What Impact Has The SSPX Had On The Church?

[numealinesimpet]

Continuing Bp Fellay’s conference…

So what have been the practical consequences so far? In some countries, the situation of the Traditional Latin Mass is even more difficult than before. His opponents cannot move against the Pope directly, so they are moving against those who are trying to implement his wishes. Several Bishop’s conferences have issued a decree whereby they request the priest to ask permission of the bishop before organising the TLM, even though this is expressly against the statements of the Motu Proprio.

It certainly makes for an interesting change: it is not ourselves who are in the arena! We are the spectators and it is the Pope and the bishops who are in the arena!

The German Bishops Conference have done this. The Polish Bishops conference, following the Germans, have done likewise The French and Italians, however, have been more devious. They have said in public: “Fine! we’ll follow the Motu Proprio!” But then, behind the scenes, on a provincial level they have issued a document of secret instruction on how to deal with the MP and render it ineffective. How do we know this? Because a certain priest saw a copy on his Bishop’s desk! He picked it up and said, “Hello, what’s this?” The bishop angrily snatched it out of his hand, exclaiming, “That’s not for you!” Unfortunately, however, the priest had read the contents before he picked it up…

The Pope is very conscious of his position as Pope. He realises that, if he backs down now, he will lose his authority. Will he have the strength to hold out? He very much needs our prayers.

We have now reached a very critical point in the course of events. The Novus Ordo Bishops, those who lived through Vatican II, are getting old. For them Vatican II was their baby. They cannot entertain the idea that it was all a huge mistake. The younger bishops are more unformed in the Faith, but they do not have this attachment to Vatican II.

Therefore the duration and the details of this crisis are not our concern. Our concern is that the Church get back on its tracks.

The Vatican insists that it is we who are the problem.

I said recently to Cdl Castrillon Hoyos: "Please forget about the SSPX and deal with your own problems! When you have done that, you will discover that the SSPX is no longer a problem!

We are a thermometer of the state of the Church. A doctor ought not to get upset at his own thermometer! Cure the sickness and the thermometer will go down by itself!

We Catholics have a right to request Bishops – and the Pope – to act like Catholic Bishops, like a Catholic Pope.

Because we stick to the Faith, now it has come about that we are the reference!

They may say, "What, four bishops and 500 priests against 5,000 bishops and 400,000 priests? But the Catholic mind doesn’t care about numbers – but the truth.

We are the Disturbing Element that keeps down the unchecked spread of Error. Our position is starting to influence other priests, bishops, Cardinals.

Since the issuing of the Motu Proprio, the SSPX have been asked for information. We did not force it; we said, “If anyone is interested, write and ask us for a CD”. So far we have, on request, distributed 5,000 DVDs: 3,000 French, 2,000 German. The USA are not keeping records, but at least 700 have been sent out. Allowing for collaboration between priests, at least 10,000 have got in touch with the Old Mass.

At the level of doctrine it is the same. We must start at the beginning! We can’t start building a house with the roof!

And this is not theory. I am telling you what we are seeing. There is a might in the Old Mass. It nurtures the Faith. Priests go back to the Traditional Latin Mass then begin to re-think their lives.

Priests have said, “By saying the Traditional Latin Mass I have understood the nature of the Priesthood.”

All this requires, on our part, enormous energy, and we may say compassion, mercy, and firmness.

Retrieved from “http://www.tradwiki.com/wiki/Notes_taken_during_a_Conference_given_by _Bp._Fellay_on_the_Motu_Proprio_Summorum _Pontificum”

 

[michaeldaniels]

Really…find me one example…just one example of a liturgical abuse taking place during an SSPX Mass. I assume you will ignore this response and act like you didn’t read it…and to answer another statement of yours, I know it isn’t The Church…but this type of stuff is becoming more and more prevalent and needs to be stopped.

For as many wierdos as you can find in the post Vatican II church, we can find just as many abuses in the SSPX group.
.

 

[numealinesimpet]

So, by this story you are saying the SSPX has almost no imact on the Church.

