What if We Stopped Trying to Make Abortion Illegal?

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EeyoresButerfly

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I am firmly Pro-Life and believe in the stance of the Catholic Church that abortion kills, but I have felt for a long time that we are going about it the wrong way. Protesting, throwing around cliches like “murder” “pro-abortion” “pro-death” (nobody is pro abortion), spending all of our time effort and money on making it illegal are doing everyone a disservice (IMO).

What happens if we make it illegal? Will it save some lives? Sure. But just as many women will go over the borders or find back alley practitioners to obtain illegal abortions. It will not end the issue, it will simply sweep it under the rug. While we pat ourselves on the back for a job well done, babies will continue to die and we will see an increase in deaths from poorly performed abortions. I highly recommend seeing the movie “If These Walls Could Talk.” I would even go out on a limb to say that making abortion illegal without addressing the causes in the first place is borderline irresponsible.

What if instead of engaging in pointless debate that never changes minds (only makes people dig their heels in sooner) we instead devoted our time, energy, and resources into addressing the reasons why abortions exist to begin with. Wouldn’t it be amazing if abortions ended not because we passed a law but because they were no longer “needed?”

So what factors are these?

1.) A lack of respect for all forms of life. I teach special ed, and I know many sped teachers who feel that they cannot even post students’ work on the walls. While I understand and respect confidentiality, we have made it into a shameful thing to have a disability. Much of the prenatal testing centers around disabilities such as Down Syndrome. Instead of celebrating the unique gifts and diversity disabilities bring, we make it into a shameful thing that must be hidden, the modern equivalent of hiding the children away. I forget the statistic, but the vast majority of babies who test positive for Downs end up aborted.

2.) No societal expectations for men to step up. We simply do not expect men to invest in their child at all. The very most we ask is a financial commitment. So what happens to the woman who ends pregnant out of wedlock? For many it is the death of their dreams. How many women do you know ended up having to drop out or delay school because all of their energy was invested in raising the child with no support from the father while the man goes out to live his life, gets married, and suffers little to no consequences? We simply do not expect men to step up.

3.) Rape. Although we have come a long way, many men still view women as property. We are not teaching our sons that “no means no” and encourage the objectification of women.

4.) Attitudes towards premarital sex. 96% of people engage in premarital sex, judging from some other threads around here, that includes a good number of people on this site. If a man engages in premarital sex he is a stud. If a woman engages in premarital sex she is promiscuous. For the most part it is considered cool for a girl to be sexually active…until she ends up as pregnant. We need to start teaching our teens to respect their bodies, but even more so, to forgive. We need to start removing the stigma of being pregnant out of wedlock.

5.) Lack of resources for single parents. What if we took some of that time and energy devoted to lobbying and protests and opened church run day care centers at little or no cost so that women could continue to go to school? What if we greatly increased resources for single parents or low income families so that having a baby is not the financial kiss of death for the family?

6.) Changing the attitudes of the church. Frankly, the church falls short on this issue. Look at how many teachers have lost thier job because they were pregnant out of wedlock. Let’s face it, I bet a majority of the teachers are engaging in sex out of marriage, it doesn’t make it right, but let’s be realistic here. They just don’t end up pregnant so you don’t know about. So what happens when somebody does get pregnant? They are left with two options: get an abortion and pray nobody finds out (in which case you get to keep your job) or choose life and lose your only source of income. What is the more attractive option, especially for those who are not actually Catholic?

Now imagine if the church focuses on forgiveness. Acknowledging that what happened was a sin, but that thorugh repentance can come forgiveness. Focus on the fact that the woman made the difficult decision to choose life for her unborn child. Now what is the more attractive option to women? My senior year of college, the President of our Newman Center became pregnant out of wedlock. She carried the child to term and offered the baby up for adoption to a very nice Catholic couple. Instead of being shunned and kicked off the council and igniting scandal, we accepted that she made a mistake, congratulated her for choosing life, supported her, and allowed her to keep her position. There was next to nothing said about the circumstances. We knew it was wrong, she knew it was wrong, the deed was done, no reason to harp on it.

It just seems to me our current approach is not working. What was that quote by Einstein? Insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting different results. Instead of fighting a battle that in the end will not result in the desired outcome we switched tactics and started doing what we can to make abortion unnecessary to begin with?
 
