What if you already beleive Satan's lie?

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Zerubabbel was a very wise man, like Joseph son of Jacob he impressed the rulers of the land in this case Babylon, can’t remember the name of the ruler, and was noble eneogh in his eyes that he could trust the jews as a neighbor nation as long as Zerubabbel was at the helm. He is accredited for returning the Jews to the Torah, rebuilding the second Temple and it is written that he is one of the two olive trees that stand before the Lord.
Ryan posted a link forums.catholic-questions.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=4877098
 
It is good that you are.🙂

I think it is important to ask God for a humble and open heart when we search.
🙂 Hi Ben:wave: remember you said it was ok to ask questons and there is something that realy barthers me this is off the record and only ment for Ben,and Ben there is no offence intended where did the calling of the word father come from? And is still used today. Didn’t Jesus say not to call no man father? I know he did but why do the Catholic use that term? Please get back I’ll be here tomorrow love of Christ Nancy
 
you are a teacher? You should be.Wher did you get this infor.? Is this the way the Jews think?I think the red heifer will show when God puts it there on a farm out in the boomies in Isreal somewhere.The US is trying to clone them to get the one without spot or blemish but it did not happen that way back then it was natural.love of Christ Nancy God Bless.
Hi Nancy,

Thank you for your kind words. I do not have formal training as a teacher. This information is available on the web. I put the link to the website in blue in the previous post. Click on it and it will take you to the website and then you can read the whole article.

A red heifer was born in Israel in 1997, I think, but it was disqualified to be the used. Another red heifer was born in Texas a few years ago. I don’t know about the qualification of that one. But the temple has to be built before the heifer can be sacrificed and the heifer can be only 2 or 3 years old in order to qualify. So until the temple is rebuilt, I don’t think that we have to be concerned about it.

Pax,
SHW
 
JL: I enjoyed your post:thumbsup: I was struck that many believe the Messiah cannot come until a Temple is rebuilt and I think I read that some believe there will be three Temples.

My thoughts were the 3rd Temple is being built by the Son of David, Christ. When the last living stone is in place he will return.
Hi JL,

I read somewhere that some scholars and/or mystics believe that after the 3rd temple is built, that the two witnesses, Enoch and Elias (Elijah), will take the Blessed Sacrament and put it upon their altar and it is then that the Jews will believe in Jesus Christ as Messiah.

Pax,
SHW
 
Zerubabbel was a very wise man, like Joseph son of Jacob he impressed the rulers of the land in this case Babylon, can’t remember the name of the ruler, and was noble eneogh in his eyes that he could trust the jews as a neighbor nation as long as Zerubabbel was at the helm. He is accredited for returning the Jews to the Torah, rebuilding the second Temple and it is written that he is one of the two olive trees that stand before the Lord.
Ryan posted a link forums.catholic-questions.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=4877098
Thanks!

Pax,
SHW
 
🙂 Hi Ben:wave: remember you said it was ok to ask questons and there is something that realy barthers me this is off the record and only ment for Ben,and Ben there is no offence intended where did the calling of the word father come from? And is still used today. Didn’t Jesus say not to call no man father? I know he did but why do the Catholic use that term? Please get back I’ll be here tomorrow love of Christ Nancy
Hi Nancy,

I hope you don’t mind that I answer your post in addition to Ben’s answer, but I wanted you to know that I wrote a paper on this subject (about calling men “father”) a while back and you can read it by clicking here: members.cox.net/studyhisword/CallNoManFather.pdf

Pax,
SHW
 
🙂 Hi Ben:wave: remember you said it was ok to ask questons and there is something that realy barthers me this is off the record and only ment for Ben,and Ben there is no offence intended where did the calling of the word father come from? And is still used today.
Hi Nancy,

Click on the this link to another thread here at CAF titled **When did the church start calling the **pastors Fathers?
http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=304918

It is a short thread only (as of today only 8 very short posts) so worth the visit.

In summary,St Paul was referred to as father so it started pretty much during the Chuch’s infancy but the terminology did not come into popular usage until the 1800s and may have been influenced by monastic life where the “head” monk is the abbot which literally means father.
Didn’t Jesus say not to call no man father? I know he did but why do the Catholic use that term? Please get back I’ll be here tomorrow love of Christ Nancy
SHW answered this very well in the article he wrote the link of which is in his post above.

