What is a considered a Traditional Catholic

[maryjk]

I would agree that describes a traditional Catholic as well. However, I still maintain that this love of tradition usually translates to attendance at an EF, if possible.

Maybe usually, but certainly not always.

I have no desire to attend the EF. None at all. And because of that, many here do not see me as a traditional Catholic.

And I know many people, just like me. Very traditional in all ways, BUT have not desire to attend the EF.

 

[thewanderer]

Here’s a link to the thread, I don’t know how to just link to a post.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=679106&page=4

TrueLight, of course I didn’t mean to say that those who prefer the EF aren’t welcome here. I guess I should have phrased it a little more clearly. sorry about that.
The point I was trying to make is that this forum is not supposed to be about traditionalists, but about Church Traditions. So all those who keep making claims that this is the traditionalist forum where the traditionalists will ‘allow’ us non-traditionalists in occasionally as long as we follow the rules that traditionalists set up for us is just completely false and I’m tired of hearing such statements.

 

[TrueLight]

Maybe usually, but certainly not always.

I have no desire to attend the EF. None at all. And because of that, many here do not see me as a traditional Catholic.

And I know many people, just like me. Very traditional in all ways, BUT have not desire to attend the EF.

:console:

If you are as you described, my sister, I think most people would see you as traditional. As long as you’re not putting down traditionalists…

 

[TrueLight]

Here’s a link to the thread, I don’t know how to just link to a post.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=679106&page=4

TrueLight, of course I didn’t mean to say that those who prefer the EF aren’t welcome here. I guess I should have phrased it a little more clearly. sorry about that.
The point I was trying to make is that this forum is not supposed to be about traditionalists, but about Church Traditions. So all those who keep making claims that this is the traditionalist forum where the traditionalists will ‘allow’ us non-traditionalists in occasionally as long as we follow the rules that traditionalists set up for us is just completely false and I’m tired of hearing such statements.

I suppose I can also talk about what I’m tired of, but I’d be repeating myself.

 

[Rich_C]

Maybe usually, but certainly not always.

I have no desire to attend the EF. None at all. And because of that, many here do not see me as a traditional Catholic.

And I know many people, just like me. Very traditional in all ways, BUT have not desire to attend the EF.

I think you’re starting to de-rail this thread. It sounds like your feelings are hurt by the attitudes (or perceived attitudes) of people on this thread, and I’m sorry if I was a part of it.

 

[thewanderer]

The nearest EF is two hours and a time zone away. Want to attend Mass at 8am, you need to leave your house at 4:30. I don’t know anyone that regularly travels to an EF mass.

If you are not attending an EF mass, traditional mean following ALL of the teachings of the Church. Using NFP if you need to avoid pregnancy. Never missing a Holy Day at Mass. Maybe home schooling. Using or at least owning a Baltimore Catechism. Being part of the rosary prayer group or some other prayer/bible study. Having a traditional marriage. That sort of thing.

That is traditional outside of CAF and those that only attend the EF.

I’m not yet married, but I fit in with everything else you’ve written here. Funny thing is despite this I’ve still been told I’m not a traditional Catholic because I prefer the OF.

This is why I think it would be better if traditionalists stopped using the term “traditional” and started just using the word traditionalist. There is too much disagreement as to what it means to be a traditional Catholic.

 

[Rich_C]

The point I was trying to make is that this forum is not supposed to be about traditionalists, but about Church Traditions. So all those who keep making claims that this is the traditionalist forum where the traditionalists will ‘allow’ us non-traditionalists in occasionally as long as we follow the rules that traditionalists set up for us is just completely false and I’m tired of hearing such statements.

I agree here, since the forum has a clearly written self-description. When I want to talk depth about traditional spirituality, I go to the Fish Eaters forum. I see this forum as an opportunity for outreach to those who may be interested in living the Faith traditionally, so of course I’m personally pleased when newcomers visit and ask questions and so on. It’s not a clique.

 

[thewanderer]

I suppose I can also talk about what I’m tired of, but I’d be repeating myself.

Yes, I understand. I was just clearing up misinformation that someone posted on this thread, I wasn’t trying to turn it into a rant.

 

[TrueLight]

I’m not yet married, but I fit in with everything else you’ve written here. Funny thing is despite this I’ve still been told I’m not a traditional Catholic because I prefer the OF.

This is why I think it would be better if traditionalists stopped using the term “traditional” and started just using the word traditionalist. There is too much disagreement as to what it means to be a traditional Catholic.

So people are saying in the real world, Traditional Catholic does not mean traditionalist.

Okay.

So are only the traditionalists blogging? Because if I do a search for “traditional Catholic”, they seem to mean the same thing I mean.

In my small world, there is agreement on what traditional Catholic means (not just the EF mass but adherence to Catholic tradition).