I would even go out on a limb to say that making abortion illegal without addressing the causes in the first place is borderline irresponsible.
I agree. And you make many good points about the causes.
It just seems to me our current approach is not working. What was that quote by Einstein? Insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting different results.
Polls in the past six months suggest that American attitudes towards abortion may be shifting against it, so perhaps something is working. But I think we could adopt some of your suggestions, too. I don’t think we have to make an “either/or” decision.
 
I am firmly Pro-Life and believe in the stance of the Catholic Church that abortion kills, but I have felt for a long time that we are going about it the wrong way. Protesting, throwing around cliches like “murder” “pro-abortion” “pro-death” (nobody is pro abortion), spending all of our time effort and money on making it illegal are doing everyone a disservice (IMO).

What happens if we make it illegal? Will it save some lives? Sure. But just as many women will go over the borders or find back alley practitioners to obtain illegal abortions. It will not end the issue, it will simply sweep it under the rug. While we pat ourselves on the back for a job well done, babies will continue to die and we will see an increase in deaths from poorly performed abortions. I highly recommend seeing the movie “If These Walls Could Talk.” I would even go out on a limb to say that making abortion illegal without addressing the causes in the first place is borderline irresponsible.

What if instead of engaging in pointless debate that never changes minds (only makes people dig their heels in sooner) we instead devoted our time, energy, and resources into addressing the reasons why abortions exist to begin with. Wouldn’t it be amazing if abortions ended not because we passed a law but because they were no longer “needed?”

So what factors are these?

1.) A lack of respect for all forms of life. I teach special ed, and I know many sped teachers who feel that they cannot even post students’ work on the walls. While I understand and respect confidentiality, we have made it into a shameful thing to have a disability. Much of the prenatal testing centers around disabilities such as Down Syndrome. Instead of celebrating the unique gifts and diversity disabilities bring, we make it into a shameful thing that must be hidden, the modern equivalent of hiding the children away. I forget the statistic, but the vast majority of babies who test positive for Downs end up aborted.

2.) No societal expectations for men to step up. We simply do not expect men to invest in their child at all. The very most we ask is a financial commitment. So what happens to the woman who ends pregnant out of wedlock? For many it is the death of their dreams. How many women do you know ended up having to drop out or delay school because all of their energy was invested in raising the child with no support from the father while the man goes out to live his life, gets married, and suffers little to no consequences? We simply do not expect men to step up.

3.) Rape. Although we have come a long way, many men still view women as property. We are not teaching our sons that “no means no” and encourage the objectification of women.

4.) Attitudes towards premarital sex. 96% of people engage in premarital sex, judging from some other threads around here, that includes a good number of people on this site. If a man engages in premarital sex he is a stud. If a woman engages in premarital sex she is promiscuous. For the most part it is considered cool for a girl to be sexually active…until she ends up as pregnant. We need to start teaching our teens to respect their bodies, but even more so, to forgive. We need to start removing the stigma of being pregnant out of wedlock.

5.) Lack of resources for single parents. What if we took some of that time and energy devoted to lobbying and protests and opened church run day care centers at little or no cost so that women could continue to go to school? What if we greatly increased resources for single parents or low income families so that having a baby is not the financial kiss of death for the family?

6.) Changing the attitudes of the church. Frankly, the church falls short on this issue. Look at how many teachers have lost thier job because they were pregnant out of wedlock. Let’s face it, I bet a majority of the teachers are engaging in sex out of marriage, it doesn’t make it right, but let’s be realistic here. They just don’t end up pregnant so you don’t know about. So what happens when somebody does get pregnant? They are left with two options: get an abortion and pray nobody finds out (in which case you get to keep your job) or choose life and lose your only source of income. What is the more attractive option, especially for those who are not actually Catholic?

Now imagine if the church focuses on forgiveness. Acknowledging that what happened was a sin, but that thorugh repentance can come forgiveness. Focus on the fact that the woman made the difficult decision to choose life for her unborn child. Now what is the more attractive option to women? My senior year of college, the President of our Newman Center became pregnant out of wedlock. She carried the child to term and offered the baby up for adoption to a very nice Catholic couple. Instead of being shunned and kicked off the council and igniting scandal, we accepted that she made a mistake, congratulated her for choosing life, supported her, and allowed her to keep her position. There was next to nothing said about the circumstances. We knew it was wrong, she knew it was wrong, the deed was done, no reason to harp on it.