The sequel to these events illustrates perfectly why the Modernists are so afraid of the SSPX. Because they succeeded in silencing Archbp Pell for several years. Not by debate; not by reporting him to the Vatican and getting him suspended for heresy; but by encouraging a 12-year-old boy to lay charges that Archbp. Pell had molested him. At the trial, the allegations were thrown out, and Archbp Pell was fully exonerated; but the process took 3 years and he had to step down, with no say in who would succeed him. I don’t know what the interim Local Ordinary did in the meantime, but elsewhere in the world, a traditional bishop has been replaced by a particularly radical successor, who has worked might and main to dismantle the work of his predecessor. That is the strategy that was known since before the time of Christ: “Divide and Conquer.” This tactic was used, as a routine, against any who tried to oppose the steamrollering of the Changes on the Church in the 70s. I can provide many true anecdotes on this. But the SSPX have an organisation. If one of their ranks has to drop out, through sickess or any other reason, another can take his place the following week – as happened in Cork ten years ago, when Fr Van Es died suddenly in the presbytery on Christmas Eve. R.I.P. There was no Midnight Mass, but the next Sunday, business proceeded as usual. This indeed, is the strength of the Catholic Church itself – when she is holding discipline. Meanwhile the likes of Cdl Pell are well aware of, and grateful for, the strength of the SSPX.

 

[numealinesimpet]

“That video” is not the Catholic Church. It’s an abuse of the Catholic Church. Why must the concentration ALWAYS be on the abuses rather than the beauty and goodness of the church?

Because these abuses are not being corrected by those charged under God to do so. That is the essence of the crisis. That is why I say the SSPX were justified in invoking the Emergency Clauses. In fact, by default, they are a main bulwark against the unchecked spread of error, as Bp Fellay has remarked.

There are abuses in every “organization,” “church,” “sect.” Focus on the good and what is true, rather than on the abuse. For as many wierdos as you can find in the post Vatican II church, we can find just as many abuses in the SSPX group.

Oh, really, mariediana! Would you like to back up that statement? My grownup children & I have by now attended SSPX ceremonies in over twelve countries and four continents, and never once have they seen anything but the True Tridentine Mass or other ceremonies. If you cannot back up that statement, I wish to state my opinion that it is the most baseless and fatuous remark I have heard in this whole debate.

Concentrate on the Eucharist. The other things are insignificant. God will deal with errant priests. It’s not for us to do so.

Luckily for the Catholic Church, that is not how S. Athanasius dealt with the Arian Crisis, even when it was “Athanasius contra Mundum” – Athanasius against the World.
Someone was distributing leaflets against a very serious attack on the Divine law & the Church, on a street corner in an Irish city a couple of years ago. A passer-by (who identified herself as an employee of the Diocesan Office) said to him, “Just leave it in God’s hands”. He extended his hands and protested, “But these are God’s hands!” He was not claiming to be a Saint: he was affirming who had ownership of two objects that were under his stewardship. He was also re-affirming the Doctrine of the Mystical Body of Christ.
No, we laypeople cannot become bishops and remove or discipline errant priests. But we can support faithful priests and ignore the others for the duration of the crisis. The main reason I moved where I live now is that there was an SSPX Mass Centre there, and I knew it would not simply disappear halfway through my children’s upbringing.

 

[pnewton]

I think the point being made is that the legitimacy of the SSPX hinges on whether the Church is in a state of Crisis./quote]Because of the extremism on the parts of some, none of which is official Church teaching? Then pardon me if I deem it hypocricy to complain about those who use the same illogic against the SSPX, judging them by those that are pharisees, those who slip into sedevacanism or those who are more filled with hatred of change than the love of God.

Extreme cases, especially those that do not reflect the doctrine of a group make poor argument, but foster stereotyping.

You guys keep on posting the same old tired links if you want. I will keep pointing out the fallacy I see, at least from time to time.

 

[numealinesimpet]

numealinesimpet;6481630:

I think the point being made is that the legitimacy of the SSPX hinges on whether the Church is in a state of Crisis.

Because of the extremism on the parts of some, none of which is official Church teaching?

Then why is it allowed to go unchecked? These were not exactly private individuals: they are the leading figures of the education of the children of a major city. In the 1950s, a visiting priest came to a convent to preach a retreat. He pointed at the tabernacle and said, “Christ is not there, dear sisters! Only by your faith!” The Mother Superior stood up and said quietly, “Sisters, stand up”. They stood up. “Leave the chapel and return to your cells”. They did so. The Mother Superior phoned the bishop. The bishop asked to speak to the priest. He told the priest “You have 24 hours to leave my diocese. Never come back again.” The priest did so – because he knew the word of the bishop would be backed up with further action if he disobeyed.
I repeat this episode because it is one I happen to have heard about. But all those who can still remember the 1950s will know that it would have been the normal and expected procedure.
This is what we have lost. That is why we say there is a state of crisis in the church.