So where is the other definition that is being referred to here?

 

[Rich_C]

There is too much disagreement as to what it means to be a traditional Catholic.

So true. At least on CAF.

What do you think of this blog description?
fisheaters.com/ontraditionalcatholics.html

 

[thewanderer]

So people are saying in the real world, Traditional Catholic does not mean traditionalist.

Okay.

So are only the traditionalists blogging? Because if I do a search for “traditional Catholic”, they seem to mean the same thing I mean.

In my small world, there is agreement on what traditional Catholic means (not just the EF mass but adherence to Catholic tradition).

So where is the other definition that is being referred to here?

Just read the thread I posted earlier abou what a traditional Catholic is. To be honest, I think it tends to be true that traditionalists for the most part use this termthe same way, but many non-traditionalists are either confused or offended by it because they are themselves quite traditional but are for some reason not allowed to call themselves traditional. Which is why I hink it makes more sense to just use traditionalist. Much less confusion and offense would result and it would still allow you to identify yourself with others who think and live the way you do.

 

[maryjk]

I think you’re starting to de-rail this thread. It sounds like your feelings are hurt by the attitudes (or perceived attitudes) of people on this thread, and I’m sorry if I was a part of it.

I thought the thread was about what the term Traditional Catholic means.

As I have said, it means different things to different people.

Just read the thread I posted earlier about what a traditional Catholic is. To be honest, I think it tends to be true that traditionalists for the most part use this term the same way, but many non-traditionalists are either confused or offended by it because they are themselves quite traditional but are for some reason not allowed to call themselves traditional. Which is why I think it makes more sense to just use traditionalist. Much less confusion and offense would result and it would still allow you to identify yourself with others who think and live the way you do.

 

[CesarAugustus]

So can a person like me who is only 33 and has only known the VII, be a Traditional Catholic?

Well, I’m 23.

Traditional Catholicism sometimes goes with family or environment, and sometimes, is fruit of reading about history, theology, philosophy, arts, Liturgy, etc, like in my case.

Blessings!

 

[Diana_Catherine]

Some would say not accepting Vatican ii is heresy? And wouldn’t some traditional Catholics say that is wrong?

I didn’t say I didn’t accept Vatican II. It is just that Vatican II has to be interpreted with the rest of the history of the Catholic church.

 

[Diana_Catherine]

I’m just gonna point this out, but you don’t have to be a traditionalist to hold to all the church teachings and realize that vatican II was not a break from previous church teachings. I know many good faithful Catholics who accept ***all ***of the Church’s teachings while still not being able to be labelled as a traditionalist. I think Wasserfall said it best, being a traditional Catholic is about following the traditions in place before the changes that followed Vatican II.

I agree. I also feel that a traditionalist doesn’t just accept all of the Church teachings throughout history but as Wasserfall said, follows those traditions.

I think maybe many reasons people don’t follow the traditions is because they stopped getting passed on and they don’t know what you are talking about.

In the real world, if you follow the teachings of the Catholic Church you will be called a traditional Catholic. Others will call you a conservative Catholic.

I work at our Parish, home school, attend Mass whenever possible (all Sundays and Holy Days), pray regularly, use NFP, go to an NFP only GYN. Here I am a normal, everyday Catholic. At my parish? I am VERY traditional.

I think that is stated very well.

It is the same for me. Some of the other things I find, at least in our parish, where there are many “traditional” Catholics are; parish novenas, some do wear headcoverings, staying for prayers after mass, devotions to the Sacred Heart of Jesus, consecration to Jesus through Mary, using sacramentals at home and more.

I think also there is a love for the ancient prayers that have been lost. I have many vintage Catholic missals and prayer books and todays prayers don’t hold a candle to them.

I, also believe it is rejecting the modern ideas and abuses that are found in society and sometimes in our parishes.

I have found that when posting on other portions of CAF, I am surprised at how many people defend modernist ideas, so I feel maybe that is why many come here to the trad threads.

 

[thewanderer]

So true. At least on CAF.

What do you think of this blog description?
fisheaters.com/ontraditionalcatholics.html

I think it certainly does an excellent job of describing traditionalists. But I am still not entirely happy with saying it is a definition of traditional Catholics.

First off, I think the distinction it makes between Traditional and traditional is extremely important to make and I was very happy to see it made explicitly. So often us non-traditionalists feel as though traditionalists view traditions as Tradition. However, there I think there are two different ways to be ‘traditional’. One is the view presented in this article

A traditional Catholic is someone that views the traditions of the Church not just as an optional extra to Catholicism but praciticing our faith and living our lives with the wisom passed on from our fathers in faith is a necessary and intrinsic part of Catholicism.

Of course, falling away from the infallible teachings of the Church is worse than falling away from the practices of the Church, but there is the idea that being a Catholic is not just about believing as the Church has believed but is also about worshipping God in the way the Church has passed down to us.