It just seems to me our current approach is not working. What was that quote by Einstein? Insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting different results. Instead of fighting a battle that in the end will not result in the desired outcome we switched tactics and started doing what we can to make abortion unnecessary to begin with?
Abortion is not illegal in my country at all. There are no laws for it or against it at all. In fact, it has become just another fact of life and most people are quite apathetic about it. And of course it will always be considered necessary so long as people rely on unreliable contraceptives! It’s not their fault they got pregnant while on the pill, you know.:eek:
 
(nobody is pro abortion)
You’d be surprised. If you’d ever visited a blog like Feministing or other radical feminist site, or heard what that Episcopal priestess said about abortion being a “blessing,” you might change your mind.
I would even go out on a limb to say that making abortion illegal without addressing the causes in the first place is borderline irresponsible.
I guess the fundamental question for me is, is an abortion the taking of a human life or not? If it is, and I believe it is, and the Church certainly believes it is, then the civil law in a just society should reflect that. People have a lot of reasons for killing each other, I’m sure…but do we say, murder shouldn’t be illegal because we as a society don’t do enough to keep murder from happening? In the 1960s did we just shrug our shoulders and say, “Oh well, the segregationists have put the Jim Crow laws in place, we have to live with them?” 🤷

You make good points but I feel like I should stand up for the Catholic Church. I feel there is a one-sided picture being painted (not by you in particular, but by many people) that the Church is only interested in fighting abortion in the political arena. The Church IS doing all these things and more. Children with Downs have been welcomed with open arms in the Catholic communities I have been a part of. In my area there is a fantastic network of crisis pregnancy centers that draws huge support from the Catholic parishes. I’ve been wanting to volunteer with them and now that I’m being accused of only caring about politics by my pro-choice friends, I feel even more motivated to do so! 😃 These CPCs are also involved in outreach to the local high schools - they bring in college-aged peer counselors to teach them about the value of chastity and respect for their own bodies.

What I don’t understand is this “either/or” approach…either fight abortion through the law and political means, OR help women and children. I prefer a “both/and” approach and that is what I see the church as trying to do. I have never, ever encountered a Catholic church that had a strong pro-life ministry that was solely about political activism…they always engaged in corporal works of mercy to help struggling women. I know if a woman came to me and said she needed help and support to carry her baby to term…I would drop everything for her. I mean that 100%. Pro-life ministry needs to help women AND work to change the civil law. 👍
 
