what if...

[reborn_pagan]

There is only one God.

There may be many ways to worship Him, that is, through Catholicism, Protestantism, and Judaism, even though we all may disagree with the procedures in place with these religions.

When one decides to become a parent, and is fortunate enough to bear a child, one raises it with love and guidance.

This means instilling in it the belief of God.

Study up on socialisation reborn_pagan, you will find that the path you would take as a parent would lead the child to be highly unsocialised.

At 15, you are too young to understand this fully. We all are, which is why there are laws in place for ages of consent.

Socialization is the process by which human beings or animals learn to adopt the behavior patterns of the community in which they live. For both humans and animals, this is typically thought to occur during the early stages of life, during which individuals develop the skills and knowledge necessary to function within their culture and environment. However, this also includes adult individuals moving into an environment significantly different from one(s) in which they have previously lived and must thus learn a new set of behaviors.

how bieng pagan and raising a child gonna make him or her unsocialised. ? and why is it just cause im younger than you means i dont or wont fully understand?

 

[Montalban]

Once again i have another question for everyone in here

What if…your child came up to you, or you found out…that they were wanting to start practicing a form of Paganism

Would you scold them,try and talk them out of it,let it go thinking its just a phase…or if you have another way of maybe dealing with it, if so lemme know

your wiccan friend,

reborn

p.s. i apolgize for the smileys im in a very happy mood

Paganism usually involves belief in a god that came about after the universe, and thus the ‘god’ is still in large part subject to the ‘laws’ of the universe.
(e.g. Jupiter (Zeus) came into being after the universe, and in fact over-threw the previous god/father Saturn (Cronus), who had in turn over-thrown his own father)

Many problems arise if even a ‘god’ is restricted to being ‘within’ the universal system (the Christian God is above and beyond the universe)

Also, from what we know about these particular gods they were quite vindictive. Along the lines of al-lah, the Moslem god, they ruled in an arbitrary way, where ‘goodness’ didn’t necessarily get you to heaven.

I would hope tha I’d have explained this before the issue of ‘conversion’ ever came up

 

[dranzal]

would you die for your belief?

Yes. **YES! **yes

Of course, I have one of my beautiful children, my Gabriel, already there smiling and waiting for his mama, daddy , brothers and sisters. This world is but a womb for the next, a mere shadow of what awaits us.

A thousand times Yes!

 

[KindredSoul]

im sorry i just think that its wrong to raise a child in only one track,

It’s only natural for you to feel that way, because you’re not Catholic, nor are you a follower or firm believer in any of the monotheistic missionary Faiths. You have a completely different standard of how important one certain belief is than Catholics…

For Catholics, there is only one Truth, Catholicism. There may be elements of truth in other religions, perhaps a great deal of truth in some, but Catholicism holds the Truth that cannot be contradicted. Likewise, Christianity in general holds this view in a more broad fashion, and all the monotheistic missionary religions feel this way about their particular religions, though not all practicioners may admit or realize that.

Since we believe that Truth, to suggest that something else is true will be no more convincing than to suggest that the effects of what we call gravity do not exist. In not caring what our children (hypothetically speaking on my part) believe, or in telling them that other beliefs are equally valid to our own, we have already failed to be faithful to our beliefs in only one God who has revealed Himself most fully in only one Truth. You, being Pagan, believe that many different belief systems are equally valid, and so you are not neglecting or betraying your beliefs if you let your child follow another religion without so much as even discouraging it…Catholics would be; it’s that simple, and actually plain if one understands Catholicism.

and im just wondering if only catholics are alowed to be godparents, cause im one for my friend’s daughter who is also named cody but if something happens and im 18 i promised i would help take care of her…so would i be a godparent or just a helping hand

I don’t know if only Catholics are allowed to be godparents…but I believe that in Catholicism, godparents are supposed to help bring the child up and solidify the child’s Catholic faith. Therefore it will be harder for you, as a Pagan, to commit to that role than for a Catholic godparent since you would be taking every opportunity to bring a child to fuller commitment (and guide the child away from shirking that commitment) to a Faith you do not believe. It is possible for you, though, since your faith doesn’t forbid you to raise a child Catholic; so it’s more possible for you than if you were a Muslim godparent to a Catholic child, in which case your religion would forbid you to fulfill your obligation (therefore I’d think this would be a bad idea).

