What is a baptist church like?

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True, but churches during New Testament times were only in people’s homes (and catacombs) because the religion had to go underground because it was persecuted. Many of these private sanctuaries, by the way, had very fine things, because we have historical records of what they contained. Once you see the Edict of Toleration announced, you see a whole host of elaborate churches built almost immediately.
Another thing that really blew my mind was discovering the actual catacombs. If you looked at it through my Protestant anti-Catholic eyes in 2006 it was very humbling, especially when you see all of the “icon”, art, drawings on the walks. Seeing is believing and I like Thomas needed to see to believe.
 
…says the man who brags about refuting an argument no one even made.
No saying,simply an acknowledgment. Hus is the one making the assertion,so do not turn it around and pin on me. I simply referred him to link someone gave him to look at it.
 
No saying,simply an acknowledgment. Hus is the one making the assertion,so do not turn it around and pin on me. I simply referred him to link someone gave him to look at it.
No, you were referring to me. You quoted me and were responding to me when you said that my “argument” was illogical, even though I made no argument. I was just pointing out that it’s illogical on your part to claim that an argument that no one has made is illogical.
 
*Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicea325
**Name one of the 12 who was ALWAYS infallible? Did not Peter deny Jesus 3 times,yet he wrote two epistles? Are his epistles fallible since the church is made up fallible men? **

No. He was very fallible, as he demonstrated. However, his canonical writings are inerrant.

Thanks for proving my point. If he wrote an inerrant epistle it must have meant what? Peter was guided by the Holy Spirit,so apparently Jesus was correct the Holy Spirit would guide them (Church) into all truths. Jesus never said they would be infallible in ALL matters or aspects of their individual lives.

Could you please name any of “the twelve” who were ever infallible?

Easy,the ones who wrote epistles and all 12 since Jesus promised them the Holy Spirit. And when? When it implies to matters of faith and morals.

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In addition, Jesus left a church of sinners,not perfectionists and that in no shape or form negates Jesus promise that he gave the 12 the Holy Spirit and it is applicable when the Church defines and makes ALL doctrines official.

**The problem is that all born again believers have the Holy Spirit and yet, we can all still be wrong. **

Oh I see! So the doctrine of the Trinity and Incarnation are wrong,since ALL believers have the Holy Spirit and yet still be wrong? Pretty strong convictions there especially since we are dealing with people’s salvation.

The Apostles didn’t have any more of the Holy Spirit than we do today, nor does the promise of the Holy Spirit imply infallibility in the first place.

Oh really? Can you please provide the names of the laity,outside of the Apostles and bishops, who gave us the doctrines of the Trinity,Incarnation,canon of scripture,etc?

John 16:12-15

"I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. 15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.

It is the gift of God (Jesus) who is the possessor and the giver of all truth.

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Your argument is illogical.
**
Interesting claim, since I haven’t even made my argument yet.**

Interesting rebuttal since you continue with the belief the church is full of fallible men,including the 12 minus their writings,sounds like an argument to me.*
 
No, you were referring to me. You quoted me and were responding to me when you said that my “argument” was illogical, even though I made no argument. I was just pointing out that it’s illogical on your part to claim that an argument that no one has made is illogical.
Yes because you replied to me FIRST:

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Originally Posted by Nicea325
There is no logic behind: an infallible source (Bible) canonized by a fallible church.

And yet, you seem to have no problem with the illogic of an allegedly infallible church made up of fallible men.

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Originally Posted by dnu
Why do Baptist buildings (and the buildings for most Protest sects for that matter) not resemble the Jewish Synagogue/Temple?

**Because we’re not Jewish. **

So yes,I am rebuking you on the claim of an allegedly infallible church made up infallible men.But now you seem to have an issue with the fact I continue to reply to you?
 
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Nicea325:
Oh I see! So the doctrine of the Trinity and Incarnation are wrong,since ALL believers have the Holy Spirit and yet still be wrong? Pretty strong convictions there especially since we are dealing with people’s salvation.
Oh, come on. You’re better than that, aren’t you? You know very well that I never said that the doctrine of the Trinity and the Incarnation are wrong.

Honestly, if this is the kind of games you’re going to play, I don’t think I’m going to continue any further with you.

Good luck in your future endeavors.
 
Oh, come on. You’re better than that, aren’t you? You know very well that I never said that the doctrine of the Trinity and the Incarnation are wrong.

Honestly, if this is the kind of games you’re going to play, I don’t think I’m going to continue any further with you.

Good luck in your future endeavors.
I beg your pardon? Games? When did I say you explicitly stated the doctrines of the Trinity and Incarnation are wrong? No! I am simply implying that since you state the church is full of fallible men. My point is simple: how can fallible men define and make orthodox doctrines official?

Likewise,you stated Peter was very fallible,yes certain aspects of his life,but on the same token you say he wrote to epistles with no errors. Thus,evidently he was NOT fallible when he wrote those two epistles.

That is my entire point.
 
And yet, you seem to have no problem with the illogic of an allegedly infallible church made up of fallible men.