I see and agree with the main thrust of what you’re getting at - trying to treat the disease rather than the symptom. But I’ll throw out a few things to consider-
I am firmly Pro-Life and believe in the stance of the Catholic Church that abortion kills, but I have felt for a long time that we are going about it the wrong way. Protesting, throwing around cliches like “murder” “pro-abortion” “pro-death” (nobody is pro abortion), spending all of our time effort and money on making it illegal are doing everyone a disservice (IMO).
I think many people really are “pro-abortion”. People really do think that the procedure of abortion is not only morally acceptable, but in many cases desireable over having children for numerous reasons (over-population myths, decreasing one’s “carbon-footprint”, etc…). So to label some as pro-abortion isn’t just hyperbole or inflammitory, but is really just accurate. Also, clever verbal-engineering and perception management strategies got us into this mess in the first place, so perhaps using the same tactics may get us out. This is, afterall, largely about people’s perception of the issue.
What happens if we make it illegal? Will it save some lives? Sure. But just as many women will go over the borders or find back alley practitioners to obtain illegal abortions. It will not end the issue, it will simply sweep it under the rug.
The number of abortions increased exponentially once abortion on demand became the law of the land. The theory was that there wouldn’t be a dramatic increase, but we’ve seemed to average about 1.5 million a year in the US since Roe v Wade. Just based on some precusory research on the internet, and I readily admit these numbers would be impossible to verify, but the number of abortions in the US in 1970-1973, was around 100,000/yr average. So we’re talking about significant numbers of lives potentially saved here, not just some. And besides even if making abortion illegal only saves one single life, then surely we would all agree it would be worth it.
What if instead of engaging in pointless debate that never changes minds (only makes people dig their heels in sooner) we instead devoted our time, energy, and resources into addressing the reasons why abortions exist to begin with.
So what factors are these?
1.) A lack of respect for all forms of life.
2.) No societal expectations for men to step up.
Couldn’t agree more with these points, especially about men (seeing as I am one). If my brothers would step up and truly live up to their true calling to be men, we would hardly ever see even a single abortion. Think about it - how many women would ever darken the doorway of Planned Parenthood if their male spouse/partner/whatever would tell them things like “Don’t worry, I’ll be there for you no matter the cost. I will raise this child. I will love this child. I will take responsibility.” I bet very few and then we would really have to evaluate the mental/emotional stability of the small remainder that still seek abortions. What ever happened to the sense of honor or chivalry? Does it even exist anymore?
4.) Attitudes towards premarital sex.
Now this is the crux of the issue to me. It is just expected that we are to have pre- and even extra-marital sex these days. We don’t expect our marriages to last at all. It all boils down to selfishness, a lack of self-control, and a lack of respect for self and others.
6.) Changing the attitudes of the church.
I’m not too sure about this one. I not only attended Catholic schools, but my mother taught in them and we never had anyone get fired or kicked out of school due to getting pregnant outside of wedlock. Does it happen in some places? I’m sure, I’m just not sure that we can accurately characterize all Catholic institutions this way though. I think we need to change our Catholic educational system to one that actually teaches what the Church teaches. Bring back the old-school nuns I say!!! Rulers and all! 😃
Now imagine if the church focuses on forgiveness.
This is exactly what the Church does. In fact read these words of Pope John Paul’s Evangelium Vitae:

*“I would now like to say a special word to women who have had an abortion. The Church is aware of the many factors which may have influenced your decision, and she does not doubt that in many cases it was a painful and even shattering decision. The wound in your heart may not yet have healed. Certainly what happened was and remains terribly wrong. But do not give in to discouragement and do not lose hope. Try rather to understand what happened and face it honestly. If you have not already done so, give yourselves over with humility and trust to repentance. The Father of mercies is ready to give you his forgiveness and his peace in the Sacrament of Reconciliation. You will come to understand that nothing is definitively lost and you will also be able to ask forgiveness from your child, who is now living in the Lord. With the friendly and expert help and advice of other people, and as a result of your own painful experience, you can be among the most eloquent defenders of everyone’s right to life. Through your commitment to life, whether by accepting the birth of other children or by welcoming and caring for those most in need of someone to be close to them, you will become promoters of a new way of looking at human life.” *
It just seems to me our current approach is not working.
I really do share your frustration here. And I really like most of what you’re saying. We need to get to the heart of the issue here to be most effective. But I’m not ready to abandon our efforts to make abortion illegal.
 
Yes, abortion is murder, I 100% agree with that. But making it illegal will not make others believe it is murder. It will instead make them seek out more dangerous means of abortion that will result in higher rates of maternal death, botched abortions leading to increased risks of birth defects, etc. To me, making it illegal is like putting a band aid on a severed artery. It does not fix the problem, it only gives the appearance of doing so. It also seems that if you look at the make up of the district and Supreme Courts and the societal attitudes, this is not going to happen anytimes soon. Pro Life groups are investing a lot of money into something that at this point in time is a doomed effort. To me that is money that could be best spent elsewhere.

Yes, the church does a great job of respecting people with disabilities as another poster pointed out, but the problem isn’t in the church, it is in society. My classroom next year is a self contained special ed room. Coming from a sped perspective, most families see having a child with a disability as something to be hidden away. God forbid anybody know their child received special education services. This is indicative of what is happening in a society at large. Right now Special Olympics is having a campaign to get rid of the “r word”. Look at how comedians treat people with intellectual and physical disabilities. Go out with a group of people with disabilities and listen to the kinds of comments you get. There is very little respect in our society. Yes, it is getting better, but we are not there yet.
 