As I said, the Church may teach that only Catholics should be a godparent to a Catholic child (I’m still learning, you see; you might find out for sure in the Ask An Apologist forum), but if not, I’m pretty sure that the godparent would still have an obligation to further along the child’s Catholic faith–after all, the parents, assuming they are faithful Catholics, are trusting the godparents to do what’s best for the child from a Catholic standpoint. If the Church allows it and you think you can/want to do it, even at the expense of contradicting things you personally believe, then I suppose that will work; I don’t recommend putting yourself in that position, but it could work if you’re willing to do it and your religion doesn’t forbid it, depending on what the Church teaching is regarding the matter.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Once again i have another question for everyone in here

What if…your child came up to you, or you found out…that they were wanting to start practicing a form of Paganism

Would you scold them,try and talk them out of it,let it go thinking its just a phase…or if you have another way of maybe dealing with it, if so lemme know

your wiccan friend,

reborn

p.s. i apolgize for the smileys im in a very happy mood

Seeing that my practicing Paganism and Wicca lead me to Christ, I would help them along the path I trod.

 

[kittychorus]

would you die for your belief?

I’ve heard a saying. “Death is light as a feather and duty heavy as a mountain.” I have always thought that saying you would die for something is all well and good, but wouldn’t it be more difficult, more fruitful and better show the strength of your conviction to live for it?

 

[cheese_sdc]

im sorry i just think that its wrong to raise a child in only one track

I’ve had this discussion before with other pagans. Basically, my understanding is this:

As we raise children, we teach them about how the world works. We teach them that fire is hot, that green is green, and that 2+2=4.

We also teach them that there is Divine in the world and we teach them our understanding of the Divine. I hold what I believe about the Divine to be Truth. If I understand that my idea of the Divine is True, then why would I not pass that on to my children? If it is good enough for me to believe as Truth, then I want my children to understand it too. If what I believe as Truth is NOT good enough to pass onto my children, then I would want to a good, long, hard look at what I profess.

 

[Rebecca_New]

I would pick up my weapon-The Rosary, say it, pray it, and show it.

 

[cheese_sdc]

I would pick up my weapon-The Rosary, say it, pray it, and show it.

The use of Christian symbols as a weapon maybe one aspect of Catholicism that the son/daughter may be objecting to.

 

[KarenNC]

When one decides to become a parent, and is fortunate enough to bear a child, one raises it with love and guidance…Study up on socialisation reborn_pagan, you will find that the path you would take as a parent would lead the child to be highly unsocialised.

Am I correct in understanding that you truly believe that any child raised outside of a monotheistic religion (and I note that Islam wasn’t part of your list–is that intentional?) is by definition “unsocialized,” much less highly so? And, conversely, that every child who is raised in such a religion, however nominally, is automatically “socialized?” My experience with kids on both sides of the issue does not bear that out .

At 15, you are too young to understand this fully. We all are, which is why there are laws in place for ages of consent.

Iam 44, and a parent. I think I would be counted as sufficiently past the age of consent to have an understanding of these concepts. Perhaps it is a matter of a differing standard or meaning of the term “socialization”—what is your definition of “highly unsocialized?” Once I understand that, I can better respond to the issue.

Do you truly believe that a parent who is not Jewish or Christian does not do everything within his or her power to raise a child in love and guidance?

Exactly what do you think we do with our children?

 

[JonathanKinsman]

bieng a wiccan isnt all its cracked up you think it is…i do have rules telling me how to act, its the wiccan rede and code of chivelry… and i have to hide my beliefs from my parents cause i’ll probly either get kicked out the house or cut off from the world

Mr Pagan,

1. Could you explain what you mean by “the wiccan rede?”
2. Also, is the “code of chivelry” the same thing as “the code of chivalry?” If it is, I do believe that is a Catholic (Christian) based code of behavior for armed knights (originating in what is present day Germany, I think)

Thanks

 

[JonathanKinsman]

quote=reborn_pagan;1848817]im sorry i just think that its wrong to raise a child in only one track, and im just wondering if only catholics are alowed to be godparents, cause im one for my friend’s daughter who is also named cody but if something happens and im 18 i promised i would help take care of her…so would i be a godparent or just a helping hand ?

Mr Pagan,

1. What do you mean by “it’s wrong to raise a child in only one track?” Who determines what’s ‘wrong?’
2. ‘Track’ out here in California refers to the school years set up in crowded districts. Do you mean ‘one religion?’ If one religion, how about different genders and different types of cuisine and languages and, gee, musical instruments? Is polygamy a wiccan practice, then? It seems that to deny a man more than one choice in women for wives would be “wrong” too. Hhhmmmm…

 

[KarenNC]

As we raise children, we teach them about how the world works. We teach them that fire is hot, that green is green, and that 2+2=4.

We also teach them that there is Divine in the world and we teach them our understanding of the Divine. I hold what I believe about the Divine to be Truth. If I understand that my idea of the Divine is True, then why would I not pass that on to my children? If it is good enough for me to believe as Truth, then I want my children to understand it too. If what I believe as Truth is NOT good enough to pass onto my children, then I would want to a good, long, hard look at what I profess.

