What if you cannot reconcile your conscience with church teaching?

[Abira]

Abira;

If Christ is calling you to become a Catholic, then of course you must follow Him, and trust that He will crush all of the obstacles in your path in His good time.

Sometimes, we just need to make a leap of faith.

lol i know - i just need a bigger run-up

 

[jmcrae]

lol i know - i just need a bigger run-up

Need a push?

(Late registrations for RCIA are ending soon - after that, you’ll have to wait until next year to start to become Catholic.)

 

[Orionthehunter]

I hate to split hairs but I believe that the Church, in it’s infinite wisdom leaves some definitions open because not every case can be neatly wrapped up. In almost every instance I would agree, as I have stated before, that a well-formed conscience will not go against clearly defined Church teaching. However, I am willing to accept that there may exist someone in this world who BELIEVES in their heart that they have a fully formed conscience and that that conscience is directing them to do something contrary to Church teaching. Assuming that person has done everything in their power (pray, seek spiritual direction…etc) to properly form their conscience…and at the end of the day they still believe their course of action is correct…then they should follow their conscience.

I agree totally with this statement but not with what I believe is your intention Dallas. In the end, by definition, a conscience not in unity with divine and natural law is an ill-formed conscience.

Sometimes it is in following our ill-formed conscience after prayer, study etc that we open ourselves more forthrightly to the Holy Spirit. It is in making the choice despite knowledge of Church Teaching that our conscience will convict us.

Let me give an example. One studies and knows the Church teaching on contraception. They go through a lot of mental and spiritual rationalizations to justify their behavior of practicing ABC. But they stay with prayer and study (mostly prayer) and don’t just move on. This openness to the whisperings of the Holy Spirit via their conscience will deny them the Peace they desire.

ABC isn’t the big sin. The big sin is placing our desires and wants above that of God. It is the ABC that will make the sinner face the depth of their selfishness and ultimately lead to a true conversion.

But this all supposes that one is really open to the Holy Spirit. Under the auspices of "following their concience (the aboriginal Christ deep in our hearts), one can be committing a grave sin of placing ones own wants, needs, and knowledge above that of God. And to misuse Church Teaching on conscience to justify it only compounds the gravity.

 

[Pat_the_Cat]

Be sure not to confuse your **conscience **with your feelings. Your reason and intellect should be making your decisions NOT your instincts and feelings.

:twocents: If you have a dilemma of any sort between your conscience and offical teachings of the Church, then you can rest assured that by obedience to the Churches teachings your conscience will be clear. This is part of the formation of the conscience, making our will more completely united to Holy Mother Church. Take your dilemma to a priest in confession, where you can recieve the Sacramental grace to help form your conscience.

 

[LSK]

Hi everyone…

It’s a simple question really…what if:

You cannot reconcile your conscience with church teaching?​

and you:

know you are morally obliged to follow you conscience (at all times?)

have fully, or to the best of your ability, informed your conscience

have read book after book and tried discussing this issue around other topics

have gone away from the forums for months to think and still feel the same way, but know that the church does not teach how you feel you should act on an issue​

I’ve left the issue I’m thinking of as a blank as in a way it’s kinda not relevent to the question… but I don’t mind if anyone needs to know to answer me better or if anyone PM’s me… and also I guess a lot of people struggle to unify their own thoughts with the church’s… what do you do if you cannot do this? What happens if you never manage it and should follow your conscience?

Thanks a lot,

S

I went through exactly this when I first returned to the Church. I had to ask myself what was more important, receiving Jesus in The Eucharist or ‘following my conscience’. I made the decision that, no matter what, I would no longer put myself in a position of not being able to receive Holy Communion. So, I accepted the teaching of the Church that I ‘disagreed with’ and practiced the spiritual axiom of obedience.
I continued to pray and study about it.
To my utter amazement, because I was in the position to receive both the Sacrament of Penance on a regular basis and Holy Communion, I found my heart and mind opened by the Holy Spirit…and my conscience began to change.
What I discovered was that it was not my conscience at all…it was an opinion…and as my experience changed, so did my opinion.
I hope this helps.

