What if you cannot reconcile your conscience with church teaching?

[TruthSkr]

For many years I had issues with the Catholic Church’s teaching on artificial contraception. I didn’t understand it, didn’t belive it, refused to accept it. I drifted away from the church for many years and then came back after a crisis. I decided at that time that I was going to either accept all that the church teaches or find myself another faith. So I joined a bible study group and for nearly a year I prayed and opened my heart to seek the truth no matter how hard it might be to accept. Finally, after waiting for months for someone to bring this subject up in class I brought it up myself and was amazed at the wealth of information I was given. One of the most convincing pieces of work that single handedly changed my mind was a CD by Dr. Janet Smith, “Contraception, Why Not?” What it took to change my mind and my conscience was good information, an open mind, and prayer, lots of prayer. My advice is to never stop seeking the truth, no matter how long it takes or how difficult it may be. You will not be disappointed.

 

[BobP123]

For many years I had issues with the Catholic Church’s teaching on artificial contraception.

This is not surprising given that the Paul VI had written Progressio Populorum and had even assembled a whole ton of theologians to discuss the issue of AC. For many Catholics it was a hope that the Church would allow it. Many priests (and bishops?) gave the “use your conscience” argument and many Catholics (not I) to this day still think it’s morally ok to AC.

You cannot reconcile your conscience with church teaching?

In what matters exactly?

the catechism is not THE Magisterium.

OK, but please don’t say the Pope is. I don’t want to be seen kissing the Koran.

 

[not_a_theist]

The question is whether they even had consciences. After a lifetime of brainwashing, it becomes a game of survival.

That’s a complex topic.

As far as I know, many of the Death’s Head squads were living contradictions. Loving family fathers who committed one atrocity after the other.

A totalitarian regime can and will twist people’s minds, but it wasn’t in power for all that long. “Hitler’s Last Courier” is a chilling and disturbing testimony of the effects of indoctrination, by the way. The larger part of the answer is perhaps that the regime’s propaganda machine was a very shrewd judge of human nature. If you can manage to dehumanize the victims, they cease to be victims and become merely the subjects of an exercise in logistics.

I don’t know if the rank and file of the camp guards were manipulated to do something against their conscience or if they didn’t have one to begin with. However, demographics suggest that like the general German population, about half of the guards were Catholics. It’s safe to say that Catholic moral teachings didn’t prevent the Holocaust, which makes the original question somewhat specious.

I don’t know what I would have done had I lived in that time and place and that’s all the answer I can and will give.

 

[BobP123]

I don’t know what I would have done had I lived in that time and place and that’s all the answer I can and will give.

My sentiments as well. Times and circumstances and public acceptance change. These too are instrumental in forming your conscience, not necessarily for your betterment.

I’m always reminded by the acceptance of slavery going all the way back to ancient history, even being “accepted” by Christ during His days on earth. Today slavery, of course, is sinful and downright despicable. There is no sugar-coating it, although some of the movies do a pretty good job of doing it.

 

[Corki]

I hate to split hairs but I believe that the Church, in it’s infinite wisdom leaves some definitions open because not every case can be neatly wrapped up. In almost every instance I would agree, as I have stated before, that a well-formed conscience will not go against clearly defined Church teaching. However, I am willing to accept that there may exist someone in this world who BELIEVES in their heart that they have a fully formed conscience and that that conscience is directing them to do something contrary to Church teaching. Assuming that person has done everything in their power (pray, seek spiritual direction…etc) to properly form their conscience…and at the end of the day they still believe their course of action is correct…then they should follow their conscience.

I disagree. If someone finds themselves in that position, they would be obliged to NOT act. If someone feels that Church teaching is directing someone to act in conflict with what they believe is a properly formed conscience, I think primacy of conscience would allow them to refuse to act. But to actually act in opposition to Church teaching would be grave.

An example that is sometimes used is slavery. If the Church said it was ok to own slaves (I’m not saying She did) and your conscience directs you to disagree, you are not in error if you decide not to own slaves. However, if the Chuch says not to own slaves, you can’t decide to own them anyway and invoke the primacy of conscience claim.

 

[FrankLawrence]

You need to ask yourself what is at the heart of your conscience conflicting with Church teachings. Were you once a Protestant? If so, when converting or reverting to the Catholic Church, have you been able to overcome the mental hurdle of a Sola-Scriptura mentality. In other words, do you object to whatever Church teaching it is, on the grounds that you feel that the Bible says doesn’t support it, or maybe even seems to contradicts it? If, so, then I would recommend praying to lose the Sola-Scriptura mindset.

 

[Abira]

Okay, I’ve only just found time to get to my computer…massive thanks to everyone’s replies, I think the general agreement is that where matters are taught plainly we should follow the church and on matters that are a little hazy and not so clear we are free to follow our informed conscience.