Excellent post and one I was preparing to say myself. Personally, I believe it is a bad idea to raise a child in multiple or no religions with the idea that they can choose when they get older.

Young children are literal, concrete thinkers (see Piaget chd.gmu.edu/immersion/knowledgebase/theorists/constructivism/Piaget.htm)). They simply do not have the cognitive maturity to fruitfully and with understanding compare different religions and weigh their relative merits. They are not capable of the kind of abstract reasoning necessary until they are much older, and this is not fully developed until the teen years. My (admittedly limited) experience of adults who were raised in this manner is that they often simply did not develop a strong connection to religion at all (though I don’t have research to back that up).

I feel it is much better to give the child a good grounding in your own religion (whatever that might be) so that they have a springboard from which to grow in the future. It is not a guarantee that they will stay with it (my husband and I certainly had about as thorough a grounding and immersion in Christianity as is humanly possible and we did not), but it truly does shape the child’s perception of the role and importance of religious belief in one’s life.

Now this is not to say that I do not expose my child to other religions–with our fringe beliefs that would be impossible unless we never left the house and I meticulously combed everything that came in for religious references . She is 6 and on the cusp of pre-operational to concrete operational. Instead, I do tell her that different people have different religions just like they have different skin colors, hair colors, preferences in food, customs, etc. and that we do not make fun of them or avoid them or tell them they are bad for any of those reasons. We have intentionally sought out a support group that includes folks of various religions, races, ability levels etc as part of our homeschooling. I believe an appreciation of diversity and the value of it is important.

 

[cheese_sdc]

Mr Pagan,

1. Could you explain what you mean by “the wiccan rede?”

The rede:
*Eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill,
*An it harm none do what ye will

 

[cheese_sdc]

Excellent post and one I was preparing to say myself. Personally, I believe it is a bad idea to raise a child in multiple or no religions with the idea that they can choose when they get older.

:thumbsup:

I feel it is much better to give the child a good grounding in your own religion (whatever that might be) so that they have a springboard from which to grow in the future. It is not a guarantee that they will stay with it (my husband and I certainly had about as thorough a grounding and immersion in Christianity as is humanly possible and we did not), but it truly does shape the child’s perception of the role and importance of religious belief in one’s life.

Yep. I agree. A child has to have a foundation on which to build, if the building is not quite what the parents had in mind.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

im sorry i just think that its wrong to raise a child in only one track

So then you also believe that children must be exposed everything, rather than just what the parent’s believe? Thats what I get from this statement.

So you believe that children need to be exposed to risky sexual behavior and illegal drugs?

 

[dranzal]

If it makes you feel better, I do expose my children to other faiths. My brother is Muslim and my sister is protestant. We don’t slam the door on JW’s or Mormons.

I teach them about all these faiths from the perspective of shared history and the Truth of our faith. I teach them that, THANKS BE TO GOD, all other faiths have some element of truth, however small. It is my duty to pass on my faith to them. We do believe there is an absolute TRUTH. To teach them that whatever you “want” or “choose” to believe is okay is an insult to every faith except Moral Relativism.

I teach them that we should pray for our fellow man that God will reveal Himself to them.

 

[reborn_pagan]

I’ve heard a saying. “Death is light as a feather and duty heavy as a mountain.” I have always thought that saying you would die for something is all well and good, but wouldn’t it be more difficult, more fruitful and better show the strength of your conviction to live for it?

theres also a saying by someone who i forgot his name but he said “the mark of an imature man is that he would die for something he bealived in, the mark of a mature man is that he will live peacefully for what he bealived in”

wiccan friend,
cody

 

[JonathanKinsman]

Mr Pagan,

1. Could you explain what you mean by “the wiccan rede?”
2. Also, is the “code of chivelry” the same thing as “the code of chivalry?” If it is, I do believe that is a Catholic (Christian) based code of behavior for armed knights (originating in what is present day Germany, I think)

Thanks

Mr Pagan;

I got the ‘rede’ information. Could you clarify the “code of chivelry” thing?

Thanks

 

[KarenNC]

theres also a saying by someone who i forgot his name but he said “the mark of an imature man is that he would die for something he bealived in, the mark of a mature man is that he will live peacefully for what he bealived in”

J. D. Salinger used this in Catcher in the Rye, attributing it to the psychologist Wilhelm Stekel–"“The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of the mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one.” I haven’t been able to find a specific writing of Stekel’s that is the original source.

I agree that it is sometimes more difficult to live one’s beliefs than die for them. I do not know of any ideaology for which I would willingly die. I can only die once. I can accomplish much more by living.