What is a Mormon?

[Stephen168]

… I find it…interesting that you think the Catholic church matches the description you gave.

Yes, it matches the description, I’ve been given by Mormons. It is the description held by 19th century American protestantism which is the source of the Book of Mormon.

 

[flyonthewall]

No, it is the dishonesty I object to.

True, and we will never try to hide the fact later.

The Mormon Church can call the Catholic Church whatever it wishes, just don’t be dishonest about the fact it does so.

There has been no dishonesty at all. We have maintained the same position from the begining. It is people like you that insist that is, or was our position, but it is not.
We have always stated that ALL churches have a portion of the truth.

Yes, it matches the description, I’ve been given by Mormons. It is the description held by 19th century American protestantism which is the source of the Book of Mormon.

That may be the position of 19th century American protestantism, but that has nothing to do with us. All I can say is you are absolutely wrong to claim the source of the Book of Mormon is American protestantism. There seems to be a desperate need for it to be though.

I realize that you have come to a conclusion about my faith, but based on the statements you make about my faith, your conclusion is founded on either misunderstandings or falsehoods.

 

[vickimonica]

My prayers will be with you. There’s not many worse situations to be in than the one you’re in right now.

I would like to suggest to you that for now, find a traditional looking Catholic church (one that looks like this or this, as opposed to this or [this](http://www.cityknown.com/Ma(name removed by moderator)hotos/003/Attractions/1541755549615820.jpg)), and spend some time on your knees praying. Look for the red candle, as the blessed Eucharist, what Catholics believe to be the body, blood soul and divinity of Christ, is traditionally laid in repose in a tabernacle very close to the red candle. I think you’ll find the experience quite illuminating.

Drop the “Dear Heavenly Father, we thank you for this nice day” rote Mormon prayer and just speak from your heart. Tell God your fears, and your love for Him, and your desire to do his will. Ask for his guidance, and thank him for his grace in the precious blood of his Crucifixion. As a Mormon, I’m sure you haven’t had a lot of experience with mediating on Christ’s passion, but simply looking at a beautiful cross can help with understanding what it is that Christ actually did for us when He was here. Then just sit there, quietly, in His presence and listen for a while. That part is the hard part for me and I’m nowhere near as good at it as I’d like to be, but it’s very important. And it’s not something I learned from being a Mormon.

I’ll keep you in my prayers - you have an amazingly difficult journey coming up.

Also, uncross your arms while praying. As a former mormon, I still do not understand why they cross their arms when they pray…

 

[vickimonica]

I didn’t say anything uncharitable.

I agree 100%. I have been on this forum on and off for about a year. As a former mormon, I feel that Rebecca is extremely thorough and to the point in all of her explanations. Very knowledgeable in the mormon faith…

 

[flyonthewall]

Also, uncross your arms while praying. As a former mormon, I still do not understand why they cross their arms when they pray…

There is a two-fold reason. 1) it is a form of reverence. 2) it helps little children to be reverent during prayer.
There is nothing that says we must fold our arms during prayer, it is simply a hold over from childhood. Many people simply continue it because it is habit.
We also are taught to bow our heads and close our eyes during prayer.

 

[Serap]

I agree 100%. I have been on this forum on and off for about a year. As a former mormon, I feel that Rebecca is extremely thorough and to the point in all of her explanations. Very knowledgeable in the mormon faith…

Well I think that a former LDS feels more passionately about things and their tone may come across as condescending, not truth. That’s what I meant. I didn’t want this thread to turn into a mud tossing event like other threads I often see on CAF.

It can easily head that way and I really want to learn about Mormonism out of curiousity without any mud tossing between Catholics and Mormons.

I have no desire to become Mormon; I am just curious.

 

[Serap]

Rebecca,
So as a child, you were taught from day 1, that the CC was evil? Are most Mormons taught this amongst their families?

 

[rainman10]

There has been no dishonesty at all. We have maintained the same position from the begining. It is people like you that insist that is, or was our position, but it is not.
We have always stated that ALL churches have a portion of the truth.

That may be the position of 19th century American protestantism, but that has nothing to do with us. All I can say is you are absolutely wrong to claim the source of the Book of Mormon is American protestantism. There seems to be a desperate need for it to be though.

I realize that you have come to a conclusion about my faith, but based on the statements you make about my faith, your conclusion is founded on either misunderstandings or falsehoods.

Where in official Mormon teaching/literature does it state that Mormons have always believed that ALL churches have a portion of the truth? Was this a “new revelation”?

 

[JeanMichel]

I want to say that this was not meant to feed a Mormon paranoia and if I offended any Mormons on this thread, I am truly sorry. I am not here to offend. I am here to learn about the Mormon faith as (up until now), I have known very little about it.

I have met many anti-Catholics in my life…and I have met some anti-Mormons. It takes a very insecure person to go out of their way to trash the beliefs of the Catholic Church, but for some reason there are groups that are designed for just that purpose. Alas, we see the same thing take place against the Mormon church. What is odd is that the Catholic Church is the largest in the world, but the Mormons are a very small group. I frankly don’t understand the animosity or the twisting of their beliefs that goes on.