Maybe abandoning is too strong of a term. But I do think that the vast majority of our efforts are spent in the legal arena. I can’t even remember the last time I heard a pro-life group seriously address the causes. It seems the the pro-life movement has erroneously focused on the legal aspects of it believing that if we can make it illegal everything will be kittens and roses. That is simply naive. We should keep fighting in the legal arena, but it should not be all, or even the majority of our efforts.
 
Maybe abandoning is too strong of a term. But I do think that the vast majority of our efforts are spent in the legal arena. I can’t even remember the last time I heard a pro-life group seriously address the causes. It seems the the pro-life movement has erroneously focused on the legal aspects of it believing that if we can make it illegal everything will be kittens and roses. That is simply naive. We should keep fighting in the legal arena, but it should not be all, or even the majority of our efforts.
Well, yes, except that the “other side” isn’t really concerned about those cases of abortion where the woman is really up against the wall. Otherwise, they would be spending their billions providing direct relief for such woman. Planned Parenthood supports “choice” because they think of abortion as simply a form of contraception, and they promote contraception because they believe in population control.
 
EeyoresButerfly – I applaud your efforts to address abortion as a symptom of deeper causes that need to be addressed.

To those in favor of legal prohibitions: one other option, preferable to the current state of affairs, would be a constitutional amendment banning abortion.

To the odd reader that might wish to preserve the ability of a woman to get an abortion: one other option, preferable to the current state of affairs, would be a constitutional amendment defining the right to privacy and to what extent it protects a woman’s ability to get an abortion.

As it stands now, neither a right to life nor a right to choose are foremost on the minds of elected officials. They would prefer to kick around this issue as a presidential and congressional football rather than resolve the issue through proper legislative means.
 
How late in pregnancy should abortion be legal?
Right now, in the United States, it is legal throughout nine months.
That’s one of the more liberal abortion laws in the world.
How about if we just let the people decide what the abortion laws should be, by enacting them in their state legislatures?
That worked pretty well before 1973.
 
Nobody is saying that abortion should be legal, just that if we want a solution we need to realize that it’s going to take more than a piece of paper to save lives.

Actually, state legislatures have been trying to make it illegal since Roe v. Wade and all have been struck down on constitutional grounds.
 
Nobody is saying that abortion should be legal, just that if we want a solution we need to realize that it’s going to take more than a piece of paper to save lives.

Actually, state legislatures have been trying to make it illegal since Roe v. Wade and all have been struck down on constitutional grounds.
Which is precisely why Roe and Doe should be struck down. The law as written by the supreme court is simply bad law. Strike down Roe and let the legislatures do it. Polls now show that the majority of citizens in the U.S. do not support unlimited abortion through 9 months, as we have with the SCOTUS decisions. The people would do much better deciding this on their own.
 
Polls now show that the majority of citizens in the U.S. do not support unlimited abortion through 9 months, as we have with the SCOTUS decisions.
I think it should be pointed out that it is estimated that less than one tenth of one percent of U.S. abortions happen after 24 weeks. (i.e. in the “third trimester”).
 
I support almost all of what OP proposes, (not all because the arguments are so fuzzy and her hypotheses don’t bear weight in many cases, her naievete about reasons men rape, for instance).

But I offer this reflection on the logical inconsistency in the argument.

Let us substitute “rape” or “murder” for abortion in the debate.

Let us work to make “rape” unnecessary rather than making it illegal, educate men on constructive channels for their anger, rather than making them criminals for giving into compelling urges. It’s illegal but plenty of people will always do it, so making it illegal does not work.

Let us work to make “murder” unnecessary, rather than making it illegal, because plenty of people still buy guns or pick up kitchen knives or make homemade bombs to commit murder, and making it illegal does not stop it, so why criminalize the murderer, why not look to the reasons he murders and rehabilitate him?

This line of thinking ignores the reasons laws are passed in the first place. The law is to protect the victim, in the first case, and society in the second. The law establishes the parameter of what is allowed, and what is forbidden, in order to protect the rights of all members of society INCLUDING and especially the most helpless and innocent who cannot take any steps to protect themselves. The specific laws, in this country, also exist to extend constitution protection of natural rights – those derived from the condition of human existence, not by gift of the government – in cases where there have been attempts to infringe upon those rights, and where specific language has become necessary. Slavery is of course the most important example of how that played out in legal history.
 