 

[mercygate]

I went through exactly this when I first returned to the Church. I had to ask myself what was more important, receiving Jesus in The Eucharist or ‘following my conscience’. I made the decision that, no matter what, I would no longer put myself in a position of not being able to receive Holy Communion. So, I accepted the teaching of the Church that I ‘disagreed with’ and practiced the spiritual axiom of obedience.
I continued to pray and study about it.
To my utter amazement, because I was in the position to receive both the Sacrament of Penance on a regular basis and Holy Communion, I found my heart and mind opened by the Holy Spirit…and my conscience began to change.
What I discovered was that it was not my conscience at all…it was an opinion…and as my experience changed, so did my opinion.
I hope this helps.

Getting God-bumps here. ABSOLUTELY! Some things just have to be lived to be appreciated and understood. “We believe in order that we may understand!”

 

[Voco_proTatiano]

Hi everyone…

It’s a simple question really…what if:

You cannot reconcile your conscience with church teaching?​

and you:

know you are morally obliged to follow you conscience (at all times?)

have fully, or to the best of your ability, informed your conscience

have read book after book and tried discussing this issue around other topics

have gone away from the forums for months to think and still feel the same way, but know that the church does not teach how you feel you should act on an issue​

I’ve left the issue I’m thinking of as a blank as in a way it’s kinda not relevent to the question… but I don’t mind if anyone needs to know to answer me better or if anyone PM’s me… and also I guess a lot of people struggle to unify their own thoughts with the church’s… what do you do if you cannot do this? What happens if you never manage it and should follow your conscience?

Thanks a lot,

S

Dear Abira,
Paradoxically, this seems to come under the heading of ‘invincible ignorance’
My reasoning is in this wise:
You have sought the best advice you can find, and
you have logically worked out your reasoning.
You are thus utterly convinced that you have made no errors, and
thus consider your position to be correct.
You may in fact be in error,
but that is not the point here.
You conviction is unassailable,
Thus no matter how well the contrary argument might be argued,
you are not convinced.
This in fact is precisely the definition of ‘invincible ignorance’.
Thus though you may in fact be in error, you will not be held culpable, because the fault for your position is not your deliberate error, but the inability for your position to be overcome by logical argument.

 

[Penny_Plain]

If we are to be guided at all times by the Magisterium, etc., why do we need a conscience at all?

 

[mercygate]

If we are to be guided at all times by the Magisterium, etc., why do we need a conscience at all?

The question should go the other way: Why do we need the Magisterium if we have a conscience?

The practical answer is that an individual conscience may be clouded by ignorance (full or partial) and corrupted by culture or personal circumstances.

The Magisterium (under divine guidance) forms the teachings of the Church according to wide-reaching and dispassionate norms, out of a profound knowledge of natural law, Scripture, and Holy Tradition.

Conscience means “knowing with” There is a lot more “WITH” in the Magisterial font than in my little pea brain – even why my brain is pretty good.

 

[Voco_proTatiano]

The word “conscience” itself, has something to say about this. It means, literally, “knowing *with.” *So, if your ‘conscience’ tells you something that is against the natural moral law, and against Church teaching, you are not “knowing with” you are “knowing against.”

No Friend, The word does not mean ‘knowing with’, it means ‘with knowing’.
It has the same root as consciousness, or awareness.

 

[mercygate]

No Friend, The word does not mean ‘knowing with’, it means ‘with knowing’.
It has the same root as consciousness, or awareness.

OK. But in this case conscience also requires “knowing with” since the Magisterium is a global expression of what SHOULD be clear to the individual heart.

 

[catharina]

Abira, I decided to repeat my earlier post (#58) since in essence, many others have repeated this point. It is our feelings that might spark in compassion but it is our conscience that would lead us to act with compassion. Do you see this distinction? OTOH, we might feel repugnance at finding a person who is in extreme poverty with all of its smells and filth - but still, our conscience is to lead us into compassionate action. Feelings have little relevance to the formation of conscience.

…

We are not asked to “feel” in regard to our faith. We are asked to conform our will; meaning we chose to accept teachings as an act of the will whether we do or do not “feel” comfortable about it. Any number of teachings might “feel” odd to different individuals but in fact, that can’t be a deciding factor regarding faith.

Hope that helps. (Remember too that Satan is known as the great deceiver; he can shoot down reasons and feelings faster that you can generate them.) Whatever the issue for you, let it go, please. Simply offer your humble obedience and acceptance to God.