Then pardon me if I deem it hypocrisy to complain about those who use the same illogic against the SSPX, judging them by those that are pharisees, those who slip into sedevacanism or those who are more filled with hatred of change than the love of God.

Forgive me, but your point here is not clear to me. i don’t mind if you explain in more detail.

Extreme cases, especially those that do not reflect the doctrine of a group, make poor argument, but foster stereotyping.

The point is, if this goes on unchecked, what hope is there for the others?
As I have remarked before, the problem is more with a lack of discipline than with false doctrine being taught from an official level.

You guys keep on posting the same old tired links if you want. I will keep pointing out the fallacy I see, at least from time to time.

When I repeat a posting it is for the sake of newcomers to the forum, or because the point I made has not been answered, yet the same fallacies are repeated on the other side of the debate. For example, we have heard a lot about the duty of Obedience. I have quoted the official position on Obedience from the foremost theologian in the history of the Church, and have pointed out that the SSPX are acting in line with these Catholic principles. I don’t remember being refuted. So If people continue to speak of Obedience in an erroneous way, I will assume they have not read the previous thread, and as a service to them, will provide it again. the same with abuses. It is not the abuse as such, but the fact that it is not only uncorrected but ignored or even encouraged by the hierarchy, that shows how much the Church needs the example of the patient firmness of the SSPX.

 

[stevusmagnus]

“That video” is not the Catholic Church. It’s an abuse of the Catholic Church. Why must the concentration ALWAYS be on the abuses rather than the beauty and goodness of the church?

That video IS the modern Catholic Church.

The “abuse” argument is untrue. These are not abuses, they are modern accepted practices of the Post-Conciliar Church. Only in some Catholics’ “private judgment” are these abuses. This Mass was concelebrated by how many Cardinals, Bishops, Priests and Deacons of the Novus Ordo and even Eastern Rite? Look at the video.

This “Mass” had the tacit approval of all of them and of the Vatican. If you believe differently please show me a Vatican statement condemning this particular Mass or any practice or part of this religious education Mass as an “abuse”. Do you claim to know better than the Pope? Do you condemn this as abuse when he has not? Sounds Luther-esque to me.

There are abuses in every “organization,” “church,” “sect.” Focus on the good and what is true, rather than on the abuse. For as many wierdos as you can find in the post Vatican II church, we can find just as many abuses in the SSPX group.

There are no “abuses” in the Society Masses unless you consider the immemorial Roman Rite to be an abuse in and of itself (which many do). If a Society priest would DARE tamper with the Holy Mass in any way to make it near what you find in most suburban NO parishes, that priest would be disciplined faster than you can say “Bugnini”. The Society does focus on what is good and true. The Catholic Faith and the true Mass.

The problem is that what you privately judge to be “abuses” in the NO are approved by Princes of the Church and allowed by Rome. Thus “abuse” becomes nothing more than code for the fact you personally don’t like it.

Concentrate on the Eucharist. The other things are insignificant. God will deal with errant priests. It’s not for us to do so.

The Holy Mass is not insignificant. Reverence towards God is not insignificant. Sacrilege is not insignificant. Error is not insignificant. It is for love of Christ and the Eucharist that Society faithful refuse to attend these abominations and call out publicly the wicked and scandalous actions of modern clerics as St. Paul called out St. Peter’s scandalous behavior in the scriptures.

I pray that more and more “modern” Catholics wake up and break free from the Novus Ordo Matrix and stop defending and excusing the indefensible. It is like Stockholm Syndrome, “a term used to describe a paradoxical psychological phenomenon wherein hostages express adulation and have positive feelings towards their captors that appear irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims.”

 

[stevusmagnus]

Extreme cases, especially those that do not reflect the doctrine of a group make poor argument, but foster stereotyping.

These are not “extreme” cases. I’ve seen the exact same thing at various Novus Ordo parishes minus only the middle-aged ballerinas with incense.

The truth is that the common everyday suburban vernacular Novus Ordo Mass approved by your local Bishop, Rome, etc. is frequently a sacrilege. To deny this is to deny reality or to have had one’s Catholic sense so diluted over the years that one has become accustomed to sacrilege. Good Catholics are more and more coming to realize this charade and abandoning the nonsense for true Catholicism.