I am firmly Pro-Life and believe in the stance of the Catholic Church that abortion kills, but I have felt for a long time that we are going about it the wrong way. Protesting, throwing around cliches like “murder” “pro-abortion” “pro-death” (nobody is pro abortion), spending all of our time effort and money on making it illegal are doing everyone a disservice (IMO).
Pro choice is pro abortion. Is it genuine to say I am against arson, but if some one else wants to commit arson I think the state should not interfer?
 
It just seems to me our current approach is not working. What was that quote by Einstein? Insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting different results. Instead of fighting a battle that in the end will not result in the desired outcome we switched tactics and started doing what we can to make abortion unnecessary to begin with?
Actually, the current approach for deacdes has been poor catechesis, liberal ideas uncorrected, and moral relativism infiltrating the culture and worse. We should try doing what the Church actually teaches for a change. That includes help for those suffering and proper moral formation, enforcing canon law against pro abort Catholic pols, and more faithfulness from each of us.

It is not that pro life folks focus too much on one area, it is that the rest of use refuse to do more including being more obedient to Mother Church.

If Catholics start living like Catholics, including pols, we would start to change the culture. Yet, we vote these people in and they influence the law. That says we may not really believe what we claim. You can’t have a law that allows killing and then say that makes little difference in how people view reality.
 
Guess we need to remind the young that prior to 1973 there were not scores of women bleeding and dying in the streets from “botched abortions”, the planes/boats were not packed with women traveling to other countries to get abortions and there were not vast hoards of unwanted children roaming the countryside.

Women who became pregnant and were law abiding had the child. They either raised the child or gave him up for adoption.

The only doctors who would preform abortions were those who were willing to lose their license or face jail for it, outlaws.
 
Guess we need to remind the young that prior to 1973 there were not scores of women bleeding and dying in the streets from “botched abortions”, the planes/boats were not packed with women traveling to other countries to get abortions and there were not vast hoards of unwanted children roaming the countryside.

Women who became pregnant and were law abiding had the child. They either raised the child or gave him up for adoption.

The only doctors who would preform abortions were those who were willing to lose their license or face jail for it, outlaws.
Exactly. Dr. Bernard Nathanson, the co-founder of NARAL and one of the leaders in the pro-abortion movement in the 70s stated the following:

“We claimed that between five and ten thousand women a year died of botched abortions,” he said. “The actual figure was closer to 200 to 300 and we also claimed that there were a million illegal abortions a year in the United States and the actual figure was close to 200,000. So, we were guilty of massive deception.”

Basically, the “facts” about back-alley coat-hanger abortions were lies to begin with.

On another note it seems to me that there may be some dispair here with the OPs posts. I may be COMPLETELY off base here but that’s just what it seems like to me 🤷. I sometimes feel the same way quite honestly. There doesn’t seem to be much positive movement in this debate, despite our best efforts. In fact, America just took a massive step backwards in electing the most abortion-friendly president in American history. Not only that he’s going to be in a position to nominate a few supreme court justices, with a democrat controlled Congress to support his every move. But God will win this war. One day victory will come. I have no idea honestly how, but I’m sure it will. We just all remain resolute to stay the course and fight the good fight. In the words of Blessed Teresa of Calcutta “God doesn’t call us to be successful, He calls us to be faithful”.
 
The whole attitude toward what abortion is reminds me of the part in Genesis in the bible when the devil asks Eve “Did God really tell you not to eat from any of the trees in the garden?”. It seems the devil is asking humans today “Is abortion really murder?” Fact is, that yes it is. If people stopped lying to themselves and stopped being selfish, they would easily and quickly admit that it was.

As far as making it illegal, I would say that yes that would be part of the strategy to curb the problem. Go to hli.org to get information on how Obama has opened the floodgates to even more abortion in the world by doing the things that he has done while president.

If you want men to step up, then women need to start having more respect for their bodies simple as that. Notice that there are strip clubs, magazines, video’s etc etc of woman giving themselves over willingly to debauchery. The central focus is the woman. The same thing that the devil did to cause the fall of man, is the same thing he is doing now to cause men to fall. If women took the lead and remained chaste until marriage, then I would guarantee that abortion would drop considerably. Then you probably no longer need them. If women don’t respect their own bodies, how could they expect men to respect them?