 

[fix]

Dear Abira,
Paradoxically, this seems to come under the heading of ‘invincible ignorance’
My reasoning is in this wise:
You have sought the best advice you can find, and
you have logically worked out your reasoning.
You are thus utterly convinced that you have made no errors, and
thus consider your position to be correct.
You may in fact be in error,
but that is not the point here.
You conviction is unassailable,
Thus no matter how well the contrary argument might be argued,
you are not convinced.
This in fact is precisely the definition of ‘invincible ignorance’.
Thus though you may in fact be in error, you will not be held culpable, because the fault for your position is not your deliberate error, but the inability for your position to be overcome by logical argument.

Of course, we cannot judge who has culpable ignorance, but a Catholic knows the Church is backed by Christ. How may a Catholic claim invincible ignorance when they can seek and find what the Church teaches?

 

[Voco_proTatiano]

Of course, we cannot judge who has culpable ignorance, but a Catholic knows the Church is backed by Christ. How may a Catholic claim invincible ignorance when they can seek and find what the Church teaches?

Very simple, however unlikely.
The enquirer has gone to the church for advice, but found that advice utterly unconvincing.
Thus the point of view, whether true or false, whether cognizant, or ignorant, is invincible.

 

[fix]

Very simple, however unlikely.
The enquirer has gone to the church for advice, but found that advice utterly unconvincing.
Thus the point of view, whether true or false, whether cognizant, or ignorant, is invincible.

That would not be invincible as they would be informed. They would have gained the necessary knowledge. If they reject that knowledge that makes one culpable, not non culpable.

 

[fix]

If we are to be guided at all times by the Magisterium, etc., why do we need a conscience at all?

How do you know when your conscience is wrong?

 

[deheister]

Can you point me to documentation that supports this? I would agree that if your conscience is telling you to go against a clear teaching then it is probably not “well-formed”…however AFAIK you are still bound to follow your conscience.

Your reference regarding culpability for your conscience is under Erroneous Judgment, 1790 - 1794. Humans do not have the liberty of “autonomy of conscience”, but are compelled by Truth (ie. Jesus) to follow Him wholly, which guidance and direction we get from the Catholic Church, established by Jesus Himself and protected by the Holy Spirit to be the infallible steward here on earth of the fullness of revealed truth.

We are morally bound to do the will of God, choosing good over evil. Exercising a “conscience” that is contrary to the will of God does not relieve one of the guilt of one’s actions.

 

[Arwen037]

Some times the Church is wrong. For example: Crusades, Inquisition. It depends on what the topic is. I’d suggest talking to a trusted priest or deacon about your problem with the Church’s teaching. There may be a misunderstanding somewhere.

 

[Orionthehunter]

Some times the Church is wrong. For example: Crusades, Inquisition. It depends on what the topic is. I’d suggest talking to a trusted priest or deacon about your problem with the Church’s teaching. There may be a misunderstanding somewhere.

The Crusades and the Inquisition are not a teaching of the Church. Never were the faithful required to accept or support either the Crusades or Inquisition as an Article of Faith, Dogma, Doctrine or even Discipline.

Even if the Crusades and Inquisition were wrong, it is not relevant to this discussion of conscience and Church Teaching. Just as one can disagree with the Pope on the death penalty or the Iraq war without regard to standing in the Church, one could oppose/not support the Crusades and Inquisition.

 

[puzzleannie]

Hi everyone…

It’s a simple question really…what if:

You cannot reconcile your conscience with church teaching?​

and you:

know you are morally obliged to follow you conscience (at all times?)

have fully, or to the best of your ability, informed your conscience

have read book after book and tried discussing this issue around other topics
S

you are obligated to continue for properly form your conscience on this issue. Conscience means above all conformity with and acceptance of God’s will in this matter, and it is not possible for solid, orthodox Church teaching to conflict with God’s will in the matter, since Christ promise the protection of the Holy Spirit on the Church’s teaching office. It logically follows then, that if we disagree or do not understand a teaching, the burden is on us to remedy our ignorance. since this is not a philosophical discussion but a moral and spiritual one, I suggest you move further discussion to the proper forum.