In short however, Jesus did not mean this literally because if he did, then you will going against God’s command if you called your biological father, father, wouldn’t you? Also, your children therefore cannot call your husband their father.

So as you can see the protestant interpretation of this verse is illogical and actually contradicts scripture because in other verses of scripture, Abraham, David and St Paul are referred to as fathers.

You could say that this is one protestant arguement that simply does not hold water.

For a more detailed explanation with heaps of Biblical support here are two links which you might want to read at your leisure.

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/the_priesthood.html

http://www.catholic.com/library/Call_No_Man_Father.asp
 
🙂 Hi Ben:wave: remember you said it was ok to ask questons and there is something that realy barthers me this is off the record and only ment for Ben,and Ben there is no offence intended where did the calling of the word father come from? And is still used today. Didn’t Jesus say not to call no man father? I know he did but why do the Catholic use that term? Please get back I’ll be here tomorrow love of Christ Nancy
Hi Nancy,
looks like I can only add a tidbit to what has already been posted:)

I think what Jesus is concerned with in this chapter is the Jewish teachers who would lead them away from Himself. The whole chapter is devoted to admonishing the Jewish teachers who point out themselves as examples of holiness.

Also I think He is teaching His oneness with His Father in heaven and implicating that there should be no man on earth who should be followed as He and His Father, whom He reveals in Himself are followed. In other words, no man should point to himself as something to be followed but should point to Jesus who is the only One who knows and reveals the Father.
 
Hi Nancy,

I hope you don’t mind that I answer your post in addition to Ben’s answer, but I wanted you to know that I wrote a paper on this subject (about calling men “father”) a while back and you can read it by clicking here: members.cox.net/studyhisword/CallNoManFather.pdf

Pax,
SHW
:confused: I read the whole thing and I’m still confused because it say’s in Mathew"23:9 no one on earth not just the Jews and I know back before christ Abraham was called father because God told him he would be the father of nations. That was a promise he gave only him. And I call my dad( dad )we can refere to the subject as father but we should not call anyone father Jesus referes also to satan your father the devil,about Judas meaning spiritual relation to him. ???Nancy
 
Hi Nancy,
looks like I can only add a tidbit to what has already been posted:)

I think what Jesus is concerned with in this chapter is the Jewish teachers who would lead them away from Himself. The whole chapter is devoted to admonishing the Jewish teachers who point out themselves as examples of holiness.

Also I think He is teaching His oneness with His Father in heaven and implicating that there should be no man on earth who should be followed as He and His Father, whom He reveals in Himself are followed. In other words, no man should point to himself as something to be followed but should point to Jesus who is the only One who knows and reveals the Father.
🙂 Some call the Pope Holy Father Pope Benidict you are all holy and i do not call you Father,You have the Holy Spirit and know The Father in heaven I do not call you Father.I do know some priests before they were ordained and i still call them Bob and Dan we are friends.The Monks of Western Priory are called Brothers and I write to them and call them Brother and I love their music. love of Christ Nancy
 
:confused: I read the whole thing and I’m still confused because it say’s in Mathew"23:9 no one on earth not just the Jews and I know back before christ Abraham was called father because God told him he would be the father of nations. That was a promise he gave only him. And I call my dad( dad )we can refere to the subject as father but we should not call anyone father Jesus referes also to satan your father the devil,about Judas meaning spiritual relation to him. ???Nancy
Hi Nancy,

A child learns how to behave by watching his father. But some fathers do bad things. So Jesus is saying that we should not copy the bad behavior of our fathers if they do bad things and that these bad fathers do not really deserve to be called by the title of “Father” if they are bad examples for us.

Jesus used exaggeration to make His point that not all persons in authority (Jewish leaders)** deserve** to be called fathers because they are very bad examples. All fathers should be good examples so that they can deserve to be called “father.” Abraham was a good example for all of us to follow, so he deserves to be called a Father.

Jesus does not really want us to think that we cannot call our biological male parent “Father.” He means that our church leaders (fathers or priests, bishops, deacons) and biological fathers should have good conduct so that they are good examples for all of us so that they can deserve to be called Fathers. It is okay for you to call your Dad “Father” also if you want to. I always called my father “Dad” because it was easier and faster to say than Father. 🙂

Scripture was written a long time ago and their way of speaking is not the same as ours is today. This makes Scripture hard to understand sometimes.