 

[Lormar]

I would like to know too what abuses Maria witnessed in the SSPX Masses. And what was she doing there? I thought she avoided anyone who is disobedient and proud.

The SSPX would not have flourished had the Church been doing Her job. But, no. Forty plus years of nonsense gone unchecked and unpunished and undisciplined. There’s only so much people can take. And quite frankly, the churchmen are glad to be rid of those “reactionaries.” Makes their job easier.

 

[stevusmagnus]

No Archbishop Lefebvre = no indult, no FSSP or ICK, no SP, no Latin Mass, no Traditional priesthood. The Traditional flock would have been forced to gather around hold-out Traditional priests who would all be dying off right now with no way to perpetuate themselves to the satisfaction of the modern Bishops.

Catholics today do not understand the unmitigated hatred the modern liberal Bishops and Cardinals had towards anything Traditional, especially in the late 60’s and 70’s. The French bishops were instrumental in forcing the Vatican (with the influence of one of their own, Cardinal Gagnon in the Vatican) to suppress a fully Catholic and thriving seminary when their own seminaries were DYING. It was out of jealousy they attacked the Archbishop’s seminary. To anyone who is objective and interested in a history of the early days of the Society read Michael Davies’ “Apologia Pro Marcel Lefebvre Volume 1”. It is chocked full of the actual letters back and forth between the Archbishop and the Vatican and includes press articles and speeches from the time in their original form. Don’t believe the hype. Read the original source material for yourselves. Here is a link to the book: angeluspress.org/oscatalog/item/3050/set-3-apologia-pro-marcel-lefebvre

Also consider the prophecy of Our Lady of Good Success. An apparition FULLY APPROVED by the Church.

Notice Our Lady uses the word “prelate” at the end of the quotation. Not “Pope”, even though Our Lady uses the word “Pope” elsewhere in her message…

olrl.org/prophecy/goodsuccess.shtml

“The Sacred Sacrament of Holy Orders will be ridiculed, oppressed and despised. …The demon will try to persecute the Ministers of the Lord in every possible way and he will labor with cruel and subtle astuteness to deviate them from the spirit of their vocation, corrupting many of them. These corrupted priests, who will scandalize the Christian people, will incite the hatred of the bad Christians and the enemies of the Roman, Catholic and Apostolic Church to fall upon all priests. This apparent triumph of Satan will bring enormous sufferings to the good Pastors of the Church…”

“Moreover, in these unhappy times, there will be unbridled luxury which, acting thus to snare the rest into sin, will conquer innumerable frivolous souls who will be lost. Innocence will almost no longer be found in children, nor modesty in women. In this supreme moment of need of the Church, those who should speak will fall silent.”

“But know, beloved daughter, that when your name is made known in the 20th century, there will be many who will not believe, claiming that this devotion is not pleasing to God…A simple humble faith in the truth of My apparitions to you, My predilect child, will be reserved for humble and fervent souls docile to the inspirations of grace, for Our Heavenly Father communicates His secrets to the simple of heart, and not to those whose hearts are inflated with pride, pretending to know what they do not, or self-satisfied with empty knowledge.”

During this time, Our Lady foretold, “the secular Clergy will leave much to be desired because priests will become careless in their sacred duties. Lacking the divine compass, they will stray from the road traced by God for the priestly ministry, and they will become attached to wealth and riches, which they will unduly strive to obtain. How the Church will suffer during this dark night! Lacking a Prelate and Father to guide them with paternal love, gentleness, strength, wisdom and prudence, many priests will lose their spirit, placing their souls in great danger. This will mark the arrival of My hour.”

“Therefore, clamor insistently without tiring and weep with bitter tears in the privacy of your heart, imploring our Celestial Father that, for love of the Eucharistic Heart of my Most Holy Son and His Precious Blood shed with such generosity and the profound bitterness and sufferings of His cruel Passion and Death, He might take pity on His ministers and bring to an end those Ominous times, sending to this Church the Prelate who will restore the spirit of its priests.”

 

[SpiritusSanctus]

No Archbishop Lefebvre = no indult, no FSSP or ICK, no SP, no Latin Mass, no Traditional priesthood. The Traditional flock would have been forced to gather around hold-out Traditional priests who would all be dying off right now with no way to perpetuate themselves to the satisfaction of the modern Bishops.