For me they belief in the Jesus that hung on the cross and bled for each of us. That is enough for me to call them Christian. Do they have some beliefs that are different? Of course, but I firmly believe that God is guiding each of us into a fuller understanding of Him and His Grace. Enough said.

 

[Serap]

I have met many anti-Catholics in my life…and I have met some anti-Mormons. It takes a very insecure person to go out of their way to trash the beliefs of the Catholic Church, but for some reason there are groups that are designed for just that purpose. Alas, we see the same thing take place against the Mormon church. What is odd is that the Catholic Church is the largest in the world, but the Mormons are a very small group. I frankly don’t understand the animosity or the twisting of their beliefs that goes on.

For me they belief in the Jesus that hung on the cross and bled for each of us. That is enough for me to call them Christian. Do they have some beliefs that are different? Of course, but I firmly believe that God is guiding each of us into a fuller understanding of Him and His Grace. Enough said.

Enough said???

Fantastically said!!!

Many Catholics come on this site and make a statement that comes across as being condescending and then say, “it’s truth” they are speaking; as though to justify their arrogant remarks.

Why can’t we respect that all of us are seeking to understand Him and love Him bc he died for us and sacrificed Himself for us.

I am not Mormon and never will be, but I have a lot of respect for Mormon’s b/c their religion takes a great deal of sacrifice, reference and committment, just as being Catholic does.

 

[rainman10]

I have met many anti-Catholics in my life…and I have met some anti-Mormons. It takes a very insecure person to go out of their way to trash the beliefs of the Catholic Church, but for some reason there are groups that are designed for just that purpose. Alas, we see the same thing take place against the Mormon church. What is odd is that the Catholic Church is the largest in the world, but the Mormons are a very small group. I frankly don’t understand the animosity or the twisting of their beliefs that goes on.

For me they belief in the Jesus that hung on the cross and bled for each of us. That is enough for me to call them Christian. Do they have some beliefs that are different? Of course, but I firmly believe that God is guiding each of us into a fuller understanding of Him and His Grace. Enough said.

So when Catholics convert to Mormonism, you believe that God is guiding Catholics into converting into Mormonism to gain a fuller understanding of Him and His Grace?? I don’t understand. If the Catholic Church is the One True Church, why would God guide any Catholic to the Mormon church? Are you sure it is God that is doing the guiding here?

 

[Serap]

So when Catholics convert to Mormonism, you believe that God is guiding Catholics into converting into Mormonism to gain a fuller understanding of Him and His Grace?? I don’t understand. If the Catholic Church is the One True Church, why would God guide any Catholic to the Mormon church? Are you sure it is God that is doing the guiding here?

why do YOU think the devil or a demon is guiding a person to a Mormon church? why don’t you just come out and say it

every church thinks that they are the true church. a lot of it is what we grow up with.

 

[Stephen168]

So when Catholics convert to Mormonism, you believe that God is guiding Catholics into converting into Mormonism to gain a fuller understanding of Him and His Grace?? I don’t understand. If the Catholic Church is the One True Church, why would God guide any Catholic to the Mormon church? Are you sure it is God that is doing the guiding here?

If one believes; it is right to believe that killing an unborn child is murder, and it is just as right to believe it is not murder, you have relative truth. Mormonism, Catholicism, Buddhism, it doesn’t matter. If one believes there is no truth, then any story is good enough. And if they want to change their story, that is OK, too. There is no real truth. A claim is as good as fact. That is their world, not ours.

 

[rainman10]

why do YOU think the devil or a demon is guiding a person to a Mormon church? why don’t you just come out and say it

every church thinks that they are the true church. a lot of it is what we grow up with.

Well, why would God lead anyone away from His Church? Don’t you believe you are a member of God’s One True Church? Do you think protestantism came from God? Is it God who believes in divide and conquer? YES, it is my opinion that the devil guides people away from God’s One True Church.

 

[SteveVH]

why do YOU think the devil or a demon is guiding a person to a Mormon church? why don’t you just come out and say it

every church thinks that they are the true church. a lot of it is what we grow up with.

One Mormon poster (not sure if it is on this thread) stated that the same Spirit that led him to the Catholic Church also led him to the Mormon Church. Regardless of the criteria you use to determine if one qualifies as a “Christian”, Catholicism and Mormonism could not be further apart. The Catholic Church, officially, does not consider the LDS Church to be Christian. It does not even refer to their beliefs as heretical, but an entirely different religion altogether. That is why we do not accept their baptisms.

So the point is, we must be dealing with a very confused “Spirit” who would lead one first to the Catholic Church and then away from the Catholic Church to the LDS Church, or we are speaking of two different “spirits”. So I have no problem stating that I believe that those led to the Mormon Church are being led by the enemy, or by those who are being led by the enemy (same difference). We are in a spiritual battle and the enemy wishes to lead us away from the truth, which I believe is the Catholic Church, and at a minimum, at least one that believes in the central tenants of Christianity. There is only one spirit that desires to lead us away, so do the math.