Pax,
SHW
 
You don’t need one. You can read the quote yourself. The Christian site completely overrated the agreement and put it as something new. It was just the pope stating that we can agree with Luther if you define faith as working in love. Nothing new there.

My question is since most Lutherans TODAY would define faith in the same manner as Catholics, what did Luther actually mean and have his followers misunderstood his message more recently?
:o Sicse luther was a Catholic priest he took alot of thr knowledge with him,and therefor hr knew the bible ok/ I’m fallikg to sleep i’mgoing to bed Night
Nancy
 
the dragon’s lies have been the same since the beginning. Here they are again, I’m trying to explain this as best as I can:

**Analysis of Genesis 3 and Apocalypse 13

“Did God really say…?”**
"You will surely not die!"

Translation: God is a liar, he does not determine the truth, He is NOT the truth. You determine the truth in the order of religion and morals. Therefore, have no regard for what God’s Truth, nor to do His Will. Do you your own will, whatever it may be, and there will be NO consequences, neither temporal nor eternal.

Humanity’s embrace of the lie is seen in Apocalypse 13:

"Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with it?"

This first great lie is the antithesis of Baptism. It utterly undoes one’s innocence before God and renders one a child of the devil if embraced. For this reason, does the Catechumen who stands before the priest to receive the waters of Baptism, go back to the Garden and undo the lies of the serpent. This reveals, through the very sacred liturgy of the Church, the reality that Baptism, or the desire thereof, is necessary for salvation, either explicitly or implicitly, for it is here the first great lie of the dragon is undone…

“Do you reject sin, so as to live in the freedom of the children of God? Do you reject Satan, the Father of lies? And all his empty promises?”

The second lie is contained in the symbolism of the trees of the garden, and especially the forbidden tree.

In effect, the trees symbolize the creation itself in relation to the Divine Purpose and Love.

Partaking of the legitimate trees in the garden is a symbol of RECEIVING, in humble LOVE, the Creation from God and using it according to its Divine Purpose and Order. Behold the Creation is good, for it is a sign of Divine and Spiritual mysteries, it teaches us things of God, and it is a means, through the very physical essence of things, to love God and others. It is meant to be received from God, and offered to one another and back to God in love. This is the supreme meaning of the SACRAMENTALTIY and SIGN of Creation.

Partaking of the forbidden tree, on the other hand, symbolizes a selfish rejection of the Divine Purpose and Love in Creation, GRASPING from God this creation, DIVORCING it from the context of its beautiful order, purpose, love, and mystery, and TAKING it ONLY for its brute superificialities. Further, man, in the second lie, is in effect choosing as his ultimate end the CreaTION instead of His CreaTOR. In other words, the taking of the forbidden fruit symbolizes the total REJECTION of God’s sacramentality in the Creation and of man placing himself “ye shall be as gods”] and the Creation ABOVE the Creator.

Therefore does the CCC corroborate this apocalyptic mystery in the section on the deception of antichrist:
Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers. The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth will unveil the “mystery of iniquity” in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist,* a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh*.
So, again, the central sin of the fall is:

first, the rejection of God’s soveriegnty as the arbiter of truth and the truth Himself and the denial of the necessity to obey the Divine Will as well as the consequences of such disobedience,

and secondly, the utterly anti-sacramental rejection of the Creation from God, man raising himself and the creation above the Creator, where man believes he can fulfill himself intrinsically with the CreaTION alone, rather than in eternal covenant with the CreaTOR.

We have seen that the first lie is the utter antithesis to the Baptismal disposition. Therefore, the first lie is adequately, anti-Baptism.

For the symbolism of the second lie, we have seen that since this very lie is the utter rejection of the SACRAMENTALITY of creation, so this lie should find its best symbol in the debasing mockery of the SUPREME SACRAMENTAL SIGN itself, which is, by JPII’s theology of the body, MARRIAGE. Therefore, just as the just of Salvation History are repeatedly depicted as the SPOUSE or BRIDE of God, called to the supreme gift and reception of self, to love forever in immersion of depth in intellect and will, so the WHORE, that anti-symbol of the chaste Bride, forms the precise sign of the devil’s children, those who do not seek the eternal marriage with God forever in heaven, but choose to “fornicate” superficially with the world, with THIS creation, a creation utterly stripped of its sign of love and mystery, and taken only for its brute, materialistic superficialities. Hence, the second lie is anti-Marriage.