Catholics today do not understand the unmitigated hatred the modern liberal Bishops and Cardinals had towards anything Traditional, especially in the late 60’s and 70’s. The French bishops were instrumental in forcing the Vatican (with the influence of one of their own, Cardinal Gagnon in the Vatican) to suppress a fully Catholic and thriving seminary when their own seminaries were DYING. It was out of jealousy they attacked the Archbishop’s seminary. To anyone who is objective and interested in a history of the early days of the Society read Michael Davies’ “Apologia Pro Marcel Lefebvre Volume 1”. It is chocked full of the actual letters back and forth between the Archbishop and the Vatican and includes press articles and speeches from the time in their original form. Don’t believe the hype. Read the original source material for yourselves. Here is a link to the book: angeluspress.org/oscatalog/item/3050/set-3-apologia-pro-marcel-lefebvre

Also consider the prophecy of Our Lady of Good Success. An apparition FULLY APPROVED by the Church.

Notice Our Lady uses the word “prelate” at the end of the quotation. Not “Pope”, even though Our Lady uses the word “Pope” elsewhere in her message…

olrl.org/prophecy/goodsuccess.shtml

Yes, this is all indeed true. Very nice post, stevus.

The modern bishops then were entirely against all that was traditional, which is exactly why the modernists hoped SSPX would die out, because then the Traditional Latin Mass would be extinct. Archbishop LeFebvre will one day be found a saint.

 

[RoryMcKenzie56]

I went to see Bp. Fellay give a conference. He spoke for the fastest three hours I have ever sat listening to one man speak. I could hear his lovely accented English in the few lines given by Numealinesimpet. Gentle firmness. He is a rock with a friendly, utterly disarming smile. That’s no argument. But considering he is supposed to be like Luther, it is very unexpected.

I gave Bp. Williamson a ride to the airport once. I had all these questions I was going to ask. The whole way though, he kept me busy answering questions about Mt. St. Helens (the volcano very near where I live which blew off most of its top in 1980) to which he would respond with a genuinely curious, almost child-like interest, to go visit it. One of the regrets in my life is in forgetting to kiss his ring and ask for his blessing as I dropped him at the curb.

So I am biased. I love even beleaguered Bp. Williamson. The priests I have met are among the warmest, funniest, intelligent, well-read, and well-balanced men it has been my pleasure to know. On this forum, it has occasionally grieved and frustrated me to hear some of the seemingly dry, cold, and rigorously legalistic arguments for why we are separated from God’s grace because of these technicalities about jurisdiction. In the end, we all want to save our souls. I am convinced that I am doing the best thing for me and my family.

My youngest boy, just turned 18, hopes to be able to enter the seminary next year. Would he be considering a possible vocation if I had decided that he needed to remain an altar boy at a Nouvs Ordo parish where one of the priests admonished him for genuflecting before the Tabernacle? This priest didn’t bow. He did a head bob. And that was the limit of reverence he wanted his altar servers to show to Christ the King in the Blessed Sacrament. My boy was 13 then.

How many parents have children who never discovered a vocation, not because they weren’t drawn to Traditional spirituality, but because they were rigorously obedient to legal technicalities that are antithetical to the salvation of souls? How many more parents have children who aren’t even in the faith now after being forced to “bob their heads” at the Sacrament until they could bolt for skepticism after they were teens?

I am grateful for this thread and for the long and patient work of Numealinesimpet in particular. Thank you to you and all of those who have vigorously opposed “technical legalism”. I have no malice toward those who think our difficult times can be solved by simple, absolute obedience to wolves in the guise of shepherds. I do not mean the Holy Father as a wolf. No, he is the one who asked us to pray that he would be saved from these canine bishops who have no intention of obedience to him; who probably don’t even believe in the doctrines of the papacy in Vatican I, never minding Vatican II.

May the good God have mercy on all of us who seek to unite ourselves to God’s will, that His, not our wills would be done. May well-meaning Catholics who love Pope Benedict everywhere join hands in opposition to the smoke of Satan and the smouldering, sulphuric darkness which has invaded the sanctuaries of our Holy Mother Church.

I pray for a renewed vigor of faith, hope, and charity with prudence and obedience in the Mystical Body of Christ this Easter Season. Though the Immaculate Heart of our Blessed Mother,

Rory

 

[stevusmagnus]

Beautiful post, Rory!