 

[Serap]

One Mormon poster (not sure if it is on this thread) stated that the same Spirit that led him to the Catholic Church also led him to the Mormon Church. Regardless of the criteria you use to determine if one qualifies as a “Christian”, Catholicism and Mormonism could not be further apart. The Catholic Church, officially, does not consider the LDS Church to be Christian. It does not even refer to their beliefs as heretical, but an entirely different religion altogether. That is why we do not accept their baptisms.

So the point is, we must be dealing with a very confused “Spirit” who would lead one first to the Catholic Church and then away from the Catholic Church to the LDS Church, or we are speaking of two different “spirits”. So I have no problem stating that I believe that those led to the Mormon Church are being led by the enemy, or by those who are being led by the enemy (same difference). We are in a spiritual battle and the enemy wishes to lead us away from the truth, which I believe is the Catholic Church, and at a minimum, at least one that believes in the central tenants of Christianity. There is only one spirit that desires to lead us away, so do the math.

I don’t know if I entirely agree. Some people need to feel part of something special and so one church is better for them than another.

I had a friend who was on fire for Christ and he brought me to his church. I left after 5 minutes b/c I thought it was just crazy. To my friend, it wasn’t crazy…he felt like he was part of something very important. I find it hard to believe that Satan was leading him around when he was so on fire for Christ.

Being a Mormon is a huge committment and they are committed to loving Christ; not in the same way that we do.

 

[351inside]

This is what i came up with

lifeafter.org/

After reading some of J. smiths beliefs you can clearly see he contradicts The Bible a whole lot.

 

[SteveVH]

I don’t know if I entirely agree. Some people need to feel part of something special and so one church is better for them than another.

I had a friend who was on fire for Christ and he brought me to his church. I left after 5 minutes b/c I thought it was just crazy. To my friend, it wasn’t crazy…he felt like he was part of something very important. I find it hard to believe that Satan was leading him around when he was so on fire for Christ.

Being a Mormon is a huge committment and they are committed to loving Christ; not in the same way that we do.

Lets make an assumption here for argument’s sake. Lets assume that the Catholic Church is correct in that salvation is a life-long process and not a one time decision (once saved, always saved).

So you have a Christian, on fire for Christ, who believes he is saved because he sincerely prayed the “sinner’s prayer”. Later in life he falls into temptation and has an extra-marital affair. Believing he is saved, regardless, he does not confess this very serious sin (nor does he have the opporunity since he doesn’t believe in confession not does he have a priest to absolve him).

Do you think the enemy might want people to believe in “once saved always saved” if it would prevent them from receiving absolution? The devil is very, very subtle. He whispers the things we want to hear and twists the truth so that, while appearing truthful and reasonable, we are actually being led away from truth.

I don’t think there are any Mormons who wake up in the morning desiring to follow Satan. I think they are being led, slowly and subtley away from the truth that Christ imparted to the Apostles and I believe they are in great spiritual danger. They have rejected the revealed truth of the nature of God and His Church and have replaced it with a man-made forgery which they call a “restoration”. Its genesis, however, is found in the evil one. That’s just my personal belief.

 

[ParkerD]

…They have rejected the revealed truth of the nature of God and His Church and have replaced it with a “man-made forgery” which they call a “restoration”…

Hi, SteveVH,

“The revealed truth of the nature of God” must be directly found in the Bible (I assume since that is where the revealed truths Catholics believe are found–if I have understood correctly).

So, that particular and specific “revealed truth” will be something you will no doubt be easily able to present using the Bible, in context with the entire set of verses where that specific “revealed truth” is found, and in context with all of the other teachings of the Bible that describe God and that describe or testify of the Savior, the Promised Messiah who is the Son of David, the Redeemer and the Rock of salvation, Emmanuel, the Great I Am, the Good Shepherd.

 

[SteveVH]

Hi, SteveVH,

“The revealed truth of the nature of God” must be directly found in the Bible (I assume since that is where the revealed truths Catholics believe are found–if I have understood correctly).

So, that particular and specific “revealed truth” will be something you will no doubt be easily able to present using the Bible, in context with the entire set of verses where that specific “revealed truth” is found, and in context with all of the other teachings of the Bible that describe God and that describe or testify of the Savior, the Promised Messiah who is the Son of David, the Redeemer and the Rock of salvation, Emmanuel, the Great I Am, the Good Shepherd.

This revealed truth existed in the Church prior to being recorded in the Bible as evidenced by the writings of the ECF’s prior to 382 AD. The Church possessed the Apostolic teachings from its inception. Remember, the Church pre-dates the New Testament by nearly 400 years. Our Church did not come from the Bible, the Bible came from the Church. It is a Catholic document, the New Testament being written by Catholics.

Nevertheless, the Trinity is found in the Bible as you are abundantly aware. You choose to interpret it as meaning “one in will and purpose” rather than “one in being” but the passages are the same so I see no need in spending the time and going through the exercise of proving this to you when you are already aware of the passages but choose to place a different meaning on the words.