We have seen that heretics retain only two of the seven sacraments, Baptism and Marriage. The Christ instituted seven sacraments. Tertullian taught that the devil plaigarizes and mocks the good things of God, especially the sacraments. Therefore, why not see the two horns, like a Lamb, of the false prophet, as the dragon’s two primary lies in the fall, the two lies that summarize all sin and iniquity, which are precisely the mockery and debasement of the two sacraments left to heretics, Baptism and Marriage, so as to make them “the ultimate heresy.”
 
:(Hi Spauline,Good to hear from you how have you been? Say, I was Baptized catholic,and Baptist and I made my first communion and conformation,married, and I dont believe in Mocking God or his People.Your right about this rotton generation of unbelieving vipers. But I do believe the ones who love ,truley love, God knows who they are and he will decide who will go to his kingdom and serve him. People do say Good is Bad and Bad is Good,but I think of Christ and what he told all that believe on and in him"Take my yoke upon you for my yoke is easy and my burdens light,He also said do not let the Sabbath be a burden unto you,I do go into his rest,trust me I do.;)You have no idea who the false prophet is or where he will come from,or the Beast.You have a system,doctrines,rules,but if you have not LOVE you are an empty vessel. How many souls have you won for God with your words and Knowledge??CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH page:585 Life in Christ 2435
in your humble service Nancy CHRISTIAN PRAYER page :615 :2565 :confused:
 
:(Hi Spauline,Good to hear from you how have you been? Say, I was Baptized catholic,and Baptist and I made my first communion and conformation,married, and I dont believe in Mocking God or his People.Your right about this rotton generation of unbelieving vipers. But I do believe the ones who love ,truley love, God knows who they are and he will decide who will go to his kingdom and serve him. People do say Good is Bad and Bad is Good,but I think of Christ and what he told all that believe on and in him"Take my yoke upon you for my yoke is easy and my burdens light,He also said do not let the Sabbath be a burden unto you,I do go into his rest,trust me I do.;)You have no idea who the false prophet is or where he will come from,or the Beast.You have a system,doctrines,rules,but if you have not LOVE you are an empty vessel. How many souls have you won for God with your words and Knowledge??CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH page:585 Life in Christ 2435
in your humble service Nancy CHRISTIAN PRAYER page :615 :2565 :confused:
please be careful, nancy and read CAREFULLY. I did NOT say that Protestants who have only Baptism and Marriage are the false prophet. I said that the dragons’ lies of TWISTING and MOCKING Baptism and Marriage are the false prophet.

The Protestants certainly do NOT mock Baptism and Marriage. But the lies of the dragon in the fall and through the evil periods of history DO.

Protestants ARE children of God and their Baptism and Marriage is GOOD.

It is the atheists and relativists of today that are mocking what goodness is LEFT in Baptism and Marriage, THEY are the false prophets, not good Protestants such as yourself.

God bless you, Nancy.
:(:o
 
first, the rejection of God’s soveriegnty as the arbiter of truth and the truth Himself and the denial of the necessity to obey the Divine Will as well as the consequences of such disobedience,

and secondly, the utterly anti-sacramental rejection of the Creation from God, man raising himself and the creation above the Creator, where man believes he can fulfill himself intrinsically with the CreaTION alone, rather than in eternal covenant with the CreaTOR.
I absolutely agree. The rabbinic Gematria of 666 proves your point. Six stands symbolically as the number of man. Even the powerful trinity of man never adds up to more than just finite man. It can never be 777 (perfection), much less 888 (Christ conquered death on the eighth day).
 
I absolutely agree. The rabbinic Gematria of 666 proves your point. Six stands symbolically as the number of man. Even the powerful trinity of man never adds up to more than just finite man. It can never be 777 (perfection), much less 888 (Christ conquered death on the eighth day).
thanks for standing by me, Ryan. GBU!
🙂
scott
 
thanks for standing by me, Ryan. GBU!
🙂
scott
You’re welcome. Your part I quoted is true in the historical context as well. Although there is more of a focus on loyalty to worshiping the New Covenant sacrifice vs. worshiping men (and the consequences involved).

Peace
 
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