I don’t know how many more years I’ll have to spend thinking about this for it to qualify as informing my conscience lol…I think it’s been about 10 years now…

I haven’t really got much to add to the conversation so I’ve been a silent reader on the thread

Thanks a lot,

S

 

[Abira]

You need to ask yourself what is at the heart of your conscience conflicting with Church teachings. Were you once a Protestant? If so, when converting or reverting to the Catholic Church, have you been able to overcome the mental hurdle of a Sola-Scriptura mentality. In other words, do you object to whatever Church teaching it is, on the grounds that you feel that the Bible says doesn’t support it, or maybe even seems to contradicts it? If, so, then I would recommend praying to lose the Sola-Scriptura mindset.

lol, it’s interesting that a few posters have picked up on the above.

I’m a protestant that was thinking of converting, and have been on and off considering it for a while now. I can’t convert at the moment as this issue would prevent me from living a Catholic lifestyle and I would feel that if I converted I would want to keep my integrity and fully convert and be in full communion with the CC…and to the above, no I don’t believe on sola scriptura… as it teaches differently in the Bible lol lol

on many issues I have kinda come to church teaching initially dismissive and after accepting that there is a wealth of knowledge that can see further than I can I have come to an understanding about loads of issues… but this issue I’m dealing with has remained and is a real barrier for me.

It’s nice that everyone has different things they struggle with as this thread has really dealt with my question rather than getting snagged on the smaller details of my personal problem.

S

 

[mercygate]

lol, it’s interesting that a few posters have picked up on the above.

I’m a protestant that was thinking of converting, and have been on and off considering it for a while now. I can’t convert at the moment as this issue would prevent me from living a Catholic lifestyle and I would feel that if I converted I would want to keep my integrity and fully convert and be in full communion with the CC…and to the above, no I don’t believe on sola scriptura… as it teaches differently in the Bible lol lol

on many issues I have kinda come to church teaching initially dismissive and after accepting that there is a wealth of knowledge that can see further than I can I have come to an understanding about loads of issues… but this issue I’m dealing with has remained and is a real barrier for me.

It’s nice that everyone has different things they struggle with as this thread has really dealt with my question rather than getting snagged on the smaller details of my personal problem.

S

Lemme take a wild, WILD guess: Contraception. Right?

 

[Abira]

Lemme take a wild, WILD guess: Contraception. Right?

nope lol…anyway i didnt want a thread about an issue but a question of what to do when you have issues lol

S

 

[fix]

I hate to split hairs but I believe that the Church, in it’s infinite wisdom leaves some definitions open because not every case can be neatly wrapped up. In almost every instance I would agree, as I have stated before, that a well-formed conscience will not go against clearly defined Church teaching. However, I am willing to accept that there may exist someone in this world who BELIEVES in their heart that they have a fully formed conscience and that that conscience is directing them to do something contrary to Church teaching. Assuming that person has done everything in their power (pray, seek spiritual direction…etc) to properly form their conscience…and at the end of the day they still believe their course of action is correct…then they should follow their conscience.

That only means the person rejects the authority of the Church. In such a case the problem is really much deeper than any particular moral question. The problem is the person in question has placed themselves above the Church and I would argue above Christ.

 

[fix]

"If you have done everything within your power to understand the specific teaching, you have spent time in prayer, you have sought spiritual guidance, you have studied, you have tried to accept the teaching, you have prayed some more, you have sought the voice of the Lord…and your conscience still tells you to contradict Church teaching, well then you should follow that conscience.

Why? That would make conscience superior to truth.

When you die, and stand before God to be judged, I believe he will say “You know that Church teaching that your conscience told you wasn’t right? Well it was…and you were wrong…but come on in anyway.”

That seems to pervert what conscience is. Conscience is not the ultimate guide. If it were then the Church would not need to exist we each could simply claim we prayed about this or that and then were free to act as we desire.

 

[rwoehmke]

Lemme take a wild, WILD guess: Contraception. Right?

I am a lifelong Catholic and it has always been amazing to me that when someone says “morality” the first thought or image that appears in the Catholic’s mind is “sex.” Even on the morality forum, it seems to outdo every other topic of moral behavior and arouises the most heat in discussions. Interesting!

I suppose since these are Catholic Forums it is natural to discuss things only from a Catholic viewpoint, but I cannot help but wonder where does this discussion leave a non-Catholic when it comes to questions of following one’s properly formed conscience? After all they are not likely to be heavily influenced or obedient to Catholic teaching.

 

[mercygate]

I am a lifelong Catholic and it has always been amazing to me that when someone says “morality” the first thought or image that appears in the Catholic’s mind is “sex.” Even on the morality forum, it seems to outdo every other topic of moral behavior and arouises the most heat in discussions. Interesting!

I suppose since these are Catholic Forums it is natural to discuss things only from a Catholic viewpoint, but I cannot help but wonder where does this discussion leave a non-Catholic when it comes to questions of following one’s properly formed conscience? After all they are not likely to be heavily influenced or obedient to Catholic teaching.