You hit the nail on the head in a moving way.

 

[pnewton]

The point is, if this goes on unchecked, what hope is there for the others?

Now that is a good question. Why have the Bishops who have consistently shown a disregard for the Church not been re-assigned to a titular post in Siberia and removed from where they cause harm? That is something I do not know. I will note that most of the last appointments I know of have been excellent.

 

[pnewton]

These are not “extreme” cases.

That is an odd statement coming from someone who supports the SSPX. When these pictures and clips re-circulate here, they find absolutely no support and most have not seen them.

The truth is that the common everyday suburban vernacular Novus Ordo Mass approved by your local Bishop, Rome, etc. is frequently a sacrilege. To deny this is to deny reality or to have had one’s Catholic sense so diluted over the years that one has become accustomed to sacrilege.

I will deny that, as will most Catholics, but I am glad you posted it. It is revealing. I have no diluted sense of Catholicism and such statements will not be taken to heart be me, as I consider the one making it, in light of your comment.

I have initially said, the SSPX has not had the impact on the Catholic Church that some of you have claimed. After reading the defenses here made by SSPX, I am even more convinved. There is a certain ignorance about what is happening in the Catholic Churches when one is not in there day in and day out, just as I would never make claims about Churches I do not attend. YouTube and The Wanderer will only get you so far.

 

[stevusmagnus]

I get my knowledge of NO Masses through decades of personal experience as well as those of others. The problem is well known by any Catholics with eyes to see. They do not seem to know the origins of your typical ICEL Mass which is not even in conformity with VCII, much less Tradition. They simply attend whatever their local priest serves up without investigating.

I don’t read the Wanderer.

The impact of the Society will be fully recognized in the future, just as the full impact of St. Athanasius was not fully recognized until after the Arian crisis. During the crisis Athanasius and his followers were ignored as well when they were not being persecuted by those fully approved Bishops with faculties saying “fully approved” yet heretical Masses.

That is an odd statement coming from someone who supports the SSPX. When these pictures and clips re-circulate here, they find absolutely no support and most have not seen them.

I will deny that, as will most Catholics, but I am glad you posted it. It is revealing. I have no diluted sense of Catholicism and such statements will not be taken to heart be me, as I consider the one making it, in light of your comment.

I have initially said, the SSPX has not had the impact on the Catholic Church that some of you have claimed. After reading the defenses here made by SSPX, I am even more convinved. There is a certain ignorance about what is happening in the Catholic Churches when one is not in there day in and day out, just as I would never make claims about Churches I do not attend. YouTube and The Wanderer will only get you so far.

 

[numealinesimpet]

Now that is a good question. Why have the Bishops who have consistently shown a disregard for the Church not been re-assigned to a titular post in Siberia and removed from where they cause harm? That is something I do not know. I will note that most of the last appointments I know of have been excellent.

I agree. And I am afraid for His Holiness, because he is now trying to reform the Church without using the weapon that Our Lady gave at Fatima: the Acts of Penance of all Catholics leading to Collegial Consecration of Russia. This is relevant to this thread because Bp Fellay asked last year for a Rosary Bouquet of 12 million Rosaries to be presented to the Pope, with the intention that he mandate the Collegial Consecration. St Lucia explained it all: Russia is singled out because it was from Russia that the Satanic system of Marxism was launched upon the world. The Pope must command all bishops to make a public act of Consecration, all on the same day, in their dioceses. There are at least two reasons for this. We Catholics will be putting ourselves on the line in a big way, exposing ourselves to worldwide ridicule if ‘nothing happens’. By this humiliation before the event, we will make reparation for our neglect during the 18th and 19th centuries, which allowed Marxism to gain credibility. The pope himself will make reparation for the whole Church by exposing himself in this way. And we laypeople must pray very fervently, with reparation and sacrifices, to support him through this. Then, when Russia does convert to the Roman Catholic Church (which Sr Lucia insisted was what Our Lady meant), the whole world will know what had preceded it.