Tradition is a living thing that evoles, the way we practice our faith evolves but this evolution must take place with respect to what has gone before us and must build on it.

Maybe I’m misunderstanding this but it seems to be saying that religious practices from before Vatican II are not seen as optional, but are rather necessary for one to be a Catholic. Here’s the thing. Since this is not a teaching of the Church there are many people who love many of these traditions but do not view them as necessary to being a Catholic. They view them as wonderful aids and practices, but don’t think less of Catholics who do not use them, or view such Catholics as ‘not fully Catholic’. These Catholics still love and follow many such practices, and so are traditional, but do not fit in with traditionalists. Because of this they become offended that traditionalists want to deny them the title ‘traditional’. They follow all the teachings of the Church, read lives of the saints, use the baltimore Catechism, say the Rosary, go to adoration, frequent confession, use holy water, have holy water fonts in their homes, dress up for sunday Mass, receive Communion on the tongue, stay after Mass to pray, cross themselves when they pass a church, say a prayer when they pass a cemetary or see an ambulance, perform charitable works, say novenas, have a devotion to the sacred heart, have a great devotion for Our Lady of Fatima, hatethe idea of change for the sake of change and view such an idea as extremely dangerous etc. I could go on and on. Yet they are refused the title of traditional because they do not meet the standards that traditionalists have set up for this title.

I think I’ve figured out a better way to phrase the two different attidtudes towards traditions. One is that it is necessary to preserve them at all cost. The other is that they are very useful aids on our struggle to sainthood. These Catholics do not see the preservation of such practices their mission as Catholics, instead they see them as tools and aids for their own salvation. So they will not follow all of them, but those they personally find useful and will not be tempted to think less of any Catholic because they have different practices and traditions.

 

[CesarAugustus]

I think I’ve figured out a better way to phrase the two different attidtudes towards traditions. One is that it is necessary to preserve them at all cost, the other is that they are very useful aids on our struggle to sainthood.

And the two can happen at the same time too!

Blessings!

 

[TrueLight]

I think I’ve figured out a better way to phrase the two different attidtudes towards traditions. One is that it is necessary to preserve them at all cost. The other is that they are very useful aids on our struggle to sainthood. These Catholics do not see the preservation of such practices their mission as Catholics, instead they see them as tools and aids for their own salvation. So they will not follow all of them, but those they personally find useful and will not be tempted to think less of any Catholic because they have different practices and traditions.

[/INDENT]

I think I view the passing of the traditions as “Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi”. I see it as more than the mass, but also:

• the way we pray our private prayers
• which prayers we use
• the novenas, we pray
• the gestures we make at mass (striking our breasts)
• all those things shape what we believe
• our customs such as crossing ourselves when we pass the church (an acknowledgement of the real presence.)

Etc, etc.

All these things of ancient tradition, if not necessary, are so very important.

And for the most part, these traditions are what produced the Saints of old!

 

[thewanderer]

I agree. I also feel that a traditionalist doesn’t just accept all of the Church teachings throughout history but as Wasserfall said, follows those traditions.

I think maybe many reasons people don’t follow the traditions is because they stopped getting passed on and they don’t know what you are talking about.
(Snip)

I just want to make one correction. Church teachings are different from small t traditions. Church teachings are necessary and I know many faithful non-traditionalist Catholics who both accept and follow all of the Churches teachings even though they don’t practice all of the small t traditions and practices that people have practiced throughout the ages. To be honest, no one really does. There are too many to practice all of them, so people follow those they find personally helpful.

 

[thewanderer]

I think I view the passing of the traditions as “Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi”. I see it as more than the mass, but also:

• the way we pray our private prayers
• which prayers we use
• the novenas, we pray
• the gestures we make at mass (striking our breasts)
• all those things shape what we believe
• our customs such as crossing ourselves when we pass the church (an acknowledgement of the real presence.)

Etc, etc.

All these things of ancient tradition, if not necessary, are so very important.

And for the most part, these traditions are what produced the Saints of old!

I agree, they can be very helpful in growing in holiness, but that doesn’t mean that if one doesn’t follow such practices they can’t attain holiness, or even that it will necessarily be harder for them to attain holiness. What if they have other practices and ways of praying which work extremely well for them? Maybe traditionalists don’t actually believe these are necessary, but because of the way they speak they often come across as though they think that people who do not follow the particular practices they choose to follow are somehow ‘less Catholic’ because of it. They often come across as though they are judging either someones holiness or Catholic identity on which external actions they perform. I am sure they do not all actually believe this, but this is how they **often **come across to non-traditionalists. And non traditionalists end up feeling judged. It puts non-traditionalists on edge and makes them wary of traditionalists in general.