Not sure what this is about, and though our OP may not be quibbling about contraception, 99% of the time when non-Catholics (as well as Catholics) have a matter of “conscience” it’s about 8 inches below the belt buckle.

How many people come out in opposition to the Church’s social teaching? The things that affect “conscience” are matters of morality, of which life issues are a HUGE part.

 

[rwoehmke]

I was not quibbling over your assessment nof what blocks non-Catholics from coming into the Church. I meant to comment only that when a Catholic hears the word morality, the first thought is swexual morality. My experience in 20 years of RCIA is that the biggest hurdle seems to be the place of Mary in the Catholic Faith. Maybe we don’t even see those who are blocked by the prohibition of ABC.

The other point was what standard do non-Catholics have in forming their consciences? It sure would not be the teaching of the Catholic Church.
ti

 

[rlg94086]

I was not quibbling over your assessment nof what blocks non-Catholics from coming into the Church. I meant to comment only that when a Catholic hears the word morality, the first thought is swexual morality. My experience in 20 years of RCIA is that the biggest hurdle seems to be the place of Mary in the Catholic Faith. Maybe we don’t even see those who are blocked by the prohibition of ABC.

The other point was what standard do non-Catholics have in forming their consciences? It sure would not be the teaching of the Catholic Church.
ti

I agree with mercygate. As a convert myself, I had difficulty with Mary, but it was never a problem with conscience. What I personally experienced and have heard from multiple Catholics is a justification of ABC with “primacy of conscience.” And, where did I get that misunderstanding of conscience? From my priest during RCIA.

 

[DallasCatholic]

Why? That would make conscience superior to truth.

That seems to pervert what conscience is. Conscience is not the ultimate guide. If it were then the Church would not need to exist we each could simply claim we prayed about this or that and then were free to act as we desire.

I would refer you to the catechism which clearly states that a Catholic is required to follow their conscience. The exact paragraphs were listed in an earlier post.

 

[catharina]

Hi everyone…

It’s a simple question really…what if:

You cannot reconcile your conscience with church teaching?​

and you:

know you are morally obliged to follow you conscience (at all times?)

have fully, or to the best of your ability, informed your conscience

have read book after book and tried discussing this issue around other topics

have gone away from the forums for months to think and still **feel **the same way, but know that the church does not teach how you feel you should act on an issue​

I’ve left the issue I’m thinking of as a blank as in a way it’s kinda not relevent to the question… but I don’t mind if anyone needs to know to answer me better or if anyone PM’s me… and also I guess a lot of people struggle to unify their own thoughts with the church’s… what do you do if you cannot do this? What happens if you never manage it and should follow your conscience?

Thanks a lot,

S

Abira, hi. I just noticed your question this morning and have to admit I’ve not read the entire thread. However, I bolded one word in your initial post since I think that explains all.

We are not asked to “feel” in regard to our faith. We are asked to conform our will; meaning we chose to accept teachings as an act of the will whether we do or do not “feel” comfortable about it. Any number of teachings might “feel” odd to different individuals but in fact, that can’t be a deciding factor regarding faith.

Hope that helps. (Remember too that Satan is known as the great deceiver; he can shoot down reasons and feelings faster that you can generate them. Whatever the issue for you, let it go, please. Simply offer your humble obedience and acceptance to God.

 

[jmcrae]

I would refer you to the catechism which clearly states that a Catholic is required to follow their conscience. The exact paragraphs were listed in an earlier post.

The context of it was also given, which is that if someone has a poorly formed conscience, he is not required to follow it - he may use the Church’s teachings as his guide, instead.

We also have to be very careful not to mistake our personal opinions for our conscience, as well. (If you ever find yourself saying, "I know this is wrong, but I think …) then you are placing your personal opinion (the “I think” part) above your own conscience (the “I know this is wrong” part).

 

[fix]

I would refer you to the catechism which clearly states that a Catholic is required to follow their conscience. The exact paragraphs were listed in an earlier post.

Yes, all of the CCC must be reconciled. So in this example it says:

1790 A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience. If he were deliberately to act against it, he would condemn himself. Yet it can happen that moral conscience remains in ignorance and makes erroneous judgments about acts to be performed or already committed.

and

1791 This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man "takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin."59 In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits.

and

2039… Personal conscience and reason should not be set in opposition to the moral law or the Magisterium of the Church.

and

1792 Ignorance of Christ and his Gospel, bad example given by others, enslavement to one’s passions, assertion of a mistaken notion of autonomy of conscience, rejection of the Church’s authority and her teaching, lack of conversion and of charity: these can be at the source of errors of judgment in moral conduct.

So, while it is true we must follow our conscience that does not mean an erroneous conscience is always nonculpable. In fact it would seem once one has encountered what the church authentically teaches and refuses to accept Her authority one would be hard pressed to claim non culpable ignorance.