To discuss this further would belong on another thread. But the SSPX has always been intimately united with the Fatima movement. A few years ago, in an action that shocked even this tough-skinned old greyhead, the custodians of the Shrine at Fatima… but let the Amy Welbourne Website speak for itself…

continued …

 

[numealinesimpet]

Amy Welbourne’s website:
Patrick Rothwell ( 21 Feb 2006) writes:

Last year, the SSPX officiously organized a pilgrimage to the Fatima Shrine in “reparation” for the rector of the Shrine’s and the Bishop’s permission to allow activities related to inter-religious dialogue that the SSPX found offensive. The Shrine rightly kicked them out - and fortunately, the SSPX did not physically resist. Next time the traddies might resist and things could get ugly fast. There are all sorts of other potentially violent scenarios involving rad trads that are readily contemplated.
Posted by: at Feb 21, 2006 6:19:12 PM

nume: – two of my (grown-up) children were at this event. To recall the reason: Hindu priests took part in their pagan rituals: **actual worship of their false gods, with all the trappings of their religion – not just “dialogue” – ** by invitation of the Shrine Authorities, on the Altar of God, in the very place where Our Lady appeared at Fatima and said “Do not offend my Son any more. He is already too greatly offended.” By the Church’s own laws (not tenth Century but twenty-first century laws) this act of desecration calls for the exorcism and re-dedication of the Church. The Shrine officials at first denied that this Hindu ritual ever took place; then when photos were posted on the web they admitted it, but still did not apologise. A very large assembly of devout, well-behaved Catholics from all over the world assembled for the Act of Reparation, led by the SSPX bishops.
(Remember the poster: “What did you do in the Great War, Daddy?)”
Check http://www.cfnews.org/disrupt.htm for a fuller report.

The following is first-hand account.
Dear friends,

Xxxx & Xxxx are back from the Pilgrimage of Reparation in Fatima. Many tales to tell. The Trads were not allowed to offer Holy Mass in the Basilica or Chapel, of course - Hindu rites yes, trads no - but on Monday 22 August - Feast of the Immaculate Heart of Mary - a large Rosary Procession entered the Main Basilica for a Solemn Act of Consecration of Russia by the 4 SSPX Bishops, and other prayers of reparation. They had formally asked for, and received, permission to do this, many weeks beforehand, but the Shrine Authorities apparently forgot all about this. There was some manhandling of the trad. clergy by the “Guardians of the Shrine” who also put on extremely loud modern religious music the whole time they were there, turning it off after they had gone. It was during this outrage that Bp. Fellay had carried out the Act of Reparation, followed by an Act of Consecration of Russia. The four SSPX bishops knelt and led the prayers. It was my own daughter who had dashed over, vaulted the rope and pleaded with them to turn the “music” down. She was refused, of course (The official said to her, ‘I understand, but they are traditionalists!’), & she was hustled out. A Trad from Northern Ireland commented outside, “Well ye’d’ve thought Our Lady would have performed a wee miracle during the Consecration”.
An hour or two later the news filtered through that there had just been a Scale 4 earthquake in Rome.
Not Italy, just Rome & the small area around.
<< “For the region, it was pretty big and terrified a lot of people,” said institute president Enzo Boschi. Residents and workers throughout Rome fled their homes and offices as buildings in the Italian capital shook for around five seconds shortly after 2 p.m. (1200 GMT), but no injuries or damage were initially reported. Holidaymakers in Anzio and Nettuno and along the coast were seized by panic during the quake, which cracked the facades of buildings and sent chunks of plaster crashing to the street. About 70 people went to the hospital emergency room, some with scratches and scrapes, but most of them overcome by anxiety attacks, hospital officials told ANSA news agency. >>

The Consecration was at 1pm Portugal Time, = 2.00pm Rome time, when the earthquake struck:*** it was at the exact same moment. *** I only hope the Pope was paying attention. He most certainly knew of the Act of Reparation.

Check
alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L22304931.htm
for a report on the earthquake.

God is not mocked!

 

[pnewton]

… just as the full impact of St. Athanasius was not fully recognized until after the Arian crisis. During the crisis Athanasius and his followers were ignored as well when they were not being persecuted by those fully approved Bishops with faculties saying “fully approved” yet heretical Masses.

I am very familiar with both the parallels and the failure of the parallel. I once even started a whole thread on this topic, also drawing a parallel to Godwin’s Law, in a Catholic version.

 

[numealinesimpet]

I am very familiar with both the parallels and the failure of the parallel. I once even started a whole thread on this topic, also drawing a parallel to Godwin’s Law, in a Catholic version.

Can you give us the link?