know Jesus would forgive me if I used condoms I know Jesus would forgive it!

Also can someone explain me then why using a condom would be a bigger sin than let’s say lieing, disrespecting your parents? Or any other sin? I think the ten commandments are important and there it says nothing about condoms but I may be wrong here.

Oh and then there is the small child abuse scandal. Which your probably aware off. And I wonder do those priests still go to heaven? IF the answer is yes then using a condom or stuff will surely not do you any harm. Because how is using a condom worst then abusing childs?

So before calling me a troll everyone please realise I’m a catholic that does not look further then his local priest he has won my trust and I trust him but I might even disagree with him.

Or we could compare ourselves to Mother Theresa or Pope John Paul II and see how we stack up.

I don’t believe God judges using a bell curve. When we die and stand before God on our judgment day, He is not going to ask us what “everyone else” did.

You’re either in or you’re out, on your own accord. And I don’t think “the devil made me do it” is going to fly, either.

 

[sdeco]

Neo, this isn’t what the Church teaches, that if we don’t want kids regardless of the reasons we are ok as long as we use NFP.

I thought this is exactly what the Church teaches - that you are fine as long as you are using NFP and would never have an abortion if you did get pregnant. Otherwise, the Church would say you HAVE to have sex during the fertile time, and they don’t say that. It’s impossible to use NFP with a “contraceptive mentality.”

I don’t understand how it can be a good idea to have children purely out of obligation. That’s not fair to the child.

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

I thought this is exactly what the Church teaches - that you are fine as long as you are using NFP and would never have an abortion if you did get pregnant. Otherwise, the Church would say you HAVE to have sex during the fertile time, and they don’t say that. It’s impossible to use NFP with a “contraceptive mentality.”

We can look at the catechism to find out what exactly the Church teaches:

2368 A particular aspect of this responsibility concerns the regulation of procreation.** For just reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children. It is their duty to make certain that their desire is not motivated by selfishness but is in conformity with the generosity appropriate to responsible parenthood.** Moreover, they should conform their behavior to the objective criteria of morality:
…

2371 "Let all be convinced that human life and the duty of transmitting it are not limited by the horizons of this life only: their true evaluation and full significance can be understood only in reference to man’s eternal destiny."160

 

[apricot_yogurt]

Love is a choice. If I only did things I wanted and felt good, I would have no husband and no children. I would long ago have dumped my husband, and would have no kids. But then, I’m an idiot, and God knows what is best for me. I don’t get all broody,never have. I said yes to God, without the feelings, since feelings come and go.

 

[Michael57]

Just make it so you can’t get kids anymore. From my point of view, if using a condom is a sin. Then so what? We all lie everyday which is also a sin. And Jesus died for our sins. So how does using a condom or sterilizing yourself a worst sin than lieing?

So oh we can lie? But we cannot use condoms or sterilize ourselves? Makes no sense to me.

Perhaps this will make sense to you, I refer you to the sixth chapter of the book of Romans. Here

In particular:

Freedom from Sin; Life in God.

1 What then shall we say? Shall we persist in sin that grace may abound? Of course not!

2 How can we who died to sin yet live in it?

3 Or are you unaware that we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

4 We were indeed buried with him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might live in newness of life.

5 For if we have grown into union with him through a death like his, we shall also be united with him in the resurrection.

6 We know that our old self was crucified with him, so that our sinful body might be done away with, that we might no longer be in slavery to sin.

And the rest of the chapter is good reading too.

And after reading Romans 6, perhaps you can discuss it with your priest?

It seems to me that you are encouraging a fellow Catholic to sin, and justifying it by others that sin and gain forgiveness after. We are called to conform with Christ, and not the devil (who is a liar).

Sin doesn’t justify more sin.