Because we’re not Jewish.
actually my priest is of Jewish decent. and Catholocism is the closest we have to ancient temple Judaism. furthermore, we are grafted in with the Jewish people. you cannot even begin to understand Christianity without Judaism. if i could invite you to read some of the Jewish sages, and read a Jewish prayer book. you may see there are more similarities than you could possibly imagine. also if a Torah Scroll is dropped, a period of fasting follows. a synagouge service is somewhat similar to a Catholic mass. we even have had the pleasure of a Rabbi who attends mass at our parish periodically. Peace 🙂
 
No, I am asking you to explain how you can be certain that your fallible understanding that Rome is infallible is any greater than anyone elses fallible understanding.
Because the Catholic church is the ONLY church guided by the the holy spirit in faith and morals…👍

Matthew
 
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benidict:
actually my priest is of Jewish decent. and Catholocism is the closest we have to ancient temple Judaism. furthermore, we are grafted in with the Jewish people. you cannot even begin to understand Christianity without Judaism. if i could invite you to read some of the Jewish sages, and read a Jewish prayer book. you may see there are more similarities than you could possibly imagine. also if a Torah Scroll is dropped, a period of fasting follows. a synagouge service is somewhat similar to a Catholic mass. we even have had the pleasure of a Rabbi who attends mass at our parish periodically. Peace 🙂
Our religion is different in that we believe that we are currently under a new covenant and that there is no need for the temple, because there are no more sacrifices to be made.

How much of the law do you adhere to?
 
Because the Catholic church is the ONLY church guided by the the holy spirit in faith and morals…👍

Matthew
Then how do you explain the Bible’s teaching that all born again believers are indwelt and guided by the Holy Spirit?
 
Our religion is different in that we believe that we are currently under a new covenant and that there is no need for the temple, because there are no more sacrifices to be made.

How much of the law do you adhere to?
it is a new covenant. the Catholic Church is the embodyment of that new covenant. you have a misunderstanding of my response to you. we are grafted in with the chosen people of God, ie. the Jews, until the fullness of the gentiles come in. then the veil will be lifted from their eyes, as to their messiah. as far as the law. i follow what the apostles stated in acts. the prohibition of the eating of blood. abstaining from sexual immorality. since we no longer have food offered to idols, i somhow dont see that as relevant. basically, they were reinstituting what was given to noah. there is more, but i wont throw everything at you at once 😃 oh yes, im a former baptist myself. peace 🙂
 
Oh, come on. You’re better than that, aren’t you? You know very well that I never said that the doctrine of the Trinity and the Incarnation are wrong.

Honestly, if this is the kind of games you’re going to play, I don’t think I’m going to continue any further with you.

Good luck in your future endeavors.
When it comes to salvation and eternity no one is playing games here!
I suggest you read early church history before you start digging a deeper hole for yourself.
This form is to educate those like yourself who are misinformed on the true teachings of the the church that Christ himself founded! 👍

Matthew
 
When it comes to salvation and eternity no one is playing games here!
I suggest you read early church history before you start digging a deeper hole for yourself.
This form is to educate those like yourself who are misinformed on the true teachings of the the church that Christ himself founded! 👍

Matthew
yes, and i think people like nicea, have more knowledge of these things. than most of us have all together. myself included. i dont think nicea is into playing frivolous games. 😃 just throwing that out there. i say let danny keep digging. im finding it interesting. Peace 🙂
 
i just wanna know, is the baptist church manmade? i probably won’t go to a baptist church im just curious Why don’t you guys pray to mary? & she can help you too … mary has helped me a lot… mary can help you … i’m not worshipping her she’s my intercessor & my favorite saint because she’s the patron of chastity & Purity so why don’t you pray to mary ? she can help you out get closer to jesus i’ve been praying to her & she helped me break my porn addiction & masturbation addiction now i don’t really have an urge to look at porn sometimes i do but i pray & tell myself its wrong 🙂 & because of mary & jesus i’ve been clean
 
shes my favorite saint because she’s the holiest human there is besides jesus
 
i just wanna know, is the baptist church manmade? i probably won’t go to a baptist church im just curious Why don’t you guys pray to mary? & she can help you too … mary has helped me a lot… mary can help you … i’m not worshipping her she’s my intercessor & my favorite saint because she’s the patron of chastity & Purity so why don’t you pray to mary ? she can help you out get closer to jesus i’ve been praying to her & she helped me break my porn addiction & masturbation addiction now i don’t really have an urge to look at porn sometimes i do but i pray & tell myself its wrong 🙂 & because of mary & jesus i’ve been clean
thats because when you look at women through the eyes of your Mother, they become something quite different and unique my friend. Good for you. i will agree in prayer with you. and continue on your upward journey. Mary is my favorite too. followed by st. benidict. peace 🙂
 
yes, and i think people like nicea, have more knowledge of these things. than most of us have all together. myself included. i dont think nicea is into playing frivolous games. 😃 just throwing that out there. i say let danny keep digging. im finding it interesting. Peace 🙂
Thank you benidict. I have no idea what gave Danny the idea I am playng games? I am not! He believes the church is fallible,thus I told him how could a **fallible church **have given us a infallible source (The canon of the Bible)? Where is the logic behind such a belief?
 
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