Here in Australia, we run ads on TV that continuously shows the effects of smoking. The ads are graphic and they even use real people dieing of cancer to get the message across that smoking is bad for you. They even have graphic images on cigarette packets to try to stop people from buying them. Guess what. People still smoke. The government has even raised tax on cigarettes to try to curb the problem. They are now trying to push through law that will make every packet of cigarette white with no other colour on it so people won’t be drawn to the nice colours of the packets. I don’t think that will stop people from buying them. You see just by trying to make something that is legal sound bad won’t make people give it up.

I believe that our current approach to abortion is working. Remember that if people want to use their free will to believe the lie rather than the truth and be deceived then that is their free-will. That is the devils influence he is having on people. We can pray for them and hope that God may touch their heart.
 
Hello, there ChristinaM! Just to preface my post, I do come in peace, however, there are a few things I would like to clear up:

**
You’d be surprised. If you’d ever visited a blog like Feministing or other radical feminist site, or heard what that Episcopal priestess said about abortion being a “blessing,” you might change your mind.
**
“Pro-abortion” and “Pro-choice” are not the same thing! It’s alright; I have to clear this up for people on a regular basis! As an active participant at Feministing, I find your remark to be a wee bit critical, but I won’t take it personal! 😉 I personally don’t know any feminist who think abortions are fantastic. In fact, there is a predominate understanding that abortions hinder all people, not just woman. However, many feminist also believe that in search for social, economical, political, and cultural equality, we all should have leeway to make decisions about our own lives, which in the Christian sphere, we like to call “free-will”! We all make bad decisions; Adam and Eve started a huge trend! However, we all will be judged accordingly by a power much greater than us.

**QUOTE]**I guess the fundamental question for me is, is an abortion the taking of a human life or not? If it is, and I believe it is, and the Church certainly believes it is, then the civil law in a just society should reflect that. People have a lot of reasons for killing each other, I’m sure…but do we say, murder shouldn’t be illegal because we as a society don’t do enough to keep murder from happening? In the 1960s did we just shrug our shoulders and say, “Oh well, the segregationists have put the Jim Crow laws in place, we have to live with them?” 🤷

I don’t think EeyoresButerfly is saying that abortion isn’t a violent act against a human life. I do believe her aim is to get to the root of the issue to eradicate abortion permantly. And actually, in the 1960s, and many years before, thousands of human beings did shrug their shoulders at the dehumanization of African Americans, hence the establishment of Jim Crow Laws!

**

You make good points but I feel like I should stand up for the Catholic Church. I feel there is a one-sided picture being painted (not by you in particular, but by many people) that the Church is only interested in fighting abortion in the political arena. The Church IS doing all these things and more. Children with Downs have been welcomed with open arms in the Catholic communities I have been a part of. In my area there is a fantastic network of crisis pregnancy centers that draws huge support from the Catholic parishes. I’ve been wanting to volunteer with them and now that I’m being accused of only caring about politics by my pro-choice friends, I feel even more motivated to do so! 😃 These CPCs are also involved in outreach to the local high schools - they bring in college-aged peer counselors to teach them about the value of chastity and respect for their own bodies.**

Once again, I don’t see EeyoresButerfly taking a stance against the Catholic Church! If anything, she’s doing what most citizens don’t-- trying to find the solution to a terrible problem! Because apparently, what we’re doing now isn’t working!

**QUOTE]**What I don’t understand is this “either/or” approach…either fight abortion through the law and political means, OR help women and children. I prefer a “both/and” approach and that is what I see the church as trying to do. I have never, ever encountered a Catholic church that had a strong pro-life ministry that was solely about political activism…they always engaged in corporal works of mercy to help struggling women. I know if a woman came to me and said she needed help and support to carry her baby to term…I would drop everything for her. I mean that 100%. Pro-life ministry needs to help women AND work to change the civil law. 👍 ]

And what would you do once the baby was born? Do you think that’s the end of your mission once the child is here? Because frankly, that child must eat; that child needs clothes and shelter. Will you drop everything to help this women for the next 18 or so years? 